Real demonstrated incredible resilience to win the trophy, but both City and Liverpool should have put them away. I can see where he is coming from, but the fact is neither English team finished the job. When you're on top you must make it count.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Phleez - Real were very comfortable last night. I thought they would suffer the press, and generally teams under pressure tend to make mistakes, miss passes, hoof the ball.
Real did none of that, they were pinging passes in tight spaces, recycling the ball and didn't seem hurried at all. Real are by design the type of team that are happy to absorb pressure, play on the margin, and then hit you on the counter. It's happened time and time again to be a coincidence.
I'd say the English team that gave them the most trouble was Chelsea - they're the most 'continental' English team.
TAA > Carvajal, if that is who you are referring to.
What about City, with a two goal lead in the final minute? Real showed great character, but both City and Liverpool outplayed them. You have to take your chances.
I’d rather have a Right back that can also defend.
you best wait a year, it's not really been a good ending and they're stretching it out for another series next year
Need to watch the last season. AoT is GOAT level good.
City over two legs, maybe.
But they weren't outplayed by any means yesterday. Yes, they had many shots on target, but the Real defense was comfortable for the most part. Its not as if they were hanging on for their lives till the end. They managed the game well after the first 25 mins or so.
Carvajal's defending is also suspect. Anyone who has seen more than 1 Madrid game this season would know this
Trents defending has always been garbage though and he got exposed constantly last season when he didn’t have VVD marshalling the defence.
+ Casemiro's chance where he inexplicably squared it behind
+ the Arsenal loanee towards the end that should have scored
It’s going turn out like Wenger. Great for the first few years, then faded badly. I don’t think he will be able to rebuild after losing the core of the team. This team has one more season. He should have walked after that.
The comeback against City was dramatic and all, but I thought Chelsea matched up so well against them and had them on the run in Bernabeu. That was a cnut of a comeback
Regardless, we're talking about Liverpool here and it was by far Real's easiest game against English oppo.
But Real were still second best, as 24-3 shots demonstrates. Thankfully, they prevailed, but we can't rely on the Scousers misfiring all the time; we can't have another 1970s/1980s. We must now look to ourselves.
Some 20 yr olds might :-)
He has 44 assists in the league in the last 4 seasons. Any reasonable fan would think there’s a case for him being the best right back in the world. It’s only on the Caf where that’s considered such an outlandish opinion.
That's true, but not many teams can do that so beautifully though. It's not the first time Klopp has complained about long balls, he does this to every team who dares to try bypass his midfield and I find it a little arrogant.
It doesn't
It does. But for an amazing goalkeeping performance, Real would have been well beaten.
OK mate - most of the shots were routine; I count 2 WC saves, one against Mane and one against Salah
But since we're in the world of hypotheticals, had it not been for a controversial ref decision Real Madrid would be 1-0 at halftime
Had it not been for a silly Casemiro pass or a Ceballos indecision in front of Alisson it would have been 2-0
In all honesty, Klopp got schooled by Ancelotti. Liverpool's Klopp does not seem able to break a low block - it's been a problem for them all season long (hence not being able to beat any of the top 4 sides this season - 2 lucky draws with City, 4 draws with Chelsea, 2 draws with Spurs, 0 goals in 330 minutes of finals), but sure take the shots advantage, I'm sure it's dampened Madrid's celebrations today
The point is we can't keep relying on Liverpool to mess up. Without getting bogged down in minutiae, they should have won last night. Klopp will keep coming back for more, so we need to be ready. They have reached three CL finals in five years; we aren't even in the competition. We have so much work to do.OK mate - most of the shots were routine; I count 2 WC saves, one against Mane and one against Salah
But since we're in the world of hypotheticals, had it not been for a controversial ref decision Real Madrid would be 1-0 at halftime
Had it not been for a silly Casemiro pass or a Ceballos indecision in front of Alisson it would have been 2-0
In all honesty, Klopp got schooled by Ancelotti. Liverpool's Klopp does not seem able to break a low block - it's been a problem for them all season long (hence not being able to beat any of the top 4 sides this season - 2 lucky draws with City, 4 draws with Chelsea, 2 draws with Spurs, 0 goals in 330 minutes of finals), but sure take the shots advantage, I'm sure it's dampened Madrid's celebrations today
Those 5 minutes where we 3-0 up at the Bernabeu was literally the highlight of my season. I was on cloud 9
To be honest i think most teams kind of outplayed Real throughout the competition. PSG should have beaten them too kind of.
