[Giant Midget]

A lack of pace is one thing, but Mata never even takes on his fullback. His only move these days is to come off the wing and play the ball out to the RB or a square pass inside.

 

[Robaldo]

Been saying this for years but he's tripe - the most over-hyped and bog-standard player I've seen.

Not sure how it took people so long to notice, yet the club itself apparently hasn't recognised it as a problem which is more worrying.

 

[MadMike]

He should only ever come on as a sub when we’ve got a team pinned back and we’re hammering away but can’t get a breakthrough. He has a clever final pass in him and he sometimes ghosts into the box to find a nice finish.

But starting in an open game, especially a tough one away from home, should be an absolute fecking no-no. He can’t press, he gets bypassed too easily when defending, he never offers any direct threat, he can’t hold the ball when pressed/outnumbered because he’s too weak, he can’t take a player on, he’s so much of an absentee that the opposition left back can push all the way up without a care in the world about what slowpoke Mata is doing. It’s inexcusable.

We should start Rashford or Lingard there until the end of the season then probably sign someone who knows how to play there.

 

[Seij]

Offers zero width and spends most of his time behind the striker. I know people talk about wingers cutting inside being part of modern football but there is a difference between the likes of Ronaldo/Bale/Neymar/Hazard who receive the ball wide and cut inside while still having the ability to beat the defenders and run out wide, and Juan Mata who has no business being out wide. He exacerbates our weakness of not having a proper right back, in both attack and defense.

 

[Grande]

Been saying this for years but he's tripe - the most over-hyped and bog-standard player I've seen.

Not sure how it took people so long to notice, yet the club itself apparently hasn't recognised it as a problem which is more worrying.

You’ve been wrong for years, and as Mata is running (barely) out of legs, you become like the ruined clock that shows the right time twice a day.

Mata was a very exciting player at Valencia, played brilliantly for a couple of seasons at Chelsea, and did ok for a Moyes who really couldn’t use that sort of player. With speed already starting to decline (from medium to slow), he still was one of the best players under LVG. Under Mourinho he was not bad the first season, not good last season, and now he’s started this season looking completely out of his depth.

He has 41 caps for Spain in an era when they have won 2 WCs and one Euro, and he has been competing for minutes with Xavi, Iniesta, Silva, Alonso, Pedro and even David Villa.

Saying he has been tripe and bog-standard for years is just such a stupid statement.

 

[sullydnl]

You’ve been wrong for years, and as Mata is running (barely) out of legs, you become like the ruined clock that shows the right time twice a day.

Mata was a very exciting player at Valencia, played brilliantly for a couple of seasons at Chelsea, and did ok for a Moyes who really couldn’t use that sort of player. With speed already starting to decline (from medium to slow), he still was one of the best players under LVG. Under Mourinho he was not bad the first season, not good last season, and now he’s started this season looking completely out of his depth.

He has 41 caps for Spain in an era when they have won 2 WCs and one Euro, and he has been competing for minutes with Xavi, Iniesta, Silva, Alonso, Pedro and even David Villa.

Saying he has been tripe and bog-standard for years is just such a stupid statement.

Hear hear.

 

[el3mel]

You’ve been wrong for years, and as Mata is running (barely) out of legs, you become like the ruined clock that shows the right time twice a day.

Mata was a very exciting player at Valencia, played brilliantly for a couple of seasons at Chelsea, and did ok for a Moyes who really couldn’t use that sort of player. With speed already starting to decline (from medium to slow), he still was one of the best players under LVG. Under Mourinho he was not bad the first season, not good last season, and now he’s started this season looking completely out of his depth.

He has 41 caps for Spain in an era when they have won 2 WCs and one Euro, and he has been competing for minutes with Xavi, Iniesta, Silva, Alonso, Pedro and even David Villa.

Saying he has been tripe and bog-standard for years is just such a stupid statement.

He looked good under LVG because it's easy for any half decent player to look good when he's surrounded with trash.

He was done for when he moved from Chelsea here. Was great there and hit his peak with their shirt in 2 seasons before Mourinho arrived. We got the past it version of him.

