[Speak]

People go on about him being uncomfortable on the win as if he's actually really comfortable (and really effective) centrally.
Most of the time when he goes inside, he passes sideways (rarely forward), and doesn't look particularly comfortable in the actual central areas where he should be getting on the ball.

Basically he's not getting into (m)any of the areas that we actually need him to. Perhaps partly down to tactics, but also because he isn't capable. He gets it, drifts into a spacious central area and plays a simple (often 'safe') pass that barely impacts the game.

If any thing, van Gaal is doing him a favour by moving him out wide. Not only does it suit him more because he gets more room, but he also gets the benefit of the doubt from fans, because apparently he'd be miles better in the middle.

 

[championo]

I don't get the fuss about Mata. He is so slow, gets dispossess so easily. Is LVG using him that badly? Why did Jose sell this guy? When Jose sells you, you are usually shat.

 

[mufcwarm92]

I don't get the fuss about Mata. He is so slow, gets dispossess so easily. Is LVG using him that badly? Why did Jose sell this guy? When Jose sells you, you are usually shat.

Oh dear.

 

[Ish]

I don't get the fuss about Mata. He is so slow, gets dispossess so easily. Is LVG using him that badly? Why did Jose sell this guy? When Jose sells you, you are usually shat.

That last bit is a tad harsh. Mou sold him because of his work rate, and at that point he preferred Oscar. (Jose prefers a more physical/hardworking player over someone like Mata IMO).

Before Jose came in, Mata was twice their POTY, wasn't it?

 

[Speak]

I don't get the fuss about Mata. He is so slow, gets dispossess so easily. Is LVG using him that badly? Why did Jose sell this guy? When Jose sells you, you are usually shat.

I don't know about the Mourinho bit. He's not god, after all.

He's liked because he's good at putting the final touches on moves (scoring and final passes), has very nice (and 'pretty') technique, and did the business for Chelsea under a certain set of circumstances. Oh yeah... and because he's supposedly going to be miles better when everything is perfectly aligned in his favour.

But like you say, the fact that he's slow (both in terms of raw pace and with his use of the ball), can't hold the ball unless he distances himself from the opposition, can't beat a man, and basically lacks in quite a few key ways... is all overlooked. Things that have nothing to do with other people, or a 'lack of runners'.

As if Silva 'runs the show' (proper shows, that is, not rather iffy 0-0 shows) because of 'runners'. I'd say it has more to do with the fact that Silva can actually keep hold of the ball when the opposition nibble at him. And the fact he can turn a man consistently, and isn't forced to dribble sideways in order to avoid being tackled. That allows him to find the runners.
Mata lacks in those areas, so it's very convenient to blame it on runners and everything other that Mata himself.

If we're going to ask why Mata isn't imposing himself on games consistently, then let's look at the people who do, and what they do when they have the ball. Very few are as limited with the ball at the foot (and their back to goal, or at a 90 degree angle) as Mata is.

 

[mufcwarm92]

Quite the opposite of being a weakness, he's the only one who creates anything. So frustrating that we've dropped Herrera, as their partnership was one of the few promising signs from last season.

 

[itso 7]

And what exactly did we create in the last quarter of the game? Our best chances in the 2nd half were Hernandez getting lucky with a deflected effort, a corner and the chance Rooney set up for Mata. He moves central and creates barely and he's supposed to be the Mom and best attacking player? Give over. I didn't say he was bad nor did I ever mention his passing. He had a 90% pass success ratio so clearly passing wasn't an issue. I said he was ineffective and he was throughout.

The bit in bold is hilarious. First, it was that he needs Herrera next to him to play well. Then, he needed an 2 DM's behind and play centrally to be able to perform well even though his best form for United has come out wide and he's spent almost all of his career out wide. And now he needs Daniel Alves or Cafu to be able to rip teams to shreds. If we had Dani Alves we wouldn't need Mata. What next? Does he need Messi and Ronaldo up top to play through balls?

Talk about taking one harmless statement and writing a fecking book when you have misunderstood what I really meant. Ok let me explain again, by playing Mata on the wing with so many attackers out of form we are asking way too much of Darmian in attack - we need a quick winger on that side to get more out of our right side offensively. I was not saying we need Cafu/Alves to make Mata look good but that if we aim to continue in this vein we need our RB to be more of an attacking threat than Darmian!

 

[Speak]

People will claim Mata is as good as Silva under the right circumstances. Some will even say he was the best player in the league a few years ago. Yet Silva played over him for Spain over the years. Silva even played as a 'false nine' when Mata is a better finisher. That surely tells us something?

