[Raees]

You think Mata marked the beginning of the decline of this club? As opposed to, say, the Moyes + Fellaini combo the summer prior to that?

That was beyond belief in terms of stupidity and anyone could see that but what separated United from the rest under Fergie was we brought well and our Mata like duds ie Veron and Berbatov were exceptions to the norm and we usually cut them loose asap once we realised their faces didn't fit.

Mata would have been one of those fanciful signings under Fergie when we tried to be something we were not and sold soon after not heralded as some sort of hero like the fans fawn over these days.

His nice guy status affords him far too much leeway. He's simply not lived up to what we expected when we signed him and objectively speaking when you compare him to guys like KDB, Silva, Coutinho, Eriksen, Alli he's one of the most invisible 10s in terms of the impact he has with his playmaking on a game.

 

[Raees]

Well we'll have to agree to disagree then because I think he indeed is all that and the required quality.

That's fine - let's see in a years time where we are with the Mata situation.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Cant be a starter next season.

 

[Rossa]

I like him, but he is useless today.

 

[Raees]

You think Mata marked the beginning of the decline of this club? As opposed to, say, the Moyes + Fellaini combo the summer prior to that?

The three of them and the Rooney contract extension were all symbols of the failure to pass the torch effectively post Fergie.

Instead of Kroos, Thiago, players like Alexis Sanchez/Hazard or being ahead of the times, maybe pushing for a Neymar or players in general with technical ability, pace, futuristic talents and revamping the Fergie blueprint which was becoming dated but just needed a little tweaking ..

We signed a luxury player in Mata which didn't fit the United mould - on paper he was very similar to likes of Veron and Berba - you just knew he wasn't going to fit into a United side and with Rooney still there as a 10, made no sense to sign him.

Our transfer strategy ever since has been pretty misguided and it's going to take a massive summer to rectify three seasons worth of bad planning and lack of foresight. Last summer under Jose gave us Pogba and Bailly - mainstays for next 5 years and can be best in the world in their position and it still isn't enough.

Don't even mention Fellaini - whoever sanctioned that signing needs a slap.

 

[anant]

The three of them and the Rooney contract extension were all symbols of the failure to pass the torch effectively post Fergie.

Instead of Kroos, Thiago, players like Alexis Sanchez/Hazard or being ahead of the times, maybe pushing for a Neymar or players in general with technical ability, pace, futuristic talents and revamping the Fergie blueprint which was becoming dated but just needed a little tweaking ..

We signed a luxury player in Mata which didn't fit the United mould - on paper he was very similar to likes of Veron and Berba - you just knew he wasn't going to fit into a United side and with Rooney still there as a 10, made no sense to sign him.

Our transfer strategy ever since has been pretty misguided and it's going to take a massive summer to rectify three seasons worth of bad planning and lack of foresight. Last summer under Jose gave us Pogba and Bailly - mainstays for next 5 years and can be best in the world in their position and it still isn't enough.

Don't even mention Fellaini - whoever sanctioned that signing needs a slap.

Not the luxury player argument again. He has proved it time and again that he isn't one- works as hard as anyone and not just present in final third of the ground waiting for someone to pass him the ball.

I never get the logic behind people saying he lacks quality. Whether he is a good fit for our present side is an entirely different question

 

[Mockney]

The idea those of us who like Mata only do it cos he's a "nice guy" is one of the most tedious arguments on here. It can't possibly be because he's got over 30 goals for us, with big strikes against the likes of Liverpool, City and Arsenal, or that he helped us win an FA Cup. Nah, it's cos he's nice. We're all being fooled, plebs!!

Silly attempt at an ad hominem argument. Don't tell me why I like a player.

 

[Kearnkoff69]

Mata's a good player who's certainly been one of the better of our attackers in these dour years, but he's just too passive for me. Definitely not one of those "put your stamp on the game" players. Wouldn't advocate cutting him loose, but it's frustrating that he fails to decide games for us when we clearly need incisive attacking intent and the ability to break down tightly packed defenses.

 

[Raees]

Not the luxury player argument again. He has proved it time and again that he isn't one- works as hard as anyone and not just present in final third of the ground waiting for someone to pass him the ball.

