Still early in the week isn't it, bet Matip will be risked.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
@Klopper76 I am late to comment but this TAA argument is a little bizarre. Just because he won the league and CL doesn’t mean he is better than any player who hasn’t won it.
I mean Wes Brown for example had a really great season with us in 2008 when we won both trophies. Still that doesn’t make him a better player / talent than Rashford/Greenwood.
I mean Wes Brown for example had a really great season with us in 2008 when we won both trophies. Still that doesn’t make him a better player / talent than Rashford/Greenwood.
Does Klopp actually trust the kids though? It doesn't seem like he does.
By that logic, Ritchie De Laet is a better player than Gerrard?
Hang on a minute.
If part of the requirement for "great" teams is that they "win easily against bottom half teams", and Liverpool failed to do that because they were previously blasted for a lot of "1-0s and one-goal margin victories against the bottom sides", aren't you arguing that Liverpool back then weren't a great team?
Yeah exactly. I mean Giggs / Scholes were definitely better than our current academy players (at least so far) but not because they won the league and CL once.
The same way not every striker who contributed to more than just 1 league title is better than Shearer, far from it.
But Alexander-Arnold is a better talent than those players isn't he? Ignoring trophies, have a look at their respective individual achievements. Rashford for example is one year older than TAA but Alexander-Arnold has been in the Premier League team of the season twice, won PFA young player of the year last season and has been in the Champions League team of the season as well. Rashford's doesn't match up to Trent in that regard.
I'm not trying to put Rashford down here. I think he's a great player. I just think Alexander-Arnold is a better talent and has achieved more so far both individually and in terms of trophies as well.
There's an argument that Alexander-Arnold has been managed by Klopp whereas Rashford had to play with Van Gaal & Mourinho earlier in his career.
He's played Rhys Williams a fair bit this season, including away against Atalanta. People are using the Southampton game and Henderson playing there as some kind of indication of what Klopp prefers but he only did that because he thought Henderson would deal with Southampton pressing high. It backfired because we missed Henderson's presence in midfield more.
I am not that convinced by TAA, he has obvious strengths but also weaknesses and it is way easier to be in teams of the year if your team is competing for trophies than struggling to make top 4.
And your argument is / was strongly based on Liverpool getting more out of TAA „because look at his achievements“.
And yes obviously if TAA had played for LvG he would have probably been out of the team after a few games, not because he is not good, but rather because the set up would have been entirely different.
Fair enough if you find TAA better and maybe he is better (needs to play at that level for a few more years though - same with Rashford ), but you can‘t base this just on winning the 2 trophies. Otherwise you could probably pick almost any of your player and claim they are better than all others because they have been in the team of the year / won those trophies as well.
I wouldn’t swap Greenwood for TAA and £50m.
We didn't fail to do that, it was just the narrative on here. There were plenty of comfortable victories, and more often than not even the one-goal margin victories were games in which we thoroughly dominated. And it's also just part of what makes a team great. Other things which made our team great between 18-20 were convincing victories against our direct rivals and, for last season, a great defense and an unbeaten run that lasted 27 games into the season.
So far besides the actual point that I can't even see it anymore
The difference is he has played them out of necessity than choice..
I would only count Curtis Jones as a player he trusts.
You have been spouting rubbish on here consistently but this TAA argument is taking it a bit much.
You use TAA achievements to beat down Rashford and say he is a better talent listing them accomplishments such as winning the league and champions league and then turn around with a straight face and say Pogba can not be counted because we bought him back for a huge fee, as if he didn't pass through the United academy. If we are going by trophies and appearing in best 11s as the standard, then Pogba definitely as achieved relatively better than TAA. 3 Serie A titles, couple of cup wins in Italy, the Europa andeague cup with United and of course the World cup. Then there is receiving the golden boy at 19, FIFA world 11 2015 & 2018, Uefa best 11 2015.
Then if we are arguing on the basis of talent, I believe no matter how inconsistent and controversial he is, I don't believe anyone would argue with a straight face that TAA is more talented than Pogba. In fact Pogba is probably the most talented player any academy has produced in England in Post SAF years.
