Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

PedroMendez said:
It's just the hyperbole that is weird. No, not all defenders are equally exposed in an attacking system. Klavan and lovren were rubbish for other teams. That's just their level. Nothing to do with klopp.
Just to randomly name-drop: garay was for sale and Valencia got murillo. Both would have been fairly affordable upgrades. There are at least 20 other players Liverpool could have signed. I have no interest to start a detailed discussions about the pro/cons of alternatives. They exist and klopps decision to sign vvd-or-nobody was plane stupid.
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I agree liverpool should have gone for a cheap, decent option for depth, because having to play Klavan is criminal. But there weren't any realistic options out there(including VVD clearly) that would have made much of a difference for their defending.

And no, not all defenders are crap when they're exposed, but even the best ones tend to look worse in those situations. And only the truly elite ones with the right skillset don't look subpar in those situations

Besides which, liverpool don't exactly give up a zillion chances a game(aside from set pieces), and if they were better at controlling games and attacking in the half pitch, that by itself would further improve their defending in open play. They kept two clean sheets so far in the league, same as chelsea. Set pieces are the far bigger problem for them, and that's up to klopp to fix.
 
They are blasting at each other claiming they somehow are responsible for toxic atmosphere at antsfield recently. RAWK took it to new levels, they blamed the system, the players and when that failed too, they blaming each other, yes they are accepting its their fault, there is no way mighty Klopp is ever at fault.

This will go down really well when he gets the boot pretty soon when the board realising it has been glitters all along.
"Klopp Klops in front of Kop" that will be the headlines. They all will be crying for Rafas reentry again, "Prodigal son returns,la" will be the following headline. Will be beautiful. Cant wait..
 
Wayne's World said:
I'm starting to believe that Rodgers was a much better manager then Klopp, he seems to be running out of answers of his side and tries to deflect his own problems by talking shite about us.

Could actually see him stepping down by the end of the season
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Agreed. If he fails to get top four this season he's gone.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Agreed. If he fails to get top four this season he's gone.
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That might depend on whether there's someone better available. I think I'd rather stick by him even if we miss out on targets, assuming that there's no one better available who wants the job.

We've been doing the managerial merry-go-round a fair bit since Benitez left. I don't want the club to sack a manager with no plan in place afterwards.
 
Klopper76 said:
That might depend on whether there's someone better available. I think I'd rather stick by him even if we miss out on targets, assuming that there's no one better available who wants the job.

We've been doing the managerial merry-go-round a fair bit since Benitez left. I don't want the club to sack a manager with no plan in place afterwards.
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Ancelotti will probably be available at the end of the season so I wouldn't be surprised to see Liverpool go for him.
 
PedroMendez said:
It's just the hyperbole that is weird. No, not all defenders are equally exposed in an attacking system. Klavan and lovren were rubbish for other teams. That's just their level. Nothing to do with klopp.
Just to randomly name-drop: garay was for sale and Valencia got murillo. Both would have been fairly affordable upgrades. There are at least 20 other players Liverpool could have signed. I have no interest to start a detailed discussions about the pro/cons of alternatives. They exist and klopps decision to sign vvd-or-nobody was plane stupid.
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It's not just the players. Have you seen their positioning when defending free kicks? It's a shambles. Genuinely beginning to think Klopp just doesn't know how to set up a good defence.
 
Womp said:
It's not just the players. Have you seen their positioning when defending free kicks? It's a shambles. Genuinely beginning to think Klopp just doesn't know how to set up a good defence.
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It seems more than that. It's like he doesn't even care about a good defence. I remember when he signed, Liverpool fans insisted we don't judge him until he's had time to bring in his own players. 5 transfer windows later and the defence is still pretty much the same shambles he inherited. Pep figured out in his first season that you can't wing it with just attacking prowess in the PL but Klopp still seems completely oblivious to the fact.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
Indeed. So the club realised top four was an unlikely possibility due to the position you were in and the games you had left to play.

In other, words you were too far off to justify putting your resources into your league campaign, and the Europa became the realistic option for CL football.
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At the semi final stage of the Europa league and with only 4 PL games left did this happen. So it's not like you initial post suggested. We were going for both up to very near seasons end.

Klopp made 6 changes (not counting Mane who was suspended) at the weekend when his team has only 2 days rest. Obviously some of them were exhausted.


Lets see how he gets on this season when he has to play two games a week-many times he will only have two days rest before a game.
 
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shaky said:
It seems more than that. It's like he doesn't even care about a good defence. I remember when he signed, Liverpool fans insisted we don't judge him until he's had time to bring in his own players. 5 transfer windows later and the defence is still pretty much the same shambles he inherited. Pep figured out in his first season that you can't wing it with just attacking prowess in the PL but Klopp still seems completely oblivious to the fact.
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Spoiler alert: defense is a thing outside the PL too.
 
shabadu84 said:
I didn't think the idea that adjusting your system to accommodate the players you have would be that controversial but so be it. In your estimation, has Klopp optimized his system? Is he getting the most he can out of his defenders as it is? What about Pep? Was he getting the most out of his defenders last year? You make it seem like teams can only be devastating going forward and defensively sound if they have world class defenders. I don't agree with that. There's a problem with the tactics, with the rote philosophy, and it has repeatedly been exploited. I think it will continue, regardless of who gets brought in, until the approach is adapted pragmatically.
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Did you read anything I said?
 
Now he's got another excuse to explain everything:

Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp is "clutching at straws" by suggesting the club's history is affecting his players, says ex-striker Chris Sutton.

The Reds have not won in three games, including a 5-0 loss at Manchester City and draws with Burnley and Sevilla.

"If you look at the 125 years of Liverpool, then you can see the problem," said Klopp on Monday.