I never get the logic behind people saying he lacks quality. Whether he is a good fit for our present side is an entirely different question

He's not lazy mate anything but - he's a top top professional but his hard work doesn't really have much of an impact on the pitch.

Defensively he doesn't reinforce a flank despite his best efforts, his lack of pace makes it easy for wing backs to double up with their winger on our full backs.

He lacks the ability to beat players time and time again and penetrate sides with his running from a static start down the outside and put us on the front foot. He lacks tricks or variety with his dribbling skills, compare his dribbling to David Silva.. Alli in the final third or Coutinho (see the goal he scored the other day) he's levels below these lot with his running with the ball.

His passing is very cautious and he doesn't penetrate teams enough in the final third with his passing, watch any game and compare his passing to Isco, KDB, Solva or Ozil and his passing doesn't come close.

Pretty footballer who does lack the quality to be a top 3 play maker in the EPL.

 

[Raees]

The idea those of us who like Mata only do it cos he's a "nice guy" is one of the most tedious arguments on here. It can't possibly be because he's got over 30 goals for us, with big strikes against the likes of Liverpool, City and Arsenal, or that he helped us win an FA Cup. Nah, it's cos he's nice. We're all being fooled, plebs!!

Silly attempt at an ad hominem argument. Don't tell me why I like a player.

Are teams afraid of facing Mata? If the opposition had Mata these days would you be afraid of coming up against him?

Compare that to when you face Alli or the top players (10s/wingers)in the EPL.

It's not silly at all, go through the thread and it's full of fawning about how nice he is and imo definitely plays a part in him being rated higher than he should.

 

[Mockney]

Are teams afraid of facing Mata? If the opposition had Mata these days would you be afraid of coming up against him?

What, the player who at the mid point of the season was the midfielder with the most goals + assists of any since 2011? I'd say so, yes. I also know a fair few oppos who rinsed me when he got injured as he'd been one of our best players. But hey, you'll just say "well I don't think they are" in response to this, so why bother asking me?

It's more the idea you're trying to justify your own (long held) negative opinion of him by claiming anyone with a positive one is only doing it cos he's nice (i.e, it's less valid than your proper one) I find that a bit patronising is all. And bollocks, obviously.

 

[M Bison]

Needs to be sold, very poor once again.

 

[Raees]

What, the player who at the mid point of the season was the midfielder with the most goals + assists of any since 2011? I'd say so, yes. I also know a fair few oppos who rinsed me when he got injured as he'd been one of our best players. But hey, you'll just say "well I don't think they are" in response to this, so why bother asking me?

It's more the idea you're trying to justify your own (long held) negative opinion of him by claiming anyone with a positive one is only doing it cos he's nice (i.e, it's less valid than your proper one) I find that a bit patronising is all. And bollocks, obviously.

Rooney has had plenty of goals and assists since 2013 (when he has been in decline) does that mean he strikes fear into teams?

Opposition fans, don't watch him week in week out like we do. They'll see that he's one of the few players we have that knows how to score goals and assume he's pivotal and one of our only stars but on closer inspection when you judge him over his contribution over 90 minutes it has been clear to see he isn't quite what we need for the long term or the objectives we want to achieve.

Ask yourself would Mata enhance our 2008 starting XI, our 99 starting XI, our 94 starting XI.. would he displace any of the support strikers or widemen in these sides? If the answer is no, then why fork the huge money on him that we did and why is it so controversial to say if we want to become a big side again, we can't have players of the quality of Mata as starters - we need better than him and for me that is a fact not just some agenda I have against him.

I don't need to justify my opinion and nor did I say anyone who rates Mata does so because he's a nice guy. I said it plays a part in him being overrated by a lot of fans and I stick by that comment.

If you took away the blogs and the stuff he does off the pitch and his general personality - and looked at just his performances, if he was to leave us in the summer - the only proper memory he gave us was Juanfield which in the long scheme of things, wasn't even that important. No one is asking him to be Ronaldo, but his influence compared to Eriksen/Alli over Spurs, Coutinho over Liverpool, Silva the heartbeat of City and it's not comparable. He's never been the heartbeat of United and for the money we spent on him, that is what we needed him to be. He never was and he never will be.

For a club record signing at the time, to just be a support act and squad player going forwards and not the heartbeat of a team Is not acceptable. The fact that so many have barely batted an eyelid demonstrates exactly what is wrong with this club and why it is 6th in the table.