Unless Spain were also lacking the runners/quality Mata needed?

 

[Acole9]

We need to move him back to his favoured number 10 position. He's too slow out on the wing.

 

[chetan]

I don't get the fuss about Mata. He is so slow, gets dispossess so easily. Is LVG using him that badly? Why did Jose sell this guy? When Jose sells you, you are usually shat.

What a lazy analysis.
BTW Kevin De Bruyne says hello.

 

[sullydnl]

I don't know about the Mourinho bit. He's not god, after all.

He's liked because he's good at putting the final touches on moves (scoring and final passes), has very nice (and 'pretty') technique, and did the business for Chelsea under a certain set of circumstances. Oh yeah... and because he's supposedly going to be miles better when everything is perfectly aligned in his favour.

But like you say, the fact that he's slow (both in terms of raw pace and with his use of the ball), can't hold the ball unless he distances himself from the opposition, can't beat a man, and basically lacks in quite a few key ways... is all overlooked. Things that have nothing to do with other people, or a 'lack of runners'.

As if Silva 'runs the show' (proper shows, that is, not rather iffy 0-0 shows) because of 'runners'. I'd say it has more to do with the fact that Silva can actually keep hold of the ball when the opposition nibble at him. And the fact he can turn a man consistently, and isn't forced to dribble sideways in order to avoid being tackled. That allows him to find the runners.
Mata lacks in those areas, so it's very convenient to blame it on runners and everything other that Mata himself.

If we're going to ask why Mata isn't imposing himself on games consistently, then let's look at the people who do, and what they do when they have the ball. Very few are as limited with the ball at the foot (and their back to goal, or at a 90 degree angle) as Mata is.

You're right in so far as Mata will never run the show in the way Silva does (they're quite different players really), his weaknesses will exist wherever he plays and moving him to #10 won't suddenly make him a much better player.

It might make us a better team though. He might not be a perfect #10 but it isn't like there are any better than him in the squad. Even if he only maintained his current form, moving him into a central position would allow us to play with more width on the right, arguably making us a more effective team. It would also likely see him get into goalscoring positions more frequently, which is where he really is brilliant.

It's also worth pointing out that for all people complain about some lack of creativity and/or control on Mata's part, we still don't have many players better than him at it.

 

[Insanity]

Have to agree. Baffled at the widespread praise. All of Depay, Januzaj and Rooney looked more dangerous and all of them are are getting hell of a lot more stick on their threads. I can only assume it's his style of of play which is easy on the eye that masks how ineffective he can be.

He is a small, cuddly teddy bear who writes a blog (generic and bland, tbh).

I'm surprised to see people thought he was one of our best players against Newcastle, I think he's probably been the main reason we've been so poor offensively this season actually (and I love Mata as a player). He's incredibly slow, and I'm not talking about pace, I'm talking about ball retention and passing it. People complain about our slow tempo, but he's the main reason why. He doesn't misplace many passes, definitely, but I feel he's killing any kind of pace that could go into our attacks. It's no tragedy, either this is what VG wants and fair enough, and if it isn't, I'm sure Juan can be instructed to play with a bit more directness and speed.

Exactly. There are numerous times when he slows down the attack. Could run with the ball, instead takes a turn and passes it backwards. Very frustrating to watch.

The bad part is, I don't think there will be much difference if he is moved to number 10. The same issues will come to fore in that position too.

37m luxury buy.

 

[chetan]

He is a small, cuddly teddy bear who writes a blog (generic and bland, tbh).



Exactly. There are numerous times when he slows down the attack. Could run with the ball, instead takes a turn and passes it backwards. Very frustrating to watch.

The bad part is, I don't think there will be much difference if he is moved to number 10. The same issues will come to fore in that position too.

37m luxury buy.

Running at pace and beating a man is not the only form of attack. Today, he was the only player who looked to do something in the final third. For that matter when everyone was complaining about our dull play in the first 2 games, Mata was the only player who provided any little spark or any play that was pleasing to our eyes.

Yes, we do have lot of problems in our attack but Juan Mata is not one of them, atleast at this point

 

[Insanity]

Running at pace and beating a man is not the only form of attack. Today, he was the only player who looked to do something in the final third. For that matter when everyone was complaining about our dull play in the first 2 games, Mata was the only player who provided any little spark or any play that was pleasing to our eyes.