They've been a pretty weird case this season. They'll be outplayed and have no control of the match for 70+ minutes and concede a good few chances and often a few goals. They just create a lot of chances in the 5 minutes they're on top and are insanely clinical. Benzema's form is hard to maintain.
I thought they looked comfortable last night, and calm and professional. But Courtois made way too many great saves to say thats actually true. They just always look that way. I don't think liverpool were particularly good last night mind you, kind of wasteful and feckless.
They've been a pretty weird case this season. They'll be outplayed and have no control of the match for 70+ minutes and concede a good few chances and often a few goals. They just create a lot of chances in the 5 minutes they're on top and are insanely clinical. Benzema's form is hard to maintain.
I thought they looked comfortable last night, and calm and professional. But Courtois made way too many great saves to say thats actually true. They just always look that way. I don't think liverpool were particularly good last night mind you, kind of wasteful and feckless.
Klopp is a brilliant manager who has done great things with the vermin
I think this team is largely at the end of its peak though. I wonder if the owners have the intention to fund another big summer and get 3-4 big signings done. If not then I think they'll not be within 10 points of city next season
I think this team is largely at the end of its peak though. I wonder if the owners have the intention to fund another big summer and get 3-4 big signings done. If not then I think they'll not be within 10 points of city next season
Italian manager wins it the Italian way perhaps?
Try it this way. Italy which is well known for their defense/defensive play, their goalkeeping has a history of excellence too. The reality is that goalkeeping is also vital part of the defense art.
The total football principle may place more expectation on sweeping, and distribution than actually shot stopping, doesn't mean that is the best goalkeeping standard. Same can say about the style. Dominating many metric, but not be able to take exhaust your opposition mentally and physically then got suckered punch.
It's sport. Else where end up watch computer generated stimulation with hard set standard.
Assists aside, isn’t he meant to be a defender ? Which I’m pretty sure in the job description entails stopping balls going into your own net which he is patently shit at…best right back in the world
your defence of him is borderline ridiculous..nope, it’s batshit crazy
It’s 2022. A full back’s primary job for top teams is offensive. You’re not living in the real word if you think otherwise.Assists aside, isn’t he meant to be a defender ? Which I’m pretty sure in the job description entails stopping balls going into your own net which he is patently shit at…best right back in the world
nope, it’s batshit crazy
If his defensive deficiencies cost his team 4-5 goals per season but he contributes to 15 either by assisting or other offensive contributions (scoring, pass before the assist, overlapping runs that free up space for Salah et al), do you not see the net positive in that equation? I mean, compare that to AWB who contributes to 3-4 goals per season but is also liable for 3-4 goals per season by being unable to hold an offside line and mark at the back post. Would you still go with AWB because he's primarily a defender?Assists aside, isn’t he meant to be a defender ? Which I’m pretty sure in the job description entails stopping balls going into your own net which he is patently shit at…best right back in the world
nope, it’s batshit crazy
Serious shortage of world class right backs the moment then. I'd put a fit and healthy Walker over him any time. He can also attack, it doesn't have to be one or the other.
It wont be too much of a stretch to say Real had a Euro-Greece like run this CL. They were absolutely second best in all their 4 games against PSG, Chelsea, City and Liverpool. Don't let the dipper-hate cloud common sense and make them seem like some Messiah. They were absolutely dominated yesterday. If we go just by yesterday's account, Benzema, Modric, Vini had literally zero impact. The game's best players were the GK (Court), RB(Caravajal), DM (Casemiro in the 2nd half) and the GOAL POST. Rest of them were pathetic. The football gods were kind to us and all our suffering and prayers were answered in the form of an inspired Courtois and his wonder-saves.