I wouldn't make this comparison about any Liverpool player. I'm not going to run around saying Henderson is a better footballer than Pogba because 'look what Henderson has won'. I genuinely believe based on where TAA is at and what he's done over the last two seasons, he's a better talent than anything United have produced from their academy post Ferguson. I don't think that's a controversial thing to say. What are we basing it on if not trophies won or individual achievements? If it's how both players have performed over the last few years then doesn't Trent still come out on top of Rashford?
If the question was which club produces more from their academy, capable of breaking into the first team, then it's United all day. I feel I should make that point clear. United's academy is better than anyone's in England.
Yeah I wouldn't take that swap either.
Ole needs to come out and say comments of other managers are affecting the performances of refs in our games. The refereeing against Burnley was horrendous.
Wasn't Pogba brought through your academy whilst Ferguson was still manager? Pretty sure he left in 2012 after failing to break into the first team.
Fine but are TAA's accomplishments better than his or is TAA a better talent than he is, besides the point he is currently playing in our first team.
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Well anyone can see Pogba has more talent in his locker, but he's yet to show that on a consistent basis in a United shirt. I've come to the conclusion you'd be better off without him considering his up and down form over the years, and the negativity he can bring.
Some massive over rating of TAA on here , he has been really found out this year without VVD covering for him at the back. He is all about delivery in attacking areas but is shite defensively which is ok when you have got someone decent covering you at the back .
Imagine the embarrassment you'll face (you individually, no one else) if you lose.
He will probably end up having a world class game against us. Thats our luck.
Embarrassed about what?
I've only seen him play a couple of times, admittedly, but he severely lacks pace. Both Rashford and Martial will be licking their lips at the prospect of lining up against him, especially with that high backline Klopp undoubtedly enforce.
Any chance in hell Klopp actually changes how they play and doesn't go with the high line against us?
I'm just yanking your chain. If you beat us on Sunday I'm buying a City shirt.
He might. He has to be aware of United's pace up top. Is Martial fit?
No word yet, which I'm taking as a positive, if his hamstring had gone O feel like we'd know by now.
Real or ironic?
I'll say real but we all know it's not.
It's not the quality at the top that has dropped. The quality of the other teams has improved. There are now more teams willing to try to get something. Many of these teams. in the last 3 years have been going into games against Liverpool & City with the mindset of accepting defeat & hoping to keep the scoreline respectable. It's true that Liverpool & City aren't at the level they have been. The only way they could have kept up their level would have been if the competition had continued to be total crap.
Liverpool fans just want to hear how great their team is all along going about how United is nothing special. There some false narrative we are saying our team is great and based on that some strange points are being made.
IF HE is losing I am very excited to hear which reason it would be - maybe a combination of some of the following ones:
- Deflection
- VAR
- Penalty
- Windy
- Rainy
- United played differently to their usual game plan
- Injuries
- Only 3 Subs
- No excuses, but...
- Deflection
- VAR
- Penalty
- Windy
- Rainy
- United played differently to their usual game plan
- Injuries
- Only 3 Subs
- No excuses, but...
0-0 at 90'. 92' long ball over the top while a player is being treated for injury on the sideline. Rashford draws a penalty and it's awarded after a lengthy VAR review. Bruno takes it, it's saved by the keeper but he is judged to have been off his line. Bruno takes it again and scores.
Stick to the darts.
Ole's tinkering with team selection is just not fair play is it
all in terrestial rain and 80 mp/h wind"No excuses but United came out and setup to counter attack, maybe this is my fault who knows, what I heard is that United get more penalties . FACHT!!!!"
"They have a wheel, we don't even have a wheel"
Our injuries braking their rhythm.
Us playing defensively.
All of Manchester being in their half.
Bad pitch although it's theirs.
or maybe " No, no... when you do that with footballers, like he said about Chelsea, and when you do things like that about a man like Frank Lampard"
He’s already dropped his penalty bomb so I wonder what other shite Klopp will spout about us in his presser?
My honest guess if there is no controversy, would be he will blame it on injuries and COVID, completely ignoring the fact that its normal to get injuries and they did extremely well to have so few last year.