 

[Mike09]

I have already said before that his injury last time isn't a big miss at all. He's still a replaceable with the current players that we have. Scoring 6 league goals and 10 in all comp doesn't make him special.

 

[redsunited]

Mata is an average player for a top 6 team without any best position. We need better quality and he has to be upgraded this summer.

 

[kundalini]

A few moments of quality. Not much understanding between him and Bailly.

 

[Sir Roi de Muppeterre]

Mata is an average player for a top 6 team without any best position. We need better quality and he has to be upgraded this summer.

I'll be happy to see him leave only for a decent price. Otherwise he is a good player to have in squad. We need more than just a good starting 11 to be on top again.

 

[anant]

He's not lazy mate anything but - he's a top top professional but his hard work doesn't really have much of an impact on the pitch.

Defensively he doesn't reinforce a flank despite his best efforts, his lack of pace makes it easy for wing backs to double up with their winger on our full backs.

He lacks the ability to beat players time and time again and penetrate sides with his running from a static start down the outside and put us on the front foot. He lacks tricks or variety with his dribbling skills, compare his dribbling to David Silva.. Alli in the final third or Coutinho (see the goal he scored the other day) he's levels below these lot with his running with the ball.

His passing is very cautious and he doesn't penetrate teams enough in the final third with his passing, watch any game and compare his passing to Isco, KDB, Solva or Ozil and his passing doesn't come close.

Pretty footballer who does lack the quality to be a top 3 play maker in the EPL.

Pretty valid points, and this is the sort of reputation many have of him due to certain games like Spurs last year. But, apart from a handful of teams, Mata hasn't struggles to cope with defensive duties and against Spurs, most teams' winger finds it hard.

As far as comparison with Silva is concerned, Mata has been better than and been more influential than him this season and arguably last season as well. Coutinho is far too inconsisitent and Mata makes up for lack of dribbling ability with his vision and lack of speed with a fantastic first touch.

His passing, which you say is cautious, is actually one of his bigger strengths. He is one of our few players who can split a defence with a pass. And before comparing Mata with the 3 you mentioned, compare the type of striker in front of him. Zlatan isn't a fast striker, so playing him through balls is useless, unlike playing those to Aguero or Sanchez or the likes.

I think he was definitely among the top3 playmakers in PL during his stint at chelsea and I believe he still is one of the top 3 in the league right now

 

[Leftback99]

Without the overlapping runs of Valencia to link with he's just pointless, an opposition left back's dream.

 

[Adam-Utd]

If he plays it has to be a 10 surrounded by pace.

No surprise that he struggles and we look poor in matches that are tight.

Shame we can't combine lingards body with Matas ability, they would make a serious player.

 

[manunited1919]

Any word on whether he got injured during Southampton game?

 

[AdNani]

The best technically in this squad means diddly squat.

Useful player to have yes, but his transfer value and what we could get instead means he's probably worth more to us on the market than as a squad member. One thing for sure is he shouldn't be starting next season if we want to be successful and that is a damning indictment of a player who cost as much as Sanchez/Aguero did.

So you think being better technically than Zlatan, Pogba, mkhitaryan meana nothing? Jesus wept.

 

[Zii]

If he plays it has to be a 10 surrounded by pace.

No surprise that he struggles and we look poor in matches that are tight.

Shame we can't combine lingards body with Matas ability, they would make a serious player.

So basically mata needs amazing players around him to look good. Can't wait till we sell him off, fellaini has more impact

 

[Frank Grimes]

Have a feeling he is off in the summer, and he knows it too.

 

[AdNani]

So basically mata needs amazing players around him to look good. Can't wait till we sell him off, fellaini has more impact

He really really doesnt.

 

[PepsiCola]

So basically mata needs amazing players around him to look good. Can't wait till we sell him off, fellaini has more impact

Christ, you come out with some hyperbolic nonsense.

The guys come back early from surgery to help the team. It'll endear him to Mourinho more than anything else. He'll be kept as a rotation option next season, at least.

He hasn't looked great the past few games. However we have set up for a few of them very poorly. Effectively played as a right wing back against arsenal, was poor against Spurs but today he showed glimpses of quality. Maybe him returning to a level of match sharpness.