How Mourinho keeps playing him now is baffling for me. Keep him on the bench or sell him as you did with his Chelsea version ffs.

 

[Grande]

He looked good under LVG because it's easy for any half decent player to look good when he's surrounded with trash.

He was done for when he moved from Chelsea here. Was great there and hit his peak with their shirt in 2 seasons before Mourinho arrived We got the past it version of him.

How Mourinho keeps playing him now is baffling for me. Keep him on the bench or sell him as you did with his Chelsea version ffs.

This just so black and white oversimplification. Mata didn’t go from great to passed it overnight. Under LVG he was more than half decent, and to say he wad surrounded by trash ...

 

[el3mel]

This just so black and white oversimplification. Mata didn’t go from great to passed it overnight. Under LVG he was more than half decent, and to say he wad surrounded by trash ...

His decline was obvious year in year out.

You can recheck LVG squad of last season if you had forgotten how terrible we were in all areas of the field.

 

[Grande]

His decline was obvious year in year out.

You can recheck LVG squad of last season if you had forgotten how terrible we were in all areas of the field.

I sat at old trafford and saw him playing with Van Persie, Martial, Di Maria, Falcao and Schweinsteiger. Calling them trash, you can just chuck your dictionary.

 

[99withaflake]

Wonderful guy, horrible performance. Could be a horrible final season for him unless he finds the sort of form he's not shown for years.

 

[el3mel]

I sat at old trafford and saw him playing with Van Persie, Martial, Di Maria, Falcao and Schweinsteiger. Calling them trash, you can just chuck your dictionary.

That was RVP at his worst season here, scoring only 10 goals the whole season and was slaughtered every match. Got sold in summer.

Di Maria who didn't want to be here, sulked all the time and ended up on the bench for Ashley fecking Young.

Falcao who was slipping on the pitch every time he got the ball more than Gerrard. Scored 4 goals the whole season

Bastian who was another completely washed up player sold to us by Bayern after Pep wanted to get rid of him due to bis fitness issues. Played 18 matches or so in the whole league campaign.

Only Martial was the onle playing at good level, him and Rashford. The rest were either trash or past it.

 

[PaulRich]

He comes across as a top guy and thorough professional but we must have or must search for better - he's declined to a point where he offers nothing but 20 minute cameos to keep the ship steady. He certainly shouldn't be a starter for us.

 

[MadDogg]

Ultimately, we did play better with him in the team than without him last season when we were playing 4231. Even though he wasn't really playing well on the individual level, pretty much every time he was dropped the team as a whole ended up needing the extra passing and creativity that he does bring compared to our other options. However, other than one match late in the season where he did do well, he was obviously a huge problem whenever we played 433. When we already have three central midfielders what he brings to the table is completely redundant, and we desperately need everything he simply does not and can not provide.

 

[FootyGirl88]

He won't get much better than last season - he needs to go in Jan or at the end of the season.

 

[Bola]

I sure I read rumours that we were looking to offer him a new contract. If that's true, then it shows how much of a shambles our decision making is.

Mata was a top player when 'in the hole', but his role is now a Right Winger. This is a position he is totally unsuited for and I'd argue he is not even Championship standard in this position.

Unless we play him in a natural central attacking role, then I don't see any future for him at the club. Others have rightly pointed out his potential role as a 'super-sub' in games when we need to break down packed defences. I agree to an extent, but not on his wages and I personally don't want to block gametime for promising youngsters who can offer so much more.

If we can sell him before August, then it would get my vote. He can take Darmian and Rojo with him as well

 

[mewnew11]

14/15, 2nd highest scorer behind Rooney.
15/16, 3rd highest scorer behind Rooney and Martial. Highest assists in the team this season.
16/17, 4th highest scorer, behind Rashford, Mkhi and Zlatan.

Not many of those were even free kicks, so yeah, there was more to him than just Juanfield and some free kicks.

