[Andersons Dietician]

Used to him not really being impactful on games but first half felt like his use of the ball was really poor but he certainly got better as the game went on.

 

[Based Adnan]

Even if he is a back up he's a square peg in a round hell which just isn't good enough.

Bit worrying we want to extend his contract as well.

 

[Bola]

He was perfectly good today. The absolute state of this thread desperate to criticise/crow about being right. Have a day off you miserable clowns.

In what way was he good when performing his duties as a right sided attacking player?

 

[Rozay]

Asked the question of why he (and Jesse) are considered as forwards at the club, much to the outrage of many. I’m sick of seeing him on the right. Forgot he was even playing in the first half, and was basically a CM in the second.

 

[haram]

Asked the question of why he (and Jesse) are considered as forwards at the club, much to the outrage of many. I’m sick of seeing him on the right. Forgot he was even playing in the first half, and was basically a CM in the second.

Better than forcing him to be a winger getting chalk on his boots.

 

[Rozay]

Better than forcing him to be a winger getting chalk on his boots.

Agreed. Basically, we have nobody on the right. Mata is not that player. If you put him on the right, he will ultimately just be an additional CM.

 

[Brwned]

In what way was he good when performing his duties as a right sided attacking player?

What you think his duties should be and what his actual duties are, aren't the same thing. Surely you realise that.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Asked the question of why he (and Jesse) are considered as forwards at the club, much to the outrage of many. I’m sick of seeing him on the right. Forgot he was even playing in the first half, and was basically a CM in the second.

Mata hasn’t been used properly by any manager he’s had at united, it’s not unexpected that he would get the shit he gets since that right wing is not his friend. Why he continues to be put out there when his talents clearly lie in a central role is beyond me.

Same thing for our style of play, if we are playing counter attacking he’s next to pointless. He too slow for the soaking up pressure and bursting forward game. But if we are playing the build up taking the attack to the oppo game then he’s an excellent choice...in a central role.

The years he won player of the season with Chelsea he was central, he was left of central. Yet here he’s right, always right. Makes no sense.

 

[Makalu]

He needs to change his game now that it's clear he's physically no longer up to playing right wing. Like Giggs in the last couple of years, turning into an excellent central midfielder, I think Mata could do the same. He's got the brain to do it, obviously not as a starter, but I could see him doing a job in Pogba's or Herrara's positions from the bench. Question mark whether his physique would hold him back even there though.

 

[Bola]

What you think his duties should be and what his actual duties are, aren't the same thing. Surely you realise that.

OGS could be giving him different instructions to what a right winger/ I side forward should do. But either through OGS' instructions or Mata's lack of ability (in that position), it is simply not good enough and the performance deserves criticism (whose fault is a different matter)

You seem to have a diffeent view, so what did you think Mata did today that justifies the tag of a good performance?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He was perfectly good today. The absolute state of this thread desperate to criticise/crow about being right. Have a day off you miserable clowns.

Yep he was fine. This place is just odd at times

 

[Water Melon]

Mata is done with us. Needs to move on to greener and easier pastures, i.e. US or China. Brilliant player, past it.

 

[Bobcat]

I thought he was ok today, some good and some bad moments, but hes very involved and keeps our MF ticking.

The problem is that Ole wants width and with no proper RB and Mata constantly tucking inside our right side just completely collapses in attack. He could still so well as a RCM in a 442 or a AMF in a 4222, but RW in 433 simply does not suit him

 

[Bola]

I'm just hoping that we don't offer him a contract extension, does not deserve it and he is blocking the path for youngsters

Hope he gets a big money offer from China

 

[mewnew11]

Mata hasn’t been used properly by any manager he’s had at united, it’s not unexpected that he would get the shit he gets since that right wing is not his friend. Why he continues to be put out there when his talents clearly lie in a central role is beyond me.

Same thing for our style of play, if we are playing counter attacking he’s next to pointless. He too slow for the soaking up pressure and bursting forward game. But if we are playing the build up taking the attack to the oppo game then he’s an excellent choice...in a central role.

The years he won player of the season with Chelsea he was central, he was left of central. Yet here he’s right, always right. Makes no sense.

This argument irks me , because even though he starts on the right wing he never plays there does he. He comes central 80% of the time , which apparently is his best position but still adds little to the play.

So yeah we need an upgrade , his time is up .he even doesn't add to the press

 

[Reddy Rederson]

This argument irks me , because even though he starts on the right wing he never plays there does he. He comes central 80% of the time , which apparently is his best position but still adds little to the play.

So yeah we need an upgrade , his time is up .he even doesn't add to the press

He’s not there though, he’s there as well as someone else(too many cooks). So while it might irk you, he’s a secondary figure in his preferred spot and when he is there is good mover. He’s not flashy, but he’s sneaky, popping up behind defenders, making runs Lu never does.

