It's barely even a debate is it. Does any left back ever have a hard game against him? They must love facing him.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 54
- Goals
- 11
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Not saying his performances of late have been good enough, because they haven't, but its crazy how much grief he's getting here considering he must easily lead the way in terms of goals and assists for us (despite this dire period of management).
Easy target for fans.
Easy target? Please. He really only started getting proper criticism a few weeks back. Him and his hugs giddily skipped guilt-free for ages.
I don't think that's true at all; he came in for plenty of criticism last year when he underwhelmed. And he is deservedly coming in for criticism now. I love the man, but his future in this team looks more and more questionable with every indifferent performance.
It was always spasmodic or fleeting, I don't think it was ever unanimous - it was always met with the caveat; of said poster or another; that it's Juan Mata. Or a player of his ilk will get over this. Those sorts of justifications were frequent.
Well that's probably because he had previously been a very good player, and even showed flashes during the cluster-f*ck that was Moyes' last few months. It's only natural that there would be caveats. But I have a clear memory of him coming in for criticism last season - in fact, I remember actively participating in a thread and wondering why he wasn't performing up to standards. If there's a way to pull up his 2014-15 thread, we could take a look.
I just did a search and here is a page from his performance thread last season, posted quite early on - already the criticism was coming in: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/juan-mata-2014-2015-performances.394002/page-8
When we play well, he is key to it, he impacts the game more than any player we have in regards to creating chances and goals. At the end of the day, that's what it's about, scoring goals and he gives us the best chance at doing that than any other player in our team. However, in the current situation, it just doesn't suit him at all.
We haven't played well for ages though and even when we had loads of the ball his contribution has been minimal. He's supposed to be this great creative player yet we create next to nothing each week. When the team's not playing well he can't just hide and be absolved of any responsibility, he has to try harder to get involved and start influencing games. When we do start playing well again, which I suspect won't be until we change manager (which may be a while), I doubt he'll a major part of it because I'd imagine a new manager would want people with a bit of character and creative players who actually create chances.
To say he's an easy target is ridiculous, he's got away with having way more nothing/poor games than good games for United because he's nice, he has a good beard and he writes a blog. I'm just bored of watching gutless United performances where not one player tries to create things or do something different and seeing one of our most technically gifted players getting easily pushed off the ball, not being able to go past anyone and continually just trotting inside and playing a sideways pass.
some great post from @noodlehair and i really couldnt have said it better myself. A year and a half later, still the same issues.
I've said it before, as have others, but his lack of athleticism is just such a huge handicap. He'd really be a superb player otherwise I think. Especially in the PL.
I really don't understand why he's never hit the gym. Ozil did and its done him wonders this season.
His physicality, or lack of it, is just such a handicap its unreal.
His physicality, or lack of it, is just such a handicap its unreal.
£90m+ to have an attack of Depay, Fellaini and Mata
He's a brilliant footballer.
Our team has been dross and never fitted him since he came. Under a decent manager he'd be class.
The last good goal we scored was against Wolfsburg from his through ball.
Under someone like Pep, Wenger etc he'd be one of the best in the league again.
Our team has been dross and never fitted him since he came. Under a decent manager he'd be class.
The last good goal we scored was against Wolfsburg from his through ball.
Under someone like Pep, Wenger etc he'd be one of the best in the league again.
Pep has never based his teams on such limited players. His whole system is based on players who can play under high pressure, in tight areas. The pitch is squeezed, and there's nowhere to hide or to avoid being pressurised.
He requires players who can turn on the ball, who have quick feet, who can dribble in tight spots, and move the ball quickly - literally everything Mata isn't good at.
I don't see how he fits Arsene's mould, either. Again, he's too limited.
Mata has technique, but isn't able to do enough with it.
Last edited:
He has good technique but that isn't enough. He is a luxury player unfortunately. I was really excited when we signed him but he's been a major disappointment.
What on earth would Atletico want to do with Mata?Just spend wages for no reason on a player who doesn't improve them at all?
He's as far away from a physical/aggressive player as you can get, he's not got quick feet, he wants too long on the ball, he's useless defensively.
I wouldn't even say he's suited to La Liga. He looked good at Chelsea after all. He's just suited to a lesser team, who don't try to squeeze the pitch.
A counter-attacking team, who aren't that good, and don't expect him to put in a shift or be particularly well-rounded: That's Mata's best platform.
He'd look good at Palace, for example. And they'd appreciate his strengths so much that they'd allow for his weaknesses.
I kind of agree, but Mata needs to step up as well. Great players rise above the dross, and he's not been able to do that lately.
He used to be a brilliant footballer but he isn't anymore. Sometimes players just cannot recover their peak form. It happened, happens and will always happen. He's an average player now who can have the odd good game here and there.
Inclined to agree with you, he's very limited despite his technical ability, and liable to drift out of the game all too readily, I don't see where he has a future with us, does he have the skillset to play right side longterm? No, does he have the required skillset to play centrally, again, my opinion is no.
When he goes missing out on the right side, it's not too noticeable, when he drifts out of the game centrally... defensively, when we don't have the ball, it can really cost you.
Personally think we should let him go and recoup some of our money, Also agree on the Atletico point, he's a million miles from Simeones typical player.
