I keep forgetting that Keita is to come. Klopp would be daft not to invest in CBs and perhaps a new or additoonal defensive coach. They could be a force next year.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Aye, obviously one players won't completely solve their defensive woes but a stellar addition like Van Dijk would do them wonders because they look very good attack-wise right now.
In the hat all that matters. There's weaknesses in every team this season, I first thought PSG but I don't see one clear cut favourite as of yet. It's anyones. Bring on February.
That's not what happened though. We scored our goals on the break in the first half and were utterly pinned back in the second when we conceded. Nothing to do with committing too many forwards.
Also Moreno happened
Stupidest post in this thread which is a feat considering the sheer number of Liverpool fans posting in this thread.
Again that's bullshit. They conceded 5 against City and 4 against Spurs whilst scoring just one goal. It's all good and fine beating Russian and Bulgarian teams by 7 goals but out of all the English teams, they're least equipped to handle good European teams.
And last season, we were by far the best against the rest of the top 6.
Que "but european teams are different, won't be as naive as the managers in the top 6" etc.
How does last season form matter right now?
Team is not that different to last years? Our form now is more reminiscent of the way we played when we played most of those teams last year than our early season form.
Think it is fairly natural to look at, to be honest.
You and a few others are basically clutching at straws trying to build a narrative of how ill equipped we are to deal with this, based on two games in one season. The bottomline is that there is no real basis for asserting too much either way. It's knockout stages, it's Europe, the unknowns far outweigh the knowns. Who knows how we will do.
Yeah. It's all about the narrative. Nothing about the fact that your team failed to win the three toughest matches in your group. Nothing to do the fact that apart from Arsenal, you've failed to beat the top six teams with a glorious aggregate scoreline of 2-10.
And then drawing a very thick line in the sand to eliminate anything before this season. Bet you didn't dare make any predictions on anything over the summer, with a new season being a perfectly clean slate for all and sundry.
Obviously. It'd be stupid to make predictions on basis of last year form like you've done. You seem to have neglected that all of the top teams in Europe has strengthened(apart from Madrid). Last year form hardly matters when talking about this season.
Perhaps in your mind you still think Liverpool signed VvD and Keita.
That sounds like a post from one other Liverpool fan few days go which was about how it United draw and Liverpool wins United lead over Liverpool would be smaller.
You read Obvious Michael Owen on facebook perhaps?
How about in 1983?
He wrote "at home". They do not concede many at home.
Conceding many away still sucks for them though. And as good their attack is - and it is excellent- it is still not good enough to bail them out against the best CL sides.
Last years form makes no difference this season is the point
I am honestly not convinced that Liverpool will do any worse against big European sides than other English teams.
Yes, they have a bad defense and will probably ship quite a few goals, especially away from home. However, I doubt any English team will be able to keep a clean sheet against the big boys. I saw Real cut through United like a hot knife through butter in the supercup, and Real have been in pity form so far this season.
Liverpool are probably one of the best counterattacking teams in Europe. Most big teams like Barca, Real and Bayern play a high line. Liverpool are as well equipped as anyone else to hurt them on the counter.
With that being said, I wouldn't mind facing them in the quarter final. King Leo would have a field day against Lovren and Klavan.
Yes, they have a bad defense and will probably ship quite a few goals, especially away from home. However, I doubt any English team will be able to keep a clean sheet against the big boys. I saw Real cut through United like a hot knife through butter in the supercup, and Real have been in pity form so far this season.
Liverpool are probably one of the best counterattacking teams in Europe. Most big teams like Barca, Real and Bayern play a high line. Liverpool are as well equipped as anyone else to hurt them on the counter.
With that being said, I wouldn't mind facing them in the quarter final. King Leo would have a field day against Lovren and Klavan.
We'll need to show some new resilience at the back. And possibly dump Henderson into a black hole, if he doesn't start doing the 'defensive' part of being a defensive midfielder. We have some good tools for knock-out stages. Very strong at home, deadly on the counter away from home. But it is true that it's been a feature of klopp's tenure, mostly against lesser teams though, that a fair amount of our points won have been our attack having to bail out our defence. That's worked in the league, when our attack hasn't been off form. Not sure it'll work as well in the knockouts. We aren't going to do like we did against dortmund every time.