You give mata that central spot with fast wingers to his left and right and you’ll his assist and goal count go up rapidly.

 

[Foxbatt]

But Pogba plays in the central spot and Mata can never be as half as good as him so pointless playing him centrally. He has had his day and should move on.

 

[hocane]

Probably the worst winger in the league.
But tell you what, once he moved into that central area he looked a whole different player, looked class, great vision.

 

[Brwned]

OGS could be giving him different instructions to what a right winger/ I side forward should do. But either through OGS' instructions or Mata's lack of ability (in that position), it is simply not good enough and the performance deserves criticism (whose fault is a different matter)

You seem to have a diffeent view, so what did you think Mata did today that justifies the tag of a good performance?

I didn't watch the game today, my comment was more general. If you're assessing him on a role he's not being asked to play then it goes without saying your assessment is deeply flawed from the outset.

Mata plays as an auxiliary attacking midfielder in attack and a right sided player in defence. He's clearly not playing as a winger. Whether he should be is another question altogether.

Personally I think he's no longer the player he once was because of a mental change, rather than anything tactical. However even at that lower level he's often an essential part of our build up play through clever passing and thoughtful movement.

We only have one other player who can do that, and it's an obviously valuable skillset to have, so I don't understand the desire to get rid of him ASAP...at all.

 

[bosnian_red]

He started off on the fringes of the game but grew into it and was fine. Mata is pretty much exactly what you want from a squad player. Can play a few different positions, technically excellent so he has his qualities and can provide goals and assists when he comes in. Not effective enough anymore to start constantly, but that's hardly a problem. He's happy with his role, works with us. I don't think his wages are as bad as Lukaku let alone Sanchez where he is an issue.

 

[Mockney]

OGS could be giving him different instructions to what a right winger/ I side forward should do. But either through OGS' instructions or Mata's lack of ability (in that position), it is simply not good enough and the performance deserves criticism (whose fault is a different matter)

You seem to have a diffeent view, so what did you think Mata did today that justifies the tag of a good performance?

It’s hard to quantatively measure a performance as objectively “good”, even at the best of times, but, I dunno, how about, say, a team high 95% passing accuracy and the joint top key passes, in an utterly dominant away performance where arguing that anyone wasn’t good (let alone ‘statistically’ one of the best) would seem like the opinion that needs justifying, combined with also winning a game ending penalty, perhaps?

I mean, sure, those kind of technical arguments aren’t quite on par with a vague feeling of annoyance that he wasn’t playing well enough in a position he obviously wasn’t playing in, in a game where those hypothetical positional inadequacies were never exposed, but whatever, you’re probably right that our best and most reliable passer in one of our most dominant performances of the season didn’t even rise to the basic level of “good”.... not in a factual way, obviously, but in some bizarre and needless forum agenda way, possibly. And in the end, isn’t that what really matters?

He started off on the fringes of the game but grew into it and was fine. Mata is pretty much exactly what you want from a squad player. Can play a few different positions, technically excellent so he has his qualities and can provide goals and assists when he comes in. Not effective enough anymore to start constantly, but that's hardly a problem. He's happy with his role, works with us. I don't think his wages are as bad as Lukaku let alone Sanchez where he is an issue.

Pretty much. He's like the veteran equivalent of a 2016 Lingard. A player who does a perfectly good job as an occasional back up (he was crucial in the Newcastle and Juve wins barely 3 months ago!) but who everyone seems irrationally annoyed at for not being first XI quality, despite not atually being in the first XI!... I swear these last 6 years have turned half of our fans into rambling angry jelly babies... who forget that even our greatest sides had the likes of Anderson and Jesper Blomqvist in these roles...

 

[mewnew11]

He’s not there though, he’s there as well as someone else(too many cooks). So while it might irk you, he’s a secondary figure in his preferred spot and when he is there is good mover. He’s not flashy, but he’s sneaky, popping up behind defenders, making runs Lu never does.

You give mata that central spot with fast wingers to his left and right and you’ll his assist and goal count go up rapidly.

Play any decent footballer in the 10 with two quick wingers and you will see the goal count improve. The point is Mata needs everything working around him for him to be effective. He can't dictate games no more. City have Silva who plays on the left , right , midfield and sometimes the 10. He is incredibly effective not because he is quicker or stronger than Mata. It's just because he is a better player . That's the kindkof upgrading we need to challenge for the title.

 

[sullydnl]

Play any decent footballer in the 10 with two quick wingers and you will see the goal count improve. The point is Mata needs everything working around him for him to be effective. He can't dictate games no more. City have Silva who plays on the left , right , midfield and sometimes the 10. He is incredibly effective not because he is quicker or stronger than Mata. It's just because he is a better player . That's the kindkof upgrading we need to challenge for the title.