Yes, we do have lot of problems in our attack but Juan Mata is not one of them, atleast at this point

It may not be the only form, but it is a damn effective form of attack.

Newcastle gave us ample space to work with; they were happy to sit back and let us pass it around in front of their defense. Mata can't dribble, he is slow and ponderous on the ball and completely useless on the counter. The problem is that he doesn't do anything to effect the game. Did he dribble past anyone? Did he make one defense splitting pass? Januzaj, who is getting some flak for his performance, did it thrice.

Mata is not a player who is going to elevate a team, but someone who can be part an effective part of a good unit. As evidenced from the excuses that are made for him, seems like we need to create the perfect conditions for him to be good, until then, it's everybody else' fault.

He is one of problems in the attack, a big one. At this point, I wouldn't mind seeing Jesse Lingard play ahead of him on the right.

 

[bosnian_red]

It may not be the only form, but it is a damn effective form of attack.

Newcastle gave us ample space to work with; they were happy to sit back and let us pass it around in front of their defense. Mata can't dribble, he is slow and ponderous on the ball and completely useless on the counter. The problem is that he doesn't do anything to effect the game. Did he dribble past anyone? Did he make one defense splitting pass? Januzaj, who is getting some flak for his performance, did it thrice.

Mata is not a player who is going to elevate a team, but someone who can be part an effective part of a good unit. As evidenced from the excuses that are made for him, seems like we need to create the perfect conditions for him to be good, until then, it's everybody else' fault.

He is one of problems in the attack, a big one. At this point, I wouldn't mind seeing Jesse Lingard play ahead of him on the right.

Mata had 3 dribbles and created 5 opportunities, only Memphis had more dribbles at 7, and nobody got close to him for chances created (next highest at 2). Januzaj with 0 chances created and 1 dribble. So you're basically 100% wrong. He played a good amount of defence splitting through passes, like that clip to Rooney late on when Rooney's volley got blocked. And he's been creating plenty of chances every game and playing good through balls. You could make this criticism for mata last season, but this season he has looked far more creative and has been a lot more positive in his play. He's playing exactly like he should be in his role, and doing it well. It's not your fault if you just don't like wide playmakers and prefer old fashioned wingers.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

I don't get the fuss about Mata. He is so slow, gets dispossess so easily. Is LVG using him that badly? Why did Jose sell this guy? When Jose sells you, you are usually shat.

 

[Insanity]

Mata had 3 dribbles and created 5 opportunities, only Memphis had more dribbles at 7, and nobody got close to him for chances created (next highest at 2). Januzaj with 0 chances created and 1 dribble. So you're basically 100% wrong.

Stat attack.

Which were these chances Mata created? Can you elaborate? When did he dribble past an opponent and started an attack or trouble the Newcastle defense?

Januzaj played two excellent defense splitting passes through to Rooney and Depay. Also, played a brilliant little pass to free Darmian on the right.

 

[chetan]

It may not be the only form, but it is a damn effective form of attack.

Newcastle gave us ample space to work with; they were happy to sit back and let us pass it around in front of their defense. Mata can't dribble, he is slow and ponderous on the ball and completely useless on the counter. The problem is that he doesn't do anything to effect the game. Did he dribble past anyone? Did he make one defense splitting pass? Januzaj, who is getting some flak for his performance, did it thrice.

Mata is not a player who is going to elevate a team, but someone who can be part an effective part of a good unit. As evidenced from the excuses that are made for him, seems like we need to create the perfect conditions for him to be good, until then, it's everybody else' fault.

He is one of problems in the attack, a big one. At this point, I wouldn't mind seeing Jesse Lingard play ahead of him on the right.

He was the one who was trying to do something in the final third. I agree to a extent that he plays a little safe and that is more due to LVGs tactics rather than Mata himself. I remember 2 occasions when he tried a through ball only for Rooney turn back due to his lack of his pace.

The big problem in our attack today is Rooney our main striker who cannot score for shit, a young #10 in Januzaj who has not yet proved in any way that he can be the regular starter at this stage and a young winger in a new league who is trying too hard and who was played as # 10 for all of pre season and first game of the season for whatever reasons.

 

[criticalanalysis]

People go on about him being uncomfortable on the win as if he's actually really comfortable (and really effective) centrally.
Most of the time when he goes inside, he passes sideways (rarely forward), and doesn't look particularly comfortable in the actual central areas where he should be getting on the ball.