One of the poorest CL winners since Chelsea 2012, Liverpool 2005. Great run of results, yes, very lucky will be the right verdict.
One of the poorest CL winners since Chelsea 2012, Liverpool 2005. Great run of results, yes, very lucky will be the right verdict.
Minutiae like... What football is about?
Same. He doesn’t seem to be the most clinical or even have an eye for goal. He’s incredible at getting the ball forward but his best attributes are probably best utilized when he’s playing next to a CF.
Don’t think anyone is saying Real were amazing. Think all Utd fans are just relieved they just won. If Liverpool were better and unlucky, I don’t really give a feck!
Not really. At the moment you’ve got Trent, Walker, Cancelo, Reece James, Kimmich (plays in midfield now but he was amazing there), Carvajal and Hakimi. Sounds pretty stacked to me.
In full kit, no doubt
20 years? Shit man, that's jonnowhite levels of dedication.
He's lost 4 out of 5 in European finals. Not a great record.
Liverpool were better between the boxes, but only Mane's shot that Courtois hit the post on was near the quality of final pass/strike that Valverde's game winning assist was. The Madrid defenders and Casemiro had strong games. Also the disallowed goal was genuinely 50/50 to be one, which basically equals the Mane post moment.
I'd say play the game 10 times and it's something like Liverpool win 5, 3 draws and 2 Madrid wins, so I can see why Liverpool feel a bit aggrieved, but Courtois is the keeper on the biggest team in the world because he can have games like this, not for his ability to sweep or pass, so it's kind of meaningless to say "their keeper won it for them." He's a De Gea type, not an Allison/Ederson type, and if one of the latter sets up a goal you don't go "well their keeper had an assist."
Honestly seems like another game where Klopp/Liverpool's failure to get a really quality match winning midfielder doomed them in Europe. 90M pounds on Keita and Oxlade-Chamberlain and it's the one real hole in the squad. They use their midfielders as workers and let TAA do the creating, and it mostly works brilliantly obviously, so I'm not suggesting they buy a Riquelme type, but it is the one obvious hole in their squad, and obviously when their chief rivals have Kevin De Bruyne it's hard not to see it.
Wouldn't blame Klopp, though, aside from him being the one to push for Keita I assume? His team created more, he didn't make any particularly bad calls in the first XI or subs and one piece of magic from of Salah or TAA instead of a bunch of 7/10 deliveries and they probably win it.
I'd say play the game 10 times and it's something like Liverpool win 5, 3 draws and 2 Madrid wins, so I can see why Liverpool feel a bit aggrieved, but Courtois is the keeper on the biggest team in the world because he can have games like this, not for his ability to sweep or pass, so it's kind of meaningless to say "their keeper won it for them." He's a De Gea type, not an Allison/Ederson type, and if one of the latter sets up a goal you don't go "well their keeper had an assist."
Honestly seems like another game where Klopp/Liverpool's failure to get a really quality match winning midfielder doomed them in Europe. 90M pounds on Keita and Oxlade-Chamberlain and it's the one real hole in the squad. They use their midfielders as workers and let TAA do the creating, and it mostly works brilliantly obviously, so I'm not suggesting they buy a Riquelme type, but it is the one obvious hole in their squad, and obviously when their chief rivals have Kevin De Bruyne it's hard not to see it.
Wouldn't blame Klopp, though, aside from him being the one to push for Keita I assume? His team created more, he didn't make any particularly bad calls in the first XI or subs and one piece of magic from of Salah or TAA instead of a bunch of 7/10 deliveries and they probably win it.
No one said shite, I said these players aren’t elite or amazing, they’re perfect for a system but can’t get you over the line when you need a goal, in let’s say, a cup final for example.
I think the best 11 in world football is a massive stretch. VVD is the only one I’d say has a shout for any world 11.
I know he's hurting real bad inside.