Experts are making mistakes too. My point is that some people seem to underestimate Juve's bosses, they've been quite good at judging players and have build really strong teams with a fraction of what some English teams have paid for players. If there is a huge gap in the evaluation of Dybala and Lukaku between the fans on here and Juventus bosses, and there clearly is one, chances are the Juve bosses are closer to the truth. That said, I still think that it will be a good deal but I'd be surprised if Dybala is as good as most people expect and does much better than Lukaku. He is overrated and Lukaku underrated. Juve bosses seem to think so. Otherwise, they would want huge money for him. Let's hope they are making the mistake that Roma did with Salah. They are good in the market but not faultless. Really hope Dybala comes and is outstanding.
Juventuz goes into meltdown
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Experts are making mistakes too. My point is that some people seem to underestimate Juve's bosses, they've been quite good at judging players and have build really strong teams with a fraction of what some English teams have paid for players. If there is a huge gap in the evaluation of Dybala and Lukaku between the fans on here and Juventus bosses, and there clearly is one, chances are the Juve bosses are closer to the truth. That said, I still think that it will be a good deal but I'd be surprised if Dybala is as good as most people expect and does much better than Lukaku. He is overrated and Lukaku underrated. Juve bosses seem to think so. Otherwise, they would want huge money for him. Let's hope they are making the mistake that Roma did with Salah. They are good in the market but not faultless. Really hope Dybala comes and is outstanding.
We don't need Juventus team to tell us how awful Lukaku was. They are offloading Dybala as he doesn't fit the style of play and they need 9 and failed to sign Icardi.
If we accept they are right everytime then we should stop questioning managers like Jose who won shit loads of trophies and was among the best managers in last 20 years. We don't have to follow everything blindly.
Dybala is much better player and this is deal that is convenient for both teams. They want to offload who doesn't suit their game, we want to offload player who doesn't the style of play Ole wants to play.
I agree with this.
If you look at it plainly: Lukaku is being lambasted and undervalued immensely relative to his ability.
Also, going by the mass hysteria from social media on how bad this deal is for Juve; you’d think it was Maradona being exchanged for Bebe or something when in reality both players are about the same level, but with different skill sets. Dybala is a difficult player to accommodate tactically as evidenced by his last season and the doubts the new coach has over him. I’m still not certain where he best plays. He’s neither a winger nor a striker. He’s not quick enough to be the former and struggled in that role under allegri last season - often being nullified. He’s not creative enough to be a #10 either. His best attribute for me is his deadly strike with his left boot. His shooting technique with that leg is incredible. Beyond that, I don’t see what’s really that special about him. He isn’t a good playmaker nor a great dribbler. No idea how he’d fit in at United or adjust to the premier league.
Don’t get me wrong I’d still prefer him to Lukaku but the difference isn’t as substantial as some make it seem otherwise there would be big offers from other clubs for the Argentine.
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Is Ole planning to play him as a striker or some how inbehind Rashford? I said when we were linked with him that I realy liked him as a player but its getting the best out of him in a second striker role that I wasnt sure how he would fit in.
Dybala would play in the Lingard position or on the right.
How would they set-up with Lukaku in the side?
I presume it would be Ronaldo on the left, Lukaku in the middle and Bernardeschi on the right. Until Sarri realise that Mandzukic is still a better option than the Belgian, that is.
Guys take your serious discussion to another thread
Szczeny
Cancelo De Ligt Bonucci De-Sciglio
Rabiot Pjanic Matuidi
Bernardeschi Mandzukic Ronaldo
Cancelo De Ligt Bonucci De-Sciglio
Rabiot Pjanic Matuidi
Bernardeschi Mandzukic Ronaldo
Is Lingard not on the right? This is where he has a problem, to get the best out of Dybala he needs to Ben played through the middle, centre forward or second striker. Despite what everyone seems to be saying he hasn’t played wide that much throughout his career. He has started less than 20 games out wide and even less from midfield.
Ole wants us to have a fluid interchangeable attack, so it doesn't matter what position the players start if they can properly adjust their position throughout the games depending on the phase. He's already name dropped the Argentinian in an interview about obvious modern forwards, so there definitely is a plan on how to use him.