The obvious thing here is that once he moves inside centrally, there's no one on the right wing (apart from Darmian) so he's already lost 1 option there for a 1-2, link up play or through ball. Playing through Darmian there is risky because he'll have to come up against potentially 2 players covering him (left winger and left back), not to mention if he loses it there, we're fecked.

He passes square because that's the safer option to do when your other attacking players are so deep in the opposition's half; they're inviting the pass to intercept and counter attack.

There's two factors against Mata here, 1) he's not in any natural position to make the best passes he's capable of 2) we play far too slow as a result of his position and our players.

That's not defending when the times he does make mistakes though (including when he definitely should pass faster etc).

As if Silva 'runs the show' (proper shows, that is, not rather iffy 0-0 shows) because of 'runners'. I'd say it has more to do with the fact that Silva can actually keep hold of the ball when the opposition nibble at him. And the fact he can turn a man consistently, and isn't forced to dribble sideways in order to avoid being tackled. That allows him to find the runners.
Mata lacks in those areas, so it's very convenient to blame it on runners and everything other that Mata himself.

I'd agree Silva imo is a better player but the difference in their comparison is highly magnified by their current/past team set ups though. I'm not even sure Silva would be 'appreciated' in a Mourinho team; look at Ozil at Madrid being substituted consistently in the final third of the game, in a less physically demanding league and more dominant team.

Silva has played with Milner, Navas, Aguero, Dzeko, Toure, Fernandinho, Nasri etc etc which is almost a perfect blend of hard working, physically imposing, fast and technically profficient players. Mata in his time here? Young, Valencia, Carrick, Cleverley, Fletcher, Rooney, Rafael, RVP, Nani etc and of course the current lot. None there have had the right mix of any consistent form/quality, not to mention the managerial changes, his team mates' and his own changes of roles over that time.

Sure Silva has played from wide too and continues to do so but he's consistently been in the better situation to succeed than Mata.

If we're talking about players, who deserved more 'just' criticism imo then it should be Januzaj's display today. The 'problems' and excuses that can shield criticism from Mata still exist here but Januzaj needs to perform better to be justifying his place in the team atm (and I'm a massive fan). But again we can put that in context because that's only his 3rd game in his preferred role and he's only 20!

 

[Insanity]

He was the one who was trying to do something in the final third. I agree to a extent that he plays a little safe and that is more due to LVGs tactics rather than Mata himself. I remember 2 occasions when he tried a through ball only for Rooney turn back due to his lack of his pace.

The big problem in our attack today is Rooney our main striker who cannot score for shit, a young #10 in Januzaj who has not yet proved in any way that he can be the regular starter at this stage and a young winger in a new league who is trying too hard and who was played as # 10 for all of pre season and first game of the season for whatever reasons.

I don't think Rooney was that bad actually. Agree with the rest of your second paragraph and that the tactics are also to blame for the bluntness of our attack.

All of them were trying to do something. We didn't draw because of a lack of trying, we drew because of lack of ideas in the final third. Mata was as much a part of that as anyone else.

 

[United again!]

Have to agree. Baffled at the widespread praise. All of Depay, Januzaj and Rooney looked more dangerous and all of them are are getting hell of a lot more stick on their threads. I can only assume it's his style of of play which is easy on the eye that masks how ineffective he can be.

Agreed, no idea why people keep praising him. He's playing way to deep, slowing nearly every counter by standing behind the advance and waiting then holding up the ball and passing it backwards. Darmian keeps running up and then running back because Mata never gets in a decent position to overlap properly. If he does, Darmian's run is tracked completely and he can't get a decent ball off.

I just want Mata to stay on the left fullback on the line with Rooney. Mata plays to deep and it drags Rooney over to compensate and Depay/Young play to pushed up and on the outside to be effective. Our forward line basically looks like this;

/

One of those, the cutback was a real chance created, the one to the center was the shot for Rooney that basically had two defenders in front of him. No idea what the others were? His crossin was also 1/6 - two way over hit, one in behind that nobody was ever going to get to and one blocked.

Stats don't tell the full story here I am afraid.

 

[TwoSheds]

Played better towards the end but his first 70 mins he was the worst player on the pitch bar that Mbumble guy. Time to give Chich, Lingard, Pereira or Herrera a chance from the start next game instead? Or even Fellaini I suppose, certainly help our aerial threat and get Januzaj out right.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Agreed, no idea why people keep praising him. He's playing way to deep, slowing nearly every counter by standing behind the advance and waiting then holding up the ball and passing it backwards. Darmian keeps running up and then running back because Mata never gets in a decent position to overlap properly. If he does, Darmian's run is tracked completely and he can't get a decent ball off.