Liverpool are currently winning the PL title race with the likes of Henderson, Sturridge, Milner, Lallana, Origi and Shaqiri as squad/rotation/bench players. That's a more relevant comparison to the role Mata plays for us than David bloody Silva, arguably Man City's greatest ever player.

In reality we don't need quite so much from Mata given his place in the pecking order. He's experienced, professional, clever, technically excellent, excellent at set pieces, can score a goal, has played in a few different positions and has sufficient quality that even on a today like today (in a performance a lot of people seem to be criticising him for) he kept possession better than anyone else in our side and won a penalty. That's more than enough from someone who is probably our fifth/sixth choice attacking player.

 

[joleb]

Mata has 5 goals and 2 assists for 1211 minutes played.

He rarely losses possession, usually have positive impact on the game, never complains, never makes a scene, always smiling and positive.

I dont understand the negative comments about him really.

 

[Bola]

It’s hard to quantatively measure a performance as objectively “good”, even at the best of times, but, I dunno, how about, say, a team high 95% passing accuracy and the joint top key passes, in an utterly dominant away performance where arguing that anyone wasn’t good (let alone ‘statistically’ one of the best) would seem like the opinion that needs justifying, combined with also winning a game ending penalty, perhaps?

I mean, sure, those kind of technical arguments aren’t quite on par with a vague feeling of annoyance that he wasn’t playing well enough in a position he obviously wasn’t playing in, in a game where those hypothetical positional inadequacies were never exposed, but whatever, you’re probably right that our best and most reliable passer in one of our most dominant performances of the season didn’t even rise to the basic level of “good”.... not in a factual way, obviously, but in some bizarre and needless forum agenda way, possibly. And in the end, isn’t that what really matters?



Pretty much. He's like the veteran equivalent of a 2016 Lingard. A player who does a perfectly good job as an occasional back up (he was crucial in the Newcastle and Juve wins barely 3 months ago!) but who everyone seems irrationally annoyed at for not being first XI quality, despite not atually being in the first XI!... I swear these last 6 years have turned half of our fans into rambling angry jelly babies... who forget that even our greatest sides had the likes of Anderson and Jesper Blomqvist in these roles...

Didn't read much in there about beating men with pace, dribbles, driving into the box and winning back possession, the kind of things an attacking player is expected to do in the modern game. But if you think Mata is making our team stronger and not discounting out attacks, then good for you.

 

[Bestietom]

Mata although he has been a brilliant player for us, is now just not fitting in with us anymore. He has lost a yard or 2 in pace and is not physical enough against most of the teams. It seems like a fly could knock him off the ball now.

 

[Water Melon]

Herrera and Matic are doing hell lot of work to keep midfield tight, as Pogba is given license to play closer to the final third. If we play Juan in midfield we will be extremely fragile against counter attacks, as Mata does not have either physique or pace to add that steel to our midfield. He is a no 10, but we do not play with one, and when we do, we need a faster and stronger player there, as the Prem is extremely physical.

 

[lysglimt]

Some people should understand that we can't offload every single player who isnt World-class, at the same time. Players will leave in the summer - Fellaini has already gone, I expect Rojo, Darmian and Valencia to do the same. Maybe even Perreira. That alone is 5 players we need to replace - imo none of the young ones are physically ready to play in the P.L - so they need at least 1 more season

I would rather have Mata and Young in our squad 2 more years and not need them, than the other way around.

 

[stevoc]

Mata although he has been a brilliant player for us, is now just not fitting in with us anymore. He has lost a yard or 2 in pace and is not physical enough against most of the teams. It seems like a fly could knock him off the ball now.

Thats a stretch mate, in his 5 years here he's largely underwhelmed.

 

[stevoc]

Damn must have been annoying as hell to win the game 3-0 too

This is a player performance thread, where people comment on players performances.

 

[finneh]

He started off on the fringes of the game but grew into it and was fine. Mata is pretty much exactly what you want from a squad player. Can play a few different positions, technically excellent so he has his qualities and can provide goals and assists when he comes in. Not effective enough anymore to start constantly, but that's hardly a problem. He's happy with his role, works with us. I don't think his wages are as bad as Lukaku let alone Sanchez where he is an issue.

Exactly this. His skill to win the penalty was probably something only 2-3 other players in our squad could pull off.

Towards the end of the season when we have a few easier games I'd like to see Mata and Pogba centrally in front of either Matic or Herrera. Juan doesn't operate at right wing but I think hes most effective when starting from a more central position.

 

[settembrini]

Mata has 5 goals and 2 assists for 1211 minutes played.