But Sutton, a Premier League winner, said: "He's said a few odd things. It's got nothing to do with history."
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http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41314073
 
giorno said:
Their actual defence cost them points against burnley. Against watford they gave up two goals from set pieces(a collective defensive effort by the whole team) and the other was down to their midfielders. They kept clean sheets against palace and arsenal

Against city, the first goal was down to klavan and the midfield, the others came after they had mentally checked out. Both goals against Sevilla once again were down to a collective defensive breakdown(lovren's mistake on sevilla's first goal was freakish. The kind of mistake any defender can make every once in a while. Lovren's prone to those, sure, but it's not like he made mistakes like that every game last season. And it came after a defensive breakdown lead to a 2vs1 for sevilla on the wing)
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I think that Klopp's tactics, or lack of defensive tactics, lead to players being exposed far more often rather than players suddenly becoming rubbish/prone to lots of mistakes.

With the exception of Klavan who I think would struggle in most Championship sides.
 
adexkola said:
Spoiler alert: defense is a thing outside the PL too.
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Point being the 'lesser' teams are less dangerous on the whole in both La Liga/Bundesliga so you can just fly at them and usually win comfortably (a generalization but I believe true overall). Purely down to the influx of money in the PL (small teams can afford better players, bigger squads, better coaches etc) but it makes for a genuinely more competitive league and the need for a very strong defense. Pep should have known this but he was in his 1st season, Klopp still doesn't know this and is in his 3rd.
 
'I thought he played the last game like a Liverpool player – highest intensity, not fixed on a position, flexible, in the box. I saw already a lot of things and in the end he didn’t hit the goal, so I’m sure a lot of people are now saying he is a proper Liverpool player – doing everything right but in the end not scoring'.
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:lol:
 
Enigma_87 said:
That's simply not true. Lallana and Henderson often top the distance covered charts, and they add Can and Wijnaldum they usually have plenty of protection for the back four.

The back 4 being isolated is far fetched.

Here's example against City

defensive-shape-vs-city.jpg


Back in 2015:
Liverpool-Tactics-Klopp-First-Game-Spurs.jpg


More recent:

Liverpool-Tactics-Formation-Klopp-2016-17.jpg


Klopp's formation is usually depicted as 4-3-3 but he started with 4-4-2 at Mainz and has on more than one occasion mentioned that he's not into set formations as his players move a lot through the pitch.

With Can and Henderson tho he defends a lot like in a 4-2-3-1(and his gegenpressen is also more or less 4-2-3-1) with Henderson/Can sitting in front of the defence.

Obviously different formations and tactics, but Liverpool midfielders doing Fellaini impersonation (feck all) and their defenders being vulnerable due to lack of protection IMO is not something I can agree with.
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Thought I had stumbled into a RAWK thread, for a moment. :wenger:
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Yh exactly, it must be frustrating because you don't even need to suddenly create the best defense in the league, it just has to do the basics and stop dropping stupid points.
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It's a bit weird, yeah. Considering the defence is our major Achilles heel and has been so a while. You got Matic for the same price we paid for Oxlade, for instance and Matic, or a type like him, would have improved our team much, much more than Ox. I also refuse to believe that we couldn't get a defender better than Lovren and Klavan for 40-50m. Hell, there's a defender at my local club, FC. Copenhagen who's better than Klavan, and he'd probably cost around 5m.
 
He has them seriously geared up to attack. I fear Liverpool are going to start wasting teams round about the time we start eking out draws again.
 
Rob said:
It's a bit weird, yeah. Considering the defence is our major Achilles heel and has been so a while. You got Matic for the same price we paid for Oxlade, for instance and Matic, or a type like him, would have improved our team much, much more than Ox. I also refuse to believe that we couldn't get a defender better than Lovren and Klavan for 40-50m. Hell, there's a defender at my local club, FC. Copenhagen who's better than Klavan, and he'd probably cost around 5m.
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I know, it's so obvious. IMO for less money you could have signed Oriel Romeu (to raid So'ton again) and someone like Zouma (on loan) which would have done wonders for you.

-----------------Mig-----------------
Clyne -- Matip -- Zouma -- Milner
-------------- Romeu ---------------
Mane --- Can -- Coutinho --- Salah
-------------- Firmino --------------

(I know the formation is wrong but you get the jist)
 
He really should be going all out to win the Carabaobabaobabbao Cup. Think their fans would expect him to win a domestic trophy this season considering they are not likely to win either the league or the champions league (duh!).
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I know, it's so obvious. IMO for less money you could have signed Oriel Romeu (to raid So'ton again) and someone like Zouma (on loan) which would have done wonders for you.

-----------------Mig-----------------
Clyne -- Matip -- Zouma -- Milner
-------------- Romeu ---------------
Mane --- Can -- Coutinho --- Salah
-------------- Firmino --------------

(I know the formation is wrong but you get the jist)
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Definitely. There were plenty of options out there, but for some reason Klopp has a lot of faith in Lovren and Klavan. I'm hoping I'm proven wrong, but their performances so far this season don't inspire much hope.
 
Kapardin said:
He really should be going all out to win the Carabaobabaobabbao Cup. Think their fans would expect him to win a domestic trophy this season considering they are not likely to win either the league or the champions league (duh!).
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Don't worry they will have excuse ready for him , if he does not win anything. He has to do better this season, his honeymoon period is surely over now. All this talk of net spend crap, but the truth is he ha spent close to 150M since joining Liverpool and has still not addressed defensive issue.
 
Well that's one less final to lose. Fecking fraud of a manager.
 
Like I have already said here, I actually think he's losing it with himself and this bunch of players. The things he got his side doing at the start are not anywhere near those standards and you get the feeling some of the players have given up on him.
 
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