I just want Mata to stay on the left fullback on the line with Rooney. Mata plays to deep and it drags Rooney over to compensate and Depay/Young play to pushed up and on the outside to be effective. Our forward line basically looks like this;

/

One of those, the cutback was a real chance created, the one to the center was the shot for Rooney that basically had two defenders in front of him. No idea what the others were? His crossin was also 1/6 - two way over hit, one in behind that nobody was ever going to get to and one blocked.

Stats don't tell the full story here I am afraid.

Mata hit more forward passes then any of our attackers (51), he also has the highest percentage of forward passes on the team (about 60%), Depay is second with around 55%

I know its just stats, but clearly Mata does more then just pass it backwards. In fact, what I really liked about Mata's performance yesterday was that he was constantly demanding the ball. He'd slip it off to Carrick/Schweinsteiger and immediately be on the run to pick up the ball round the corner and then go on a run into a more central area - where he either fed in Depay/Shaw down the left or Darmian down the right. A few times he'd also go for the 1-2's off Rooney/Hernandez, but they didn't quite come off... still, at least he was trying to make things happen.

 

[Varun]

Played better towards the end but his first 70 mins he was the worst player on the pitch bar that Mbumble guy. Time to give Chich, Lingard, Pereira or Herrera a chance from the start next game instead? Or even Fellaini I suppose, certainly help our aerial threat and get Januzaj out right.

Incredible.

 

[DWelbz19]

Agreed. Mbemba isn't even that hard a name to spell.

 

[MoneyMay]

Mata had 3 dribbles and created 5 opportunities, only Memphis had more dribbles at 7, and nobody got close to him for chances created (next highest at 2). Januzaj with 0 chances created and 1 dribble. So you're basically 100% wrong. He played a good amount of defence splitting through passes, like that clip to Rooney late on when Rooney's volley got blocked. And he's been creating plenty of chances every game and playing good through balls. You could make this criticism for mata last season, but this season he has looked far more creative and has been a lot more positive in his play. He's playing exactly like he should be in his role, and doing it well. It's not your fault if you just don't like wide playmakers and prefer old fashioned wingers.

I think I've said this before, but the chances created stat is very misleading. It's basically a shot assist. If player x passes to player y who takes a shot from 50 yards, the pass leading to that shot is registered as a key pass/chance for player x. It's flawed and ridiculous. Januzaj created the best chance of the game, but that didn't register as a chance because Depay didn't take a shot.

 

[TwoSheds]

Mata hit more forward passes then any of our attackers (51), he also has the highest percentage of forward passes on the team (about 60%), Depay is second with around 55%

I know its just stats, but clearly Mata does more then just pass it backwards. In fact, what I really liked about Mata's performance yesterday was that he was constantly demanding the ball. He'd slip it off to Carrick/Schweinsteiger and immediately be on the run to pick up the ball round the corner and then go on a run into a more central area - where he either fed in Depay/Shaw down the left or Darmian down the right. A few times he'd also go for the 1-2's off Rooney/Hernandez, but they didn't quite come off... still, at least he was trying to make things happen.

Forward passes are all well and good but you have to try to play them before the defenders have a chance to get behind the ball. And if you stop running on a counter attack just so you can play a forward pass it's not much use because whoever you play it to will be on their own in all likelihood.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Forward passes are all well and good but you have to try to play them before the defenders have a chance to get behind the ball. And if you stop running on a counter attack just so you can play a forward pass it's not much use because whoever you play it to will be on their own in all likelihood.

Our entire team is guilty of taking far too many touches/spending way too long on the ball, this is not exclusive to Mata at all.

 

[Sammyjunn]

I wonder how the opinions differ so much, Im a huge Mata critic but thought he was brilliant yesterday. Almost every dangerous attack we had, was through him.

 

[NoLogo]

Don't you know Mou never makes a mistake. He has never sold a player that was actually any good or bought a player that didn't work out. Better stop your blasphemy before the cafquisition puts you on their shitlist.

 

[TwoSheds]

Our entire team is guilty of taking far too many touches/spending way too long on the ball, this is not exclusive to Mata at all.

True, but he is the worst culprit. And I don't think the quality of his passes/shots is making up for it at the moment. Time to put a player in who can actually make the right runs and provide a threat on the counter IMO.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

Strange how people slag him of when he is clearly playing very well at the moment. I