He rarely losses possession, usually have positive impact on the game, never complains, never makes a scene, always smiling and positive.

I dont understand the negative comments about him really.

Using redcafe for goals and assists and soccerway for minutes played here are the productivity numbers for Mata and comparable players in our squad.

18/19
Mata: Goal or assist every 168 minutes.
Lingard: Goal or assist every 143 minutes.
Sanchez: Goal or assist every 129 minutes.
Martial: Goal or assist every 126 minutes.

17/18
Mata: Goal or assist every 268 minutes.
Sanchez: Goal or assist every 257 minutes.
Lingard: Goal or assist every 126 minutes.
Martial: Goal or assist every 106 minutes.

Two seasons in a row he has performed poorly relative to comparable players. When you consider the boost his stats get from free kicks and corners it's even worse.

Yes he is good at keeping possession and yes he is 'always smiling and positive' but the negative comments are because people don't believe those pluses make up for the following minuses:

1. Poor end product in terms of goals and assists.
2. No pace and dribbling means he can't beat his man when 1 vs 1 and handicaps us when we try and counter attack.
3. Very little defensive contribution when we are being attacked and he also lacks the speed and stamina to operate in a high press.
4. Almost no strength and height make him useless in the air and easily muscled off the ball by physical players.
5. While his passing is decent his playmaking abilities are often over exaggerated by his fans. Shown by lack of assists and a lower key pass rate this season than Martial and Sanchez for example.

When people post negatively about Mata's performances it is usually some combination of the above factors that is irritating them. Hope that helps.

 

[red woppit]

Very talented player, would be ok at the tip of a diamond I think, but Ole seems to favour 4-3-3, so really no place for him. I think he might well go back to Spain in the summer, where he can perform in a league more suited to him for the remainder of his career. He's done pretty well for United, without being an outstanding/automatic member of the team. He has scored some terrific goals in his time, and his free kicks are usually excellent, but I think we need to move on, and make room in the squad for younger players, Chong, Gomes, Garner etc.

 

[AN17]

Love the guy, but he needs to move on. So do we.

 

[Adisa]

I was upset when I saw his name on the teamsheet but I don't know what game you guys watched.
I thought he played well. Kept finding pockets of space which gave Fulham all sorts of problems.
I've said all alomg. We should stick to our contract offer. If he doesn't accept, that's his problem.

 

[el3mel]

Very weak on the ball and got dispossessed and displaced so easily it's painful to watch.

 

[Bola]

Using redcafe for goals and assists and soccerway for minutes played here are the productivity numbers for Mata and comparable players in our squad.

18/19
Mata: Goal or assist every 168 minutes.
Lingard: Goal or assist every 143 minutes.
Sanchez: Goal or assist every 129 minutes.
Martial: Goal or assist every 126 minutes.

17/18
Mata: Goal or assist every 268 minutes.
Sanchez: Goal or assist every 257 minutes.
Lingard: Goal or assist every 126 minutes.
Martial: Goal or assist every 106 minutes.

Two seasons in a row he has performed poorly relative to comparable players. When you consider the boost his stats get from free kicks and corners it's even worse.

Yes he is good at keeping possession and yes he is 'always smiling and positive' but the negative comments are because people don't believe those pluses make up for the following minuses:

1. Poor end product in terms of goals and assists.
2. No pace and dribbling means he can't beat his man when 1 vs 1 and handicaps us when we try and counter attack.
3. Very little defensive contribution when we are being attacked and he also lacks the speed and stamina to operate in a high press.
4. Almost no strength and height make him useless in the air and easily muscled off the ball by physical players.
5. While his passing is decent his playmaking abilities are often over exaggerated by his fans. Shown by lack of assists and a lower key pass rate this season than Martial and Sanchez for example.

When people post negatively about Mata's performances it is usually some combination of the above factors that is irritating them. Hope that helps.

Good post.

I'd add a 6th. Regularly abandons the right flank to congest the central area and more significantly, disjoint the attack down the left. Consequence is that it makes it far easier for teams to defend against us

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Nothing special yesterday but his first thought was always go get it to Martial early which helped.

 

[Foxbatt]

I don't know what game so people watched. Most of the time he is tackled he loses possession.
It's a bit like in cricket where the fielder attempts a catch and does not make it it is notched as a drop catch.
With Mata he loses 70/30 as he is so slow to get to the ball. So because he never reaches the ball it is not looked as a miss from him.
Even yesterday in the first half the moment he got tackled I knew he would lose possession and they attacked us.
Once they get away from him, he never catches anyone.
Silva is a much better player than him and he doesn't lose possession like Mata if he is tackled.

 

[Red Dreams]

Mata's best position is where Pogba now plays. So unfortunately I think he will leave.
Pogba has the advantage of being stronger on the ball.