Well you're underrating him massively. While he's not cut out for the very top teams, he's definitely fine for the level below, and just needs to play in the right system. And I'm pretty sure Atletico was interested in him last year, or there were plenty of rumors about it. Otherwise no he wouldn't suit them. But he's a class player, who just isn't suited to us at all, or the premier league. Yeah, he had a good season or 2 at Chelsea and he has his moments at United, but he'd just look better elsewhere where the game is less physical and more technical. After all, he looked our best player in the champions league games for the most part, and generally had a bigger impact then in the league (just like for Chelsea he tore up the Europa league in 12/13, where most of his best games came).
Just spend wages for no reason on a player who doesn't improve them at all?
He's as far away from a physical/aggressive player as you can get, he's not got quick feet, he wants too long on the ball, he's useless defensively.
I wouldn't even say he's suited to La Liga. He looked good at Chelsea after all. He's just suited to a lesser team, who don't try to squeeze the pitch.
A counter-attacking team, who aren't that good, and don't expect him to put in a shift or be particularly well-rounded: That's Mata's best platform.
He'd look good at Palace, for example. And they'd appreciate his strengths so much that they'd allow for his weaknesses.
One picture to summarize his recent performances:
I don't think his performances have declined (at least not by a huge margin), he's just not getting the numbers right. He still does the basics right like he always does, what combined with goals make people believe he had a good game. But in fact, he’s hardly influential.
We have better players in number 10 position but it’s criminal we didn’t get a right winger this summer.
We have better players in number 10 position but it’s criminal we didn’t get a right winger this summer.
Eh?
How does that show anything? It's completely without context, Martial is providing us width as he played on the right that day while Mata was playing as a 10.
He's also moving towards that space and if the ball was played into he'd be the first to it. If he was actually in that space already he'd have been marked and there wouldn't be that space.
The biggest issue there is Jones with his head down about to hit it towards Fellaini rather than looking to pick out a better pass.
Funny, but true unfortunately.
Why do we even bother buying no.10's? we just dont know what to do with attacking midfielders.
That said his performances have been masked by a reasonable Goal+assist return, problem is he should be having more of an effect on our general play, not playing like garbage for 85 minutes then playing a good pass or getting on the end of something.
Id take even that at this point, he just doesnt do anything when the chips are down, actually feck it, thats actually the most defining trait of our squad.
We dont have any players who are capable of turning a game around, or putting in a performance when things arent going well.
All of our players require a "if everyone else is playing well" or "would play better with better players around them" instead of saying feck this and grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck and dragging the rest of the team with them.
We need More Alexis sanchez's and less Juan Mata's.
That said his performances have been masked by a reasonable Goal+assist return, problem is he should be having more of an effect on our general play, not playing like garbage for 85 minutes then playing a good pass or getting on the end of something.
Id take even that at this point, he just doesnt do anything when the chips are down, actually feck it, thats actually the most defining trait of our squad.
We dont have any players who are capable of turning a game around, or putting in a performance when things arent going well.
All of our players require a "if everyone else is playing well" or "would play better with better players around them" instead of saying feck this and grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck and dragging the rest of the team with them.
We need More Alexis sanchez's and less Juan Mata's.
Was just watching a highlights clip of his 2012/13 season and just wow. He's definitely more second striker-esque, movement and finishing in abundance.
This slump he is in though right now...will pace around and in front of him solve it? Or is that just an easy excuse and has he done a Torres? Think he is a little gem of a player, hopefully we'll get to see his best.
This slump he is in though right now...will pace around and in front of him solve it? Or is that just an easy excuse and has he done a Torres? Think he is a little gem of a player, hopefully we'll get to see his best.
Last edited:
A really genuine question, are there players like that anymore? Suarez at Liverpool was a good example but there aren't many who can do that whether it's by scoring or playmaking.
Really didn't mean it to sound that Cliche
, I dont think it would even need to be players of the absolute rarity of a luiz suarez, but players who are able to put in a consistent level of performance regardless of their teammates not having a good game, we have far too many players who shrink under the pressure and expectancy in games and it leads to a bit of a chain reaction and then everyone else starts to play poorly.Like, look back over the last 7 games, can you remember one player genuinely standing out from the rest? to me every player out there whose job it is to effect a game has failed to do so in any way.
I think willian at chelsea has shown that mentality, Sanchez at arsenal has that quality
in spades, fernandinho at city/aguero when fit. The Javier Mascherano's of this world, Leonardo Bonucci at Juve.
I was really hoping Schweinsteiger would be that player for us.
Really didn't mean it to sound that Cliche
Like, look back over the last 7 games, can you remember one player genuinely standing out from the rest? to me every player out there whose job it is to effect a game has failed to do so in any way.
I think willian at chelsea has shown that mentality, Sanchez at arsenal has that quality
in spades, fernandinho at city/aguero when fit. The Javier Mascherano's of this world, Leonardo Bonucci at Juve.
I was really hoping Schweinsteiger would be that player for us.
You're right, we don't have any players like that. I don't expect much more from Mata tbh, people are still stuck with the player he used to be a Chelsea whereas I think he peaked over there and won't probably get back to a similar form.
Mahrez and Vardy? They are surrounded by total donkies, but have dragged their team to first place in the league.
For all the shit he's getting lately, and yes he's not been playing well for at least 2 months now, he's still scored more than any of our other players in 2015.
He's letting me down.
That is such a depressing list.
You're not wrong.
Others are shit as well? And to be fair, Herrera and Fellaini are even central midfielders. Rooney is crap.
See I don't think that's true. At various levels, I think Kante, Morgan and even Drinkwater all played at very good levels.
- Status