 

[Devil may care]

I was hoping for a lot more from him tonight, don't think he'll get to start the EL final.

 

[sullydnl]

In a just world comparing Mata unfavourably to Fellaini would get someone an automatic season-long ban from watching football.

 

[lem8sh]

Best attacking outlet out of Martial, Lingard, Mkhi & Rooney but he should be sold according to the caf.

 

[lem8sh]

In a just world comparing Mata unfavourably to Fellaini would get someone an automatic season-long ban from watching football.

I didn't have the words to respond to it.

 

[el3mel]

Can't believe what I'm reading here. This forum can make a player the best ever in one match and then the worst on the planet after another match.

 

[Sylar]

Hes the least of of our problems, if hes even a problem at all.
I think hes fine on the right when we have Tony V as RB to cover that line and allow him to come into the middle (that would be in a 4231 against teams defending).
Ideally though want to see him behind the striker when he does play.

I do see him as a second striker more than anything else.

 

[RAVred]

People who thinks hes good enough to be our 10 if we want a title challenge are kidding themselves, and hes horrible on the wing in Mourinho's style and Man Utd's style.. aka counterattack.

 

[Mike09]

Can't believe what I'm reading here. This forum can make a player the best ever in one match and then the worst on the planet after another match.

There two different type of people on this thread. One who likes Mata because he's a nice guy with a great first touch and thinks 6 league goals and 10 in all comp as a 3rd or 4th top scorer means having a very good season. And the other one who understand that Mata's delivery hasn't been up to the standard of Manchester United's expectation and the contribution this season has not been much different with the other attacking midfielder like (Martial, Mkhy and Lingard).

 

[Zii]

There two different type of people on this thread. One who likes Mata because he's a nice guy with a great first touch and thinks 6 league goals and 10 in all comp as a 3rd or 4th top scorer means having a very good season. And the other one who understand that Mata's delivery hasn't been up to the standard of Manchester United's expectation and the contribution this season has not been much different with the other attacking midfielder like (Martial, Mkhy and Lingard).

This, the guys slow, cant turn and drive at a team, cant counter attack and doesn't produce enough to merit thing things he needs " AKA needs a team built around him with runners and specific things". You can build a team around Messi, Hazzard, Ronaldo, Robben. Not Mata. He doesn't give us what we need and there is a reason he has yet to drive a team to a premier league win.

 

[breakout67]

Why would you sell Mata because he isnt a world class player? Mata is a model professional and contributes goals and assists. Mata is good for games where we are going to dominate; he knows how to unluck a defense and take apart teams with less technical ability.

If we get an upgrade on Mata then we play Mata at home against shite teams that will park the bus and in the cup games. We have to play lots of games next season.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

If a good offer came, I'd sell.

 

[Stack]

There two different type of people on this thread. One who likes Mata because he's a nice guy with a great first touch and thinks 6 league goals and 10 in all comp as a 3rd or 4th top scorer means having a very good season. And the other one who understand that Mata's delivery hasn't been up to the standard of Manchester United's expectation and the contribution this season has not been much different with the other attacking midfielder like (Martial, Mkhy and Lingard).

You are joking right?????

 

[kundalini]

If a good offer came, I'd sell.

So would I.

More a reflection of his contract having just one year left, him being 29 and having been here almost three and a half years without ever being that amazing. I would be very reluctant to give him a similar deal to his current one. We signed him expecting him to be a star rather than a squad player. A short contract on lower wages might be another solution.

It's probably a harsh call because he's out-performed Mkhitaryan and Lingard but for various reasons they are likely to remain next season. With Mata, I just don't see him improving given his age; I think we've seen the best he can offer us.

 

[el3mel]

There two different type of people on this thread. One who likes Mata because he's a nice guy with a great first touch and thinks 6 league goals and 10 in all comp as a 3rd or 4th top scorer means having a very good season. And the other one who understand that Mata's delivery hasn't been up to the standard of Manchester United's expectation and the contribution this season has not been much different with the other attacking midfielder like (Martial, Mkhy and Lingard).

That's just not true. This has been his been his best season with his and his form till his injury showed some of his form at Chelsea. He's one of top 5 performers . he definitely was more consistent than all the 3 you mentioned.

People just love to overreact.