Besides, so far we have played a 4-2-3-1 formation so there are ways to accommodate all of Rashford, Martial and Dybala. I think we will be more flexible in the difficult games, especially away from home, where we still might use the 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2, which again suits everybody.
Who is the equivalent of marukomu for this thread? And more importantly where are the meltdown gifs.
Presumably he would sit on the newly reinforced Juve bench.
In these dangerous times I think he will also double as Ronaldo's bodyguard, given he's a unit.
IMO they really should use Dybala as a CF that can also drop deep and playmake, similarly to RVP.
Cancelo is rumoured to be off to City in a deal involving Danilo going the other way.
Imagine swapping Cancelo & Dybala for Lukaku & Danilo
Being part of a fluid front three is simply unrealistic given how Dybala has actually been utilized in his career. He is a second striker.
The entire reason that Sarri seems to want him out is precisely that he is not a good fit as a RW or as a false nine in a fluid 4-3-3 (I realize Ole mentioned him as a false 9 in some off the cuff comment, that just shows his ignorance of the player to be honest as Dybala has never played that role). If Sarri thought Dybala could play those roles, he'd obviously keep him given his talents, age, and popularity among the supporters. Sarri made a center forward out of Dries Mertens and even used Hazard at times in that role. The fact that he doesn't even want to try with Dybala speaks volumes.
Dybala's problem is that he's a little slow. And given his small stature, he'll probably struggle a bit adjusting to the premier league imo.
Why are none of the Dybala/Juventus-related threads being used to discuss what the title says?
Like David Silva, Eriksen, Bernardo Silva, Mata etc?
A little slow AND doesn't have the dribbling skills, passing or playmaking capacity of those players. They are all midfielders. Dybala is NOT.
He's not that kind of player at all. He's not great in small spaces, at playing the final ball or at controlling the tempo of midfield. Not great at pressing either. He's a great player but he needs the right setup. Not adaptable enough to play in different systems and styles of play while mantaining the level of performances.
Trying to sell Dybala and Cancelo is somewhat understandable for Juve as their valuation is bigger than what their performances justify. The problem in all this for Juve is that they're looking at Danilo and Lukaku as replacements which doesn't make sense at all.
Juventus really giving their quality away for no reason.
Goodness me! What on Earth are they doing giving away their good players for average shite?
Dybala for Lukaku, Cancelo for Danilo. What’s next? Alex Sandro for Monreal?
If that happens I will sell a expired Cig to Sarri or whoever responsible for that.
Joke aside I don’t think that Juve will do something that stupid. At the end we always win by buying and selling. I hope we don’t let anyone out including Dybala.
He is faster than most of them I named, especially Mata and look how good he was for the first few years of arriving in the PL.
Dybala has better dribbling than all of them in my opinion, just a different style of dribbling.
He is a number 10, all 4 of them I listed are number 10’s or were at one point. David Silva has been moved back due to Pep’s style and Mata hasn’t played their often enough lately. Just because they are different style of players doesn’t mean they don’t occupy the same area or did.
Oh yeah of course, he is a different type of player to them, but I was replying to the guy above saying he is too slow and weak to succeed in the PL. The players mentioned are exactly that and have been successes in the PL.
No one would pay 30 million for Danilo, hopefully Juve are aware of that fact.
If Juventus sign a top No.10 (Eriksen/James/...) they would be really good in the Champions League. They already have a strong defense and a talented midfield. Any idea what formation are they going to use?
He's a better dribbler than all of them except perhaps B. Silva
Agree with this post except the bit where you say he isn't good in small spaces.
Haven't watched them in pre-season, but Sarri's favourite formation seems to be a 4-3-3. Both Eriksen and James could play as the most advanced midfielder, but I don't think they need either, considering they've got Pjanic, Rabiot and Ramsey as their first choice options.