Though there's more to football than "numbers" and overall his play was decent during those 3 seasons (go re-read his performance threads, this place was generally positive about him during 14/15 and 15/16), he wasn't so good under Moyes (thought still scored 6 and assisted 6 in half a season in a shite team) and was definitely on a massive decline last season.

As I said. He was a good signing, but not an amazing one. He definitely wasn't the "worst purchase ever" or "pointless" as some have reduced him to, else he wouldn't have been consistently in our top contributors over the course of that period. A "worst purchase ever" wouldn't be doing that.



He's crap now though, and I'd rather anyone else play ahead of him, but to write off his entire contribution is harsh on him. He was a good player, but a shame that bid from Inter never materialised this summer.

So when someone asks you for numbers you give us 3rd best scorer , 4th best scorer crap.

14/15 : 9 goals, 4 assists
15/16 : 6 goals 5 assists
16/17 : 6 goals 3 assists

The stats tell the story , he has not even hit double figures. Yes , there is more to football than numbers. But my question is what does mata adds Defence- No, Creating chances- No, Helping counter attacks- No, Playing through balls - No. I can go on and on about him but the only thing he does on the field is pass sideways and backward.

There is another argument that gets on my nerves when people say he is not a right winger and is a 10. The stupidity in this statement is that mata doesnt stick to the right. He keeps coming into the 10 position/centre mid and does an equally pointless job.

Even his corner kicks are horrendous. Oh and by the ways he ends up taking our free kicks and corners and some of the appalling assist numbers include them. Nice guy maybe but pointless and gutless bloke.

 

[Bestietom]

Doesn't deserve to be on the side. He is no longer the player he used to be.

 

[anant]

Ultimately, we did play better with him in the team than without him last season when we were playing 4231. Even though he wasn't really playing well on the individual level, pretty much every time he was dropped the team as a whole ended up needing the extra passing and creativity that he does bring compared to our other options. However, other than one match late in the season where he did do well, he was obviously a huge problem whenever we played 433. When we already have three central midfielders what he brings to the table is completely redundant, and we desperately need everything he simply does not and can not provide.

Exactly this!

 

[Canagel]

Mourinho got rid of him at Chelsea. Which is why it is even more baffling to see him starting so many games for us.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Mourinho got rid of him at Chelsea. Which is why it is even more baffling to see him starting so many games for us.

He starts many games for us because everyone else is feckin' crap half the time too. The only difference is that Mata is sometimes decent on the right and works for the team, where as when you shove Rashford or Martial or even Lingard out there, there invariably crap... which is why then Mata comes into the team and starts, and then when he plays crap, one of the above come in, and when they're invariably crap, someone else comes in, and so on, until Mata comes back in.

We don't have a proper RW... thus anyone we play there won't play well there for an extended amount of time... I mean, Rashford came on yesterday and was he any better there then Mata? Nope.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Mourinho got rid of him at Chelsea. Which is why it is even more baffling to see him starting so many games for us.

Our attacking forwards aren't at the level of Chelsea 2013; Hazard, Willian, Oscar, KDB etc.

Until we sign a RW which I don't understand why we haven't. We have to keep him.

 

[Canagel]

Our attacking forwards aren't at the level of Chelsea 2013; Hazard, Willian, Oscar, KDB etc.

Until we sign a RW which I don't understand why we haven't. We have to keep him.

Why haven't we bought one? Mahrez was so obvious but there you go. It pisses me off that he can go and warm the bench at City when we are the ones desperately crying out for wingers.

 

[Canagel]

He starts many games for us because everyone else is feckin' crap half the time too. The only difference is that Mata is sometimes decent on the right and works for the team, where as when you shove Rashford or Martial or even Lingard out there, there invariably crap... which is why then Mata comes into the team and starts, and then when he plays crap, one of the above come in, and when they're invariably crap, someone else comes in, and so on, until Mata comes back in.

We don't have a proper RW... thus anyone we play there won't play well there for an extended amount of time... I mean, Rashford came on yesterday and was he any better there then Mata? Nope.

