No time to judge? He's had 22 games ffs.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Managers are constantly judged.
But I thought firmino and coutinho will thrive on Klopp s attacking style? yet they seem to be back to crap now that his honeymoon period is over.
No definitive judgement should be made.
17, but close enough.
18 it actually is.
18 games. Too soon to judge. People were judging LVG after two games last season.
In fairness lvg had a transfer window and pre season
So it's correct he would be judged sooner.
This January will be interesting for Klopp
The funny nice guy persona is now slipping, he's becoming increasingly frustrated during interviews and falling out with managers on the touchline.
Dare I say, he's overrated himself and his image a little. He's no magician, what he's achieved is at one club.
Dare I say, he's overrated himself and his image a little. He's no magician, what he's achieved is at one club.
Doesn't matter what manager of what team if they still have the same set of players as the previous manager results will be much the same long term. At United we have average wide players at both Full back and attack no manager unless buying is going to make them better. At Liverpool there also is a lot of average players and limited in star men apart from Coutino.
October: Kazan, Soton, Bournemouth, Chelsea
November: Kazan, Palace, City, Bordeaux, Swansea
December: Soton, Newcatle, Sion, West Brom, Watford, Leicester, Sunderland
January: Hammers
17 games, which one did I miss that you added? Genuine question
There's still a great chance that they will, starting from next season. These two, especially Coutinho, tick most of the boxes for the kind of players Klopp wants behind the striker. But Klopp will still need the right forward to make all of them click together and, right now, his two main options have been abysmal. They need someone who will provide the selfless runs down the channels in order to create pockets of space for the three players behind him and of course with the ability to play one touch football and link up with them. Benteke is clearly not that type of forward while Origi has some talent but he still needs a lot of work. I'm interested to see who he'll sign, probably with no CL football, because imo replacing Lewandowski with Immobile was one of the reasons for Dortmund's disastrous 2014-15 season.
The media that hyped him no end are now saying he has work to do. I think he will improve them no doubt but I just can't see him making them a constant top 4 club. What has shocked me is how poor Coutinho and Firmino have looked.
It remains to be seen how much influence he has over the transfer committee. Will they get the players he wants? Wil they allow him bin the players they just bought? People keep going on about us, but they have spent over £200m in the past three years and I don't think there are many players in that squad he can work with. Max 4 or 5.
He has a serious job on his hands and the way he has appeared in the last couple of weeks, it seems the size of the task on his hands has just dawned on him.
It remains to be seen how much influence he has over the transfer committee. Will they get the players he wants? Wil they allow him bin the players they just bought? People keep going on about us, but they have spent over £200m in the past three years and I don't think there are many players in that squad he can work with. Max 4 or 5.
He has a serious job on his hands and the way he has appeared in the last couple of weeks, it seems the size of the task on his hands has just dawned on him.
It's obviously way too early to judge, but it's been great to see that he's struggled with the PL. Watching them yesterday, I couldn't see any proper difference between Liverpool under Klopp and Rodgers. I would have expected an appreciable alteration in style by now.
They were especially bad yesterday but I think fatigue had something to do with it.
Spurs in October?October: Kazan, Soton, Bournemouth, Chelsea
November: Kazan, Palace, City, Bordeaux, Swansea
December: Soton, Newcatle, Sion, West Brom, Watford, Leicester, Sunderland
January: Hammers
17 games, which one did I miss that you added? Genuine question
Right, thought Kazan was his first game but it was his first home game, my bad!
Perhaps, but they've been similarly poor against Newcastle and Watford.
It's a good job they ran into Chelsea are their lowest ebb and an oddly off colour Man City, otherwise things would be looking extremely ugly.
I saw a Liverpool fan on Twitter saying that they won't judge him until he gets to make his own transfers, which seems fair enough, but they've already spent a shed load and Klopp is reputed as a training pitch manager, so he'll need to get more out of the players currently at his disposal.
I don't see them getting near the top four.
If they are his kind of players, then they should show marked improvements. Other than the brief period in November they haven't really improved as such.
Not by me, and I was giving my opinion.
Sorry but this is just wrong. Klopp said when he took over that he is no miracle worker and that patience would be required. The media (and probably some fans) overrated him, yes, but not Klopp himself.
Two clubs
Klopp became famous as Mainz coach, imo - not as Dortmund coach. What he did as coach of Mainz was wonderful. But sure, the man is like a volcano.
And I'm commenting on your opinion.
A definition judgment is usually made after awhile, but progress is always observed and judged as time passes.
For example, I doubt the owners at Liverpool said "Klopp, do whatever the feck you want this season, we don't care". They'll have expectations. They've hired him because they felt he could get him into the top 4 this season, among other more long term reasons.
Not being argumentative, I was really just talking about me as opposed to the board. In the case of I genuinely haven't passed judgement on him. It's way too early. I think he'll do a good job for them in time.
All IMHO of course.
Whats going on over at RAWK these days. How are they enjoying their saviour?
It's all Benteke's fault.
I see some similarities with this place
Let the guy build his own team. Currently he's working with what's left of Brenton. Or is the current team clearly capable of more and being held down by Klopp?
I think Klopp realises that his high intensity pressing game which he had his Dortmund team playing is not viable for a full 90 minutes in the Premier League. It is a completely different ball game (pardon the pun) compared to the Bundesliga and games are played at a much higher tempo. I think he is only starting to realise this now that's why I think that Liverpool, for the moment won't be going anywhere north of a 5th position in the league table.
I think most fans know that he deserves time to build his team but what is just amusing is that so many people here who all went 'look you don't need a long time' after those couple of big wins are now going with well he has a shite squad and needs time stuff.
As much as I want Liverpool to fail and get relegated I think it's too early to write him off. Their squad is shit and not the players he picked.