I get it. It's a bad point.
And the same real struggled twice vs spurs who struggled to score vs united. Pre season is pre season
How is it a bad point?
Not sure how it's a bad point, there are plenty of examples out there to prove that point.
Group stage isn't that representative either. Real is a different beast in the knockout stages.
As good as Mourinho is at setting up a defense, I don't see United keeping a clean sheet against the big boys. Neymar, Cavani, Mbappe, Messi, Suarez, Iniesta, Ronaldo, Isco, Modric, Kroos, etc... are just too good. They'll break you down.
Attack is what wins you this competition.
I see your point that it's mostly the same group of players as last year but you know how much football can change in a short amount of time.
You've gone from not losing a single game to the the rest of the top 6 last season, to already having been thrashed twice and only winning 1 out of 5 so far.
Teams don't magically transform over a summer, with no relation to what they were before. Cause and effect really. It makes better sense to speak of progression and regression than to just ignore what came before.
I am not even trying to argue that our record against the top 6 last year means we have a good shot of the CL this year, since knockouts is a totally different game. All I am saying is that if you are going to argue for or against based on our top 6 record, it makes sense to at least look at how that was last year as well. For example, our form curve at the moment is more reflective of where we were last year when we played the top 6 than where we were earlier this season playing them. Only looking at less than half a season to make predictions is too narrow a snapshot.
Not true anymore since Jupp took over. There's a much higher focus on defensive stability with him at the helm, and so there are long spells of the team just sitting back and wait to be observed now. Just like in Tuesdays' game against PSG, where we ended up with just 48% possession.
And plenty that prove otherwise. It was generally a safe bet that we'd do well in the CL under Rafa. Generally a safe bet that arsenal progress from the group stages then lose to the first good team they meet. Also, the amount of CL winners who end up in the final the season the next year is too higher to say that there is no correlation across different seasons.
Yes, things can change quickly. And the change in our top 6 record is certainly a reflection of that. To insist that one should therefore ignore all evidence from prior to the last 4 months is taking it a bit too far. You give weight to the most recent evidence of course, but not exclusively.
Eh? United needed a point from their last two games to win the group. Going into Tuesday they needed to not lose by 7 goals, at home to CSKA Moscow, who at that point had only scored 7 goals over their previous 5 CL games, to be guaranteed at least second.
If you're going to make a stupid point, at least make one at least partially based in reality.
That's not form, you are talking about quality of players.
Also what you are ignoring with "We have same set of players" is what others have done. Teams like ManUtd, City, Spurs and others have spend money and improved their first team, so what Liverpool did against last season, won't be same this season as the teams they are facing is different and also few of the managers had more time to work with the squad than last year.
Liverpool coming into some serious form, and with a pretty good run of fixtures coming and if they buy smart in Jan they could yet put in a bit of a challenge at the top of the table
Atletico reached the finals twice without attacking a lot. Defensive organisation is just as important. PSG look formidable but barca and real based on current form aren’t too good (though Messi and Ronaldo are)
Depends if your attackers are Ronaldo/Messi or some just good players. Both are God like players, so for teams with these 2 players it's obvious attack wins everything but then there are teams like Atletico which made finals with defence first mentality and were second away from winning CL and also penalties away from winning it again.
For a regular teams there should be proper balance, it won't apply for Madrid and Barca as they have 2 of the best players.
They're still shite.
I see it the other way around. You can lose some in the league as long as you win often enough and still come out top. In cup competitions, it is all about not losing, which is where defence comes in.
A good attack can win you the league. Clean sheets win you cups.
Where have you been the last 4 year when Madrid won 3 CL titles with a shaky defence? Madrid and Barca have dominated Europe with their attack.
depends on what is "shaky" for you. real has, at least on paper, one of the best defence out there. barcelona was not shaby either. you can't compare that to back line of lovren,moreno and players like that.
The only teams that would want to play Liverpool in their current form would be a teams that have a death wish.
Undoubtedly, Liverpool's defense is their Achille'ss heel, however they are capable of putting you to the sword before you even get a chance at going at their flaky defense.