Remember when Mourinho first came he said he wanted 'specialists'? why we ignore the RW position year after year I will never understand. The only one I think can adapt to RW in our team is Rashford if he's coached properly because he has some attributes like pace and crossing ability. Mata and Lingard are not wingers.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

So when someone asks you for numbers you give us 3rd best scorer , 4th best scorer crap.

14/15 : 9 goals, 4 assists
15/16 : 6 goals 5 assists
16/17 : 6 goals 3 assists

The stats tell the story , he has not even hit double figures. Yes , there is more to football than numbers. But my question is what does mata adds Defence- No, Creating chances- No, Helping counter attacks- No, Playing through balls - No. I can go on and on about him but the only thing he does on the field is pass sideways and backward.

There is another argument that gets on my nerves when people say he is not a right winger and is a 10. The stupidity in this statement is that mata doesnt stick to the right. He keeps coming into the 10 position/centre mid and does an equally pointless job.

Even his corner kicks are horrendous. Oh and by the ways he ends up taking our free kicks and corners and some of the appalling assist numbers include them. Nice guy maybe but pointless and gutless bloke.

Because numbers in isolation don't really mean anything. In regards to the contribution of the whole team, he was productive proven by being among the top contributors. That means more than just how many goals he scored without comparison, because few others were getting those goals and assists. He also scored more goals and got more assists than the numbers above if you include all competitions. You appear to have disregarded his goals in cups/Europe, I'm not sure why you don't think those count.

Regardless, you seem to be misinterpreting the point I am making about him. I am in no way saying he was a great, amazing signing who made a massive impact at the club. I am arguing against those who have claimed he was one of our worst signings ever. He absolutely isn't. He's been a steady contributor, and has generally played well. For a signing in the relatively dismal post-Fergie era of United, he is comfortably a 6.5 out of 10 signing in terms of what he has done on the pitch. Decent, good at best. He is very poor now, but that appears to be clouding the judgement of his overall contribution here, which has been reasonable.

 

[MadMike]

He won't get much better than last season - he needs to go in Jan or at the end of the season.

His contract expires anyway end of the season. He can sign a pre-contract Bosman with European clubs from Jan to leave for free next summer. The chances that we offer him an extension are slim, as are that we get any significant fee for him. I can't imagine anyone in the EPL going for him, given how glaring the signs are that he's wholly unsuited to this league nowadays. And I can't imagine anyone in the continent paying anything over 10m to have Mata in January rather than getting him for free 6 months later.

Unless we are going to sign anyone mid-year we might as well keep him as a squad player till next summer. But he can't be starting games, especially in the league and even more so away form home.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Never really had legs in the past, but he can barely move now. If you are starting in the RW position with a lack of movement you are always going to be exposed and that is what is happening with Mata. I do think he has been a good squad player in his time here (even if he never matched his Chelsea form). But he is another passenger we are carrying, and we have to many of them. Valencia, Young, Herrera, Mata, Martial (right now), Darmian, Jones. All shouldn't be at a club wanting to win the league.

 

[Godfather]

Every team on this planet earth will attack our right side because everyone knows just how bad we are there. Well everyone apart from our own manager.

 

[Grande]

That was RVP at his worst season here, scoring only 10 goals the whole season and was slaughtered every match. Got sold in summer.

Di Maria who didn't want to be here, sulked all the time and ended up on the bench for Ashley fecking Young.

Falcao who was slipping on the pitch every time he got the ball more than Gerrard. Scored 4 goals the whole season

Bastian who was another completely washed up player sold to us by Bayern after Pep wanted to get rid of him due to bis fitness issues. Played 18 matches or so in the whole league campaign.

Only Martial was the onle playing at good level, him and Rashford. The rest were either trash or past it.

This is where thinking only in black and white doesn’t help you.

You’re saying a player who was considered by many world class the year before, and the season after he was bought by PSG for £44m and set a league record for most assists ever - is trash. What do you think the word means?

Falcao scored 33 goals and 26 goals the last two seasons. He had a bad spell, he might have been even better before, but he was far from trash.