My, how the goalposts so conveniently shift.
Not by me. Buying Benteke fcked us in the summer and I said it would then. Give Klopp shit to mould into golden trophies will only result in Jurgen getting squelchy poo on his hands and clothes.
Even Dortmund at peak could not go it 90 minutes - maybe 20 or 25. If you stood through this 20 minutes without conceding the match was yours.
Does he not have an alternate approach?
Between him and Aldridge, I can't take it seriously
Klopp's tactics are basically almost the same as Rodgers. The key is to dominate a match in a certain timeframe and destroy them in that time. If you don't then yes you'll probably be caught with a sucker punch.
The key to the above tactic is: create chance -> score chance. And the key to that key is: buy the right players. He did at Dortmund for the large part and it worked. Even in his 'bad' season he turned it around spectacularly enough (for example like Villa now finishing 7th this season which no one in their right mind would believe is achieveable).
Rodgers' football was never bad. His press conferences, etc, may have been baffling but his football I held dear to my heart. As I'm sure you all know. Ergo, I like Klopp's brand of football too. Only problem is Rodgers was a footballing sado-masochist in that he would have the perfect approach and then sprinkle it with heavy doses of s**t and p**s. Klopp will need to bring his own players in and we can only hope he brings in players that actually fit the system.
Summary: Klopp is doing the right things but not with his own tools yet. I wouldn't want to return to Rafa's style or adopt LvG's.
In 2013/14, The Orange One utilised tactics similar to the high-pressing, balls-to-the-wall style of football Klopp had Dortmund playing (and winning with), and almost won the league with it. However, he discovered that it only really works effectively if you have someone like Luis Suarez to hold it all together. After the sale of Gnasher, Liverpool went from 2nd in 2013/14 with 101 goals scored and a goal difference of +51, to 6th in 2014/15 with 52 goals scored and a goal difference of +4.
Funnily enough, something similar happened at Dortmund after they let Lewandowski go. They finished 2nd in 2013/14 with 80 goals scored and a goal difference of +42, then finished 7th in 2014/15 with 47 goals scored and a goal difference of +5 whilst he was enjoying himself at the top of the league with Bayern. In fact, their average goal difference from 2010/11 to 2013/14 (their period of success) was +46.5, and the +4 of 2014/15 was their lowest goal difference since they finished on -12 in 2007/08.
In 2013/14 Rodgers stumbled upon/borrowed a tactic that worked with the players he had, and the early intensity blew a lot of teams away before they were able to get a foothold on the game. Klopp was doing it before Rodgers, and it worked to devastating effect for a while, but both found out in 2014/15 that without a top class forward player to spearhead the attacks and bang in the goals needed, it simply doesn't work. Teams know now that all they need to do is soak up the early pressure and then capitalise on tired legs in the latter stages of the game.
I think he's a bang average manager, but at least Rodgers tried to mix things up a bit when he realised the players he had were no longer suitable for that style of football, he just wasn't good enough to figure out something new, and dug his own grave a bit by finishing 2nd when he did. Klopp seems to have absolutely no Plan B, and short of some sort of transfer related miracle, I really can't see how he's going to get Liverpool from rank outsiders for 4th to regular CL participants and title contenders. Just as Rodgers' stock was elevated by a freak season, Klopp's has been elevated by the few seasons his one tactic worked.
Funnily enough, something similar happened at Dortmund after they let Lewandowski go. They finished 2nd in 2013/14 with 80 goals scored and a goal difference of +42, then finished 7th in 2014/15 with 47 goals scored and a goal difference of +5 whilst he was enjoying himself at the top of the league with Bayern. In fact, their average goal difference from 2010/11 to 2013/14 (their period of success) was +46.5, and the +4 of 2014/15 was their lowest goal difference since they finished on -12 in 2007/08.
In 2013/14 Rodgers stumbled upon/borrowed a tactic that worked with the players he had, and the early intensity blew a lot of teams away before they were able to get a foothold on the game. Klopp was doing it before Rodgers, and it worked to devastating effect for a while, but both found out in 2014/15 that without a top class forward player to spearhead the attacks and bang in the goals needed, it simply doesn't work. Teams know now that all they need to do is soak up the early pressure and then capitalise on tired legs in the latter stages of the game.
I think he's a bang average manager, but at least Rodgers tried to mix things up a bit when he realised the players he had were no longer suitable for that style of football, he just wasn't good enough to figure out something new, and dug his own grave a bit by finishing 2nd when he did. Klopp seems to have absolutely no Plan B, and short of some sort of transfer related miracle, I really can't see how he's going to get Liverpool from rank outsiders for 4th to regular CL participants and title contenders. Just as Rodgers' stock was elevated by a freak season, Klopp's has been elevated by the few seasons his one tactic worked.
I don't think Klopp's style can work the same in England where sitting deep and closing off the spaces between the lines are commonplace against bigger teams. He has to evolve his tactic and evolve his team to really be effective in England as his sides are sloppy and lacking ideas in possession. In a similar way to what Tuchel did at Dortmund this season, Klopp must evolve his tactic to overcome this hurdle. Whether he has the ability to do so is another bet all together.
Not even had a single window.
How many of these current Liverpool players would have made it in to his BVB side?
Sturridge, Coutinho and Clyne, if anyone. Maybe Moreno.
He's inherited a squad that is not strong enough and is filled with players that aren't what he is used to. I think he deserves until the end of next season to be properly judged properly.
How many of these current Liverpool players would have made it in to his BVB side?
Sturridge, Coutinho and Clyne, if anyone. Maybe Moreno.
He's inherited a squad that is not strong enough and is filled with players that aren't what he is used to. I think he deserves until the end of next season to be properly judged properly.