Dybala seems the only good player to me in this whole Juve current ruours. Lukaku is as awful a signing for them at that price as it was for us....and some said he was better than Ibrahimovic after a couple of goals early on, ridiculous. Darmian would do far better at Juve than here but still not be above average and Cancelo is very much the type of modern full back I cant stand many seem to rave about much like people wanting the Belgium full back at PSG over Bissaka. Cancelo is really poor defensively, positioning is awful and he is quick but he cant even tackle well, massively over rated, actually shocked City are in for him, Walker isnt getting any younger but he is a much better full back and I think he is over rated too
He isn't close to B.Silva or D.Silva in close control and dribbling. That's just simply wrong. He's a better dribbler than Mata and Eriksen though but that isn't saying much. What made those two succeed in the premier league isn't really Dybala's strengths. He's a forward.
D.Silva is a better dribbler too and the main point wasn't about dribbling.
His passing is one of his best attributes. I'd argue that he's better than Eriksen, Mata and Bernardo Silva in that regard, or at least on par. He's also a much better at dribbling than Eriksen and Mata.
You are talking about dribbling in tight spaces as if that is the only style of dribbling.
Not comparing Dybala to C.Ronaldo here but for example, Ronaldo in his prime was a better dribbler than most players in the world but he had a different dribbling style to the likes of David Silva.
Neymar isn’t the same style dribbler as Bernardo Silva but is just as effective.
I think Dybala is a bigger risk taker when he dribbles. He's more of a threat and more willing to take defenders on 1v1, whereas the others are more likely to look to maintain possession or play somebody else in behind.
What’s he great at then?Cancelo is extremely inconsistent, and very decent chance he will be a Danilo level player.
Pep is not exactly at great at these signings either.
Pep is not exactly at great at these signings either.
Last season he had 50 succesful dribbles to 41 unsuccessful ones in the league. For comparison Bernardo Silva had 49 to 39 (despite playing roughly 700 minutes more), David Silva had 31 to 15 (playing 300 minutes more), Eriksen had 18 successful and 18 unsuccessful dribbles (playing 600 minutes more), Mata had 10 successful dribbles to 7 unsuccesful dribbles (playing 900 minutes less than Dybala). And that was an underwhelming season for Dybala, the season before he completed 93 dribbles and had 36 unsuccesful ones.
As for maintaing possession, he's similar to Mata and Bernardo Silva, in that he roughly plays around the same amount of passes per game in a season. It's around 40 passes per game for them. Eriksen plays more than them, while he has the worst completion rate of the lot. David Silva obviously has the most passes per game. Last few seasons Dybala completed 89.3 percent, 87.3 percent and 85.4 percent of his passes, improving every single season. For comparison the last 3 seasons for the others: David Silva; 87.8, 88.9, 87.2, Bernardo Silva; 86.1, 87, 81.1, Eriksen; 81, 82.4, 80.2, Mata; 86, 86.7, 89.7.
Furthermore, knowing that, from open play he had 49 key passes last season and the season before that he had 53 key passes. Again for comparison: David Silva; 73 and 61, Bernardo Silva; 69 and 57 (choose his final season for Monace here), Eriksen; 67 and 91 (playing almost 900 minutes more though), Mata (choose 14/15 and 15/16, since he didn't reach 2000 minutes the following seasons); 52 and 48.
As far as possession loss goes, he had 71 unsuccessful touches last season and was dispossessed 43 times, the season before it was 77 and 65. For comparison again: David Silva; 28/30 and 32/29, Bernardo Silva; 44/37 and 72/74 (choose his final season at Monaco again due to his minutes in his first season for City), Eriksen; 61/29 and 75/72, Mata (again, his first 2 seasons for United here, since he played more minutes); 32/54 and 26/40.
I think it's fair to say that the others play more final balls or somebody in behind, as you put it, especially Eriksen, at the same time, Eriksen takes a lot more risks with his passing, while Dybala doesn't need to shy away from the comparison in terms of keeping possession. Since his role is slightly different, it's not really surprising that he plays fewer key passes, gets dispossessed more and has more unsuccessful touches. Then again Bernardo Silva had similar numbers at Monaco and Eriksen, especially the season before last, as well. In terms of success rate for dribbles, David Silva and Bernardo Silva come close to him, while they attempt significantly fewer dribbles under Guardiola.
In conclusion, I think your assessment is fair, except for the maintaining possession part.
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