8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 54
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
The only one on that list that falls into the same bracket as Mata is Pedro. He'll never look half the assist-machine/goal threat now he's left Barcelona. The rest of them are legitimately world class players. None of them relied on players like Drogba, Ivanovic, Terry, Cahill being aerial threats from set-pieces.
He 'played his part' in the Champions League, by being about the six or seventh most influential player - if that. The reality is: Chelsea, since the original Mourinho days, have been able to grind out backs-to-the-wall wins/draws, and it has little to do with Mata as an individual. They're cup competitions, after all. It's irrelevant when discussing how good he is.
What's more relevant is that Chelsea were largely crap in the league throughout his time at the club. And the league (as always)is a much better measure of how good a side are/were. They had poor balance, a lack of discipline, and this enabled Mata to thrive.
This lack of balance and lack of discipline isn't a trait of top teams. Top teams tend to play higher up the pitch and require their attackers to be more well-rounded than Mata had to be at Chelsea.
Think of the dominant sides of the last five or so years. Would Mata get into any of them without weakening them significantly? I'd say 'no'.
A team at around 6th place is his level, I'd say.
You think I have to post something to please you?
This is just an assumption based on your opinion. You're completing dismissing everything he did at Chelsea to prove an opinion. If you don't like him, thats ok. He was a brilliant player for Chelsea and thrived in the conditions provided by their team. You can't make rubbish excuses, dismiss everything he did there, to prove your opinion.
What in my post is rubbish?
Chelsea have been a great cup team since the Mourinho days, as evidenced by Grant and Di Matteo being able to get them to finals. When they need to grind out a backs-to-the-wall performance, the likes of Terry, Drogba, Lampard, Cole, Cech were able to do it.
So the cup wins don't reflect on Mata as an individual. Is any of this rubbish?
Mata's assist stats. were boosted by consistently taking set-pieces for a handful of the biggest aerial threats in European football - Terry, Cahill, Ivanovic, Drogba... Is this rubbish?
Chelsea were not a very good side during almost all of Mata's time there. Their balance was off and they played with a disjointed end-to-end style that serious top teams don't do. Is this rubbish?
I'm struggling to see what's rubbish. I'm not dismissing everything he did there. In fact, I've made the point that he'd probably look just as good again, if he joined another lesser side where he wouldn't be expected to play progressively within tight spaces or to be well-rounded.
He'd look a better player at Crystal Palace than he ever would at Barcelona, for example. Because Barcelona play so high up the field that he'd struggle with the lack of space and time, whereas at Palace he'd have acres to run into on the break, and they'd probably not care if he tracked back, or if he got bullied off the ball every now and then.
Feck me, people are praising Mata because he ran a lot against Swansea. I think LvG can take any player from the youth team and get the same results. Mata has done nothing for months. Since he joined United, he's had spurts where he scores a couple of goals and provides a few assists, but then he disappears.
Those set pieces certainly explain away a lot of those assists while he was at Chelsea.
Wonder what explains away his productivity here? Especially his goalscoring? No doubt he just benefitted from our beautiful attacking play....
Wonder what explains away his productivity here? Especially his goalscoring? No doubt he just benefitted from our beautiful attacking play....
He's (usually) a good finisher. No one denies this. Still not a top player, though.
He did have incredible set piece targets at Chelsea (Cahill is better in that box than his own, Terry consistently excellent, Ivanovic too and various 9s), but he's earned his goals here with clever movement and finishing.
Mata is technically solid and can spot a pass. But it's hard to play him as a 10 (for defensives reasons, look at the Sigurddson goal) or as a RW (no pace). Still, after Martial, he is without a doubt our most productive attacking player. So I see him staying another couple of years.
In theory, Mata should benefit from Martial and Memphis liking cutting in from the left side. But I don't think Van Gaal is a particularly good fit for him. And in some ways, Herrera is an awkward teammate as long as Van Gaal doesn't use the Basque deeper more often.
The season he got that large amount of assists is heavily distorted by domestic and europa league matches. He got 12 assists in 37 PL matches. Impressive, but normally met by the top assister each season, and normally the top 3 (sometimes 5) manage around that many.
In any case, assists are hardly a valid barometer of creativity. Last season Brunt and an [extremely underperforming] Di Maria got 10. Rooney and Lambert got 10 the year before. In fact, I think Rooney was joint with Benzema for most assists in the CL that year.
In any case, assists are hardly a valid barometer of creativity. Last season Brunt and an [extremely underperforming] Di Maria got 10. Rooney and Lambert got 10 the year before. In fact, I think Rooney was joint with Benzema for most assists in the CL that year.
He's like a fish on a bike at OT. Feck we have Rooney taking the free kicks and Blind taking the corners. He needs a team build around him for him to shine but the problem he has is he's actually not good enough for that to happen at United. But going to a team like Spurs standing and he'd be viewed as one of the top players in the league. But here when he plays right forward he is meh and his limitations laid bare. He is a massive reason our attack is so poor. Mane would be a massive shot in the arm for us!!
No but it shows the amount of times you have set up a teammate for a goal--The end product of creativity that is very essential to the game.
I would sell him this window if we got a decent offer (£15-20m). A complete panic buy really
Sigh, quality of posts on the Caf have gotten worse in the last year or two. Cant tell if some of you are drama queens or wums either way its getting dull.
Think some of you would only be happy if we sold the majority of our squad.
Think some of you would only be happy if we sold the majority of our squad.
Selling players this window would be insane. Even the ones that we want rid of in the summer -- squad is far too thin to be offloading anyone.