Half a year after Mata arrived, Van Persie was hailed as a genious at the WC were he scored four goals and was talismanic for a underwhelming group of Dutch players who took third place medals. He scored 8 goals for Holland that year. 18 in 28 for United that season. 22 goals in Turkey the next year. Declining? Yes! Trash? You call a player who lifted us to a league title in Fergie’s last season ‘trash’ that lightly?

Don’t you have other words?

 

[el3mel]

This is where thinking only in black and white doesn’t help you.

You’re saying a player who was considered by many world class the year before, and the season after he was bought by PSG for £44m and set a league record for most assists ever - is trash. What do you think the word means?

Falcao scored 33 goals and 26 goals the last two seasons. He had a bad spell, he might have been even better before, but he was far from trash.

Half a year after Mata arrived, Van Persie was hailed as a genious at the WC were he scored four goals and was talismanic for a underwhelming group of Dutch players who took third place medals. He scored 8 goals for Holland that year. 18 in 28 for United that season. 22 goals in Turkey the next year. Declining? Yes! Trash? You call a player who lifted us to a league title in Fergie’s last season ‘trash’ that lightly?

Don’t you have other words?

Don't care a little bit about what they did in other clubs previoualy. Di Maria, Falcao and Bastian were trash here. That all it matters.

RVP was well past it this season and his performance was terrible. He wasn't the same one of Fergie last seaaon when he banged 30. He scored only 10 goals, including 2 in one game so he scored in only 9 games the whole season, including one penalty vs Burnely iirc. He was slaughtered all the season and got sold by the end of the end.

You probably just have short memories.

 

[MadDogg]

You’re saying a player who was considered by many world class the year before, and the season after he was bought by PSG for £44m and set a league record for most assists ever - is trash. What do you think the word means?

Falcao scored 33 goals and 26 goals the last two seasons. He had a bad spell, he might have been even better before, but he was far from trash.

It really doesn't matter what they did for other teams, they were absolutely terrible for us. Falcao in particular was atrocious, far far worse than what Rooney was at his worst. It's normally an exaggeration when somebody says a player looks like a random from the crowd who won a prize to play. With Falcao it wasn't an exaggeration; he truly was that bad. Di Maria had moments of class particularly when he first arrived, but he was certainly poor for us overall.

 

[kouroux]

Don't care a little bit about what they did in other clubs previoualy. Di Maria, Falcao and Bastian were trash here. That all it matters.

RVP was well past it this season and his performance was terrible. He wasn't the same one of Fergie last seaaon when he banged 30. He scored only 10 goals, including 2 in one game so he scored in only 9 games the whole season, including one penalty vs Burnely iirc. He was slaughtered all the season and got sold by the end of the end.

You probably just have short memories.

Exactly. It's not about them being trash in general but the fact that they were at United.

 

[Grande]

Don't care a little bit about what they did in other clubs previoualy. Di Maria, Falcao and Bastian were trash here. That all it matters.

RVP was well past it this season and his performance was terrible. He wasn't the same one of Fergie last seaaon when he banged 30. He scored only 10 goals, including 2 in one game so he scored in only 9 games the whole season, including one penalty vs Burnely iirc. He was slaughtered all the season and got sold by the end of the end.

You probably just have short memories.

My memory is quite ok. I remember both good and bad.

Trash means garbage. Can’t be used anymore. It doesn’t mean played badly for a game, or even a year. Which is exactly the point, as the claim was that Mata wasn’t a good player at any time under LvG (or anyone else), he only looked good because the players around him was ‘trash’.

Whereas it’s quite obvious to anyone remebering how we were back then, that LVG made a lot of players ranging from very capable to quite good, look a lot worse than they were.

Mata was a very good player still then. Not a world beater. Not a bog-standard player made to look good by trash.

 

[el3mel]

My memory is quite ok. I remember both good and bad.

Trash means garbage. Can’t be used anymore. It doesn’t mean played badly for a game, or even a year. Which is exactly the point, as the claim was that Mata wasn’t a good player at any time under LvG (or anyone else), he only looked good because the players around him was ‘trash’.

Whereas it’s quite obvious to anyone remebering how we were back then, that LVG made a lot of players ranging from very capable to quite good, look a lot worse than they were.

Mata was a very good player still then. Not a world beater. Not a bog-standard player made to look good by trash.

LVG can only be blamed for Di Maria at best but the likes of Falcao and Bastian were hilariously bad and RVP was well past it. I even can't blame him for Di Maria 100% because the latter didn't want to play here and was sulking, deservedly dropped for Young. If the rest of the team is average or past it players, it's easy to look good in comparison.

And it's quite interesting why you're evading talking about our squad in LVG second season.

 

[Grande]

It really doesn't matter what they did for other teams, they were absolutely terrible for us. Falcao in particular was atrocious, far far worse than what Rooney was at his worst. It's normally an exaggeration when somebody says a player looks like a random from the crowd who won a prize to play. With Falcao it wasn't an exaggeration; he truly was that bad. Di Maria had moments of class particularly when he first arrived, but he was certainly poor for us overall.

Certainly they both played terribly in the end for us under LVG. Unlike Mata and Martial. Certainly they weren’t trash players, as proven later - they were playing far below their capabilities. As did many players under LVG those seasons. Martial, and Mata wasn’t among them.

 

[Grande]

LVG can only be blamed for Di Maria at best but the likes of Falcao and Bastian were hilariously bad and RVP was well past it. I even can't blame him for Di Maria 100% because the latter didn't want to play here and was sulking, deservedly dropped for Young. If the rest of the team is average or past it players, it's easy to look good in comparison.

And it's quite interesting why you're evading talking about our squad in LVG second season.

It won’t change anything. At least you’ve exchanged ‘trash’ for ‘average’, that’s something though.

I’ll just lay it down also something about the theory that if you have a team of bad to average players playing badly together, and take antother average player, Juan Doe, and throw him into the mix, it will be easy for him to look like a really good player.

It’s wrong, it’s not what normally happens. He’ll normaly look below his capabilities in that environment.

 

[el3mel]

It won’t change anything. At least you’ve exchanged ‘trash’ for ‘average’, that’s something though.

I’ll just lay it down also something about the theory that if you have a team of bad to average players playing badly together, and take antother average player, Juan Doe, and throw him into the mix, it will be easy for him to look like a really good player.

It’s wrong, it’s not what normally happens. He’ll normaly look below his capabilities in that environment.

If everyone is playing terrible while someone has good touches on the ball and playing semi decent stuff, it's easy to overrate him.

Mata had bunch of good games for us here and there but never a great or even a good season from start to finish.

 

[Sarni]

You’ve been wrong for years, and as Mata is running (barely) out of legs, you become like the ruined clock that shows the right time twice a day.

Mata was a very exciting player at Valencia, played brilliantly for a couple of seasons at Chelsea, and did ok for a Moyes who really couldn’t use that sort of player. With speed already starting to decline (from medium to slow), he still was one of the best players under LVG. Under Mourinho he was not bad the first season, not good last season, and now he’s started this season looking completely out of his depth.

He has 41 caps for Spain in an era when they have won 2 WCs and one Euro, and he has been competing for minutes with Xavi, Iniesta, Silva, Alonso, Pedro and even David Villa.

Saying he has been tripe and bog-standard for years is just such a stupid statement.

He’s definitely a very good player or used to be at least. United have the sort of problem right now that whoever joins the club starts to be perceived as below par/average within a year of joining the club despite all his past.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Teams know our weakness is the right side now.

Leicester and Brighton both identified it straight away and all their dangerous attacks came from that side.

No surprise once Rashford/Lingard came on and provided some energy, this was nullified.

 

[Grande]

He’s definitely a very good player or used to be at least. United have the sort of problem right now that whoever joins the club starts to be perceived as below par/average within a year of joining the club despite all his past.

I think you’re right. If you follow the player by player evaluations on here about almost every single player in the squad since 2013, you’d come to the conclusion that only a brilliant mastermind could avoid relegation with those players. Yet Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho are at the same time deemed prehistorical and clueless.

Woodward must have done some fantastical bribery behind the scenes!