Based on the last three seasons, only De Gea deserves to be here. The rest aren't good enough... Luckily, our manager isn't thaaaaaat stupid (or is he?).
Who said anything about selling half the squad?
Yes, about half the first team needed upgrades if the team is going to become a proper European force - but that's another discussion entirely.
Ultimately, this is the Mata thread, so people will counter the excuses and constant talk of his lack of movement and runners.
You only need to watch Mata a bit to realise he lacks much of what the top players in the top teams have.
His biggest contributions are scoring and finishing off moves inside the box and against stretched defences. He does little to consistently help create against a flat, organised defence.
The idea that he's being let down hugely by the quality of his team-mates is something I don't agree with. He's really just another player in the squad who wants more space than a good possession team gets, and who wants to be played in, rather than do the real creative work under pressure.
Yes, about half the first team needed upgrades if the team is going to become a proper European force - but that's another discussion entirely.
Ultimately, this is the Mata thread, so people will counter the excuses and constant talk of his lack of movement and runners.
You only need to watch Mata a bit to realise he lacks much of what the top players in the top teams have.
His biggest contributions are scoring and finishing off moves inside the box and against stretched defences. He does little to consistently help create against a flat, organised defence.
The idea that he's being let down hugely by the quality of his team-mates is something I don't agree with. He's really just another player in the squad who wants more space than a good possession team gets, and who wants to be played in, rather than do the real creative work under pressure.
The problem I think with Mata is that he really isn't that effective outside of the final third. He is more of a shadow striker/false nine than a true #10 or playmaker.
Because of this, even if we play Mata in the hole, we need a deeper playmaker like a Scholes or Fabregas - someone who can be creative from a midfield pair - to serve as the heartbeat of the team, allowing Mata to get into the box as much as possible which for me is where he does his best work. Unfortunately we do not have such a player in our squad at the moment, who can consistently pick out good forward passes from a deep position.
I say this as someone who is largely a critic of Mata and thinks he is generally quite overrated.
Because of this, even if we play Mata in the hole, we need a deeper playmaker like a Scholes or Fabregas - someone who can be creative from a midfield pair - to serve as the heartbeat of the team, allowing Mata to get into the box as much as possible which for me is where he does his best work. Unfortunately we do not have such a player in our squad at the moment, who can consistently pick out good forward passes from a deep position.
I say this as someone who is largely a critic of Mata and thinks he is generally quite overrated.
it is just so hard to see a future for him with us long term, he is no right winger and LvG is clearly desperate to get some pace in there, and with Herrera, Rooney, Pereria, etc he very unlikely to get a look in as the number 10, he also surely not going to want to be a sub in a consistent basis, just seems inevitable now that he will go fairly soon, the question is where and how much.
Do you think Juan would adopt us all. We'd get presents all the time.
Do you think Juan would adopt us all. We'd get presents all the time.
Wouldn't mind, I think my mum wouldn't mind adopting him either if it had to be the other way around
Top man.
He has been as productive as Rooney this season from open play. And this is in Rooney's worst ever season.
Mata 5 goals and 7 assists, 2 pens taken IIRC
Rooney 8 goals and 2 assists
You have to consider the positions they play. Rooney has played many of his minutes as a 9, some as a 10 and less than a half out wide. Mata has played mostly as a RW and a bit of time as the 10. The average Prem player getting Rooney's minutes at his spots on the field gets far more goals (assists is probably closer) than the average Prem player getting Mata's minutes at this spots on the field.
You can't play with 11 strikers. You need players productive at the different positions that realistically exist on a football pitch.
Rooney: "Mata is very talented, he’s small like Yoda & he's very intelligent. In some way he’s a genius so him & Yoda fit perfectly."
I assume Fellaini is Chewbacca.
And Louis Van Gaal is Jar Jar Binks.
How can someone dislike them
If you think Rooney has even been remotely as good as Mata this year then I'm not sure we are even watching the same sport.
I disagree. He only starts games on the right but he floats all over the pitch. This season there is no excuse for Mata poor stats as he's getting total freedom to do whatever he wants from Van Gaal.
Man Utd 1:0 Sheffield Utd
He wasn't very effective today but at times when he came onto the ball there was nothing ahead to try and pick out.
Has he played the last few months? One through ball for Martial and apart from that I can't remember a single attacking contribution for a long time.
Swap deals never happen, but I'd gladly swap him for a fast attacking player.
Swap deals never happen, but I'd gladly swap him for a fast attacking player.
He was awful today, our worst player by a distance. Rooney get;s slated over and over again (rightly so) for getting the ball into feet and always turning wide and playing the easy pass instead of turning forward and taking a player on, well Mata does the same thing gets the ball into feet but turns inside and plays a simple cross field pass. No penetration/no ability to go past players just a total luxury. Mourinho was right and I'd much rather see Lingard or Pereira get game time ahead of him.
Once upon a time he was a top player
Easy sit and watch Mata play! It's not about disliking him as a person but as a player with us he's shite.
by far our worst player today. I can't understand what people see in him, he has been our worst player for moths now and not even against a League 1 team he was not able to have any influence whatsoever on the game.
He has no position to excel in. He doesn't fit into the team. Albeit being a great footballer and technician he just is not made for the PL I think. Mou knew
Pretty much defines his United career. He just doesn't have the required physicality to keep up with the PL, sadly. I believe he is one of those players that would thrive with the team being built around him and him having unlimited protection. That said, I doubt United can provide this luxury he needs.
Not a great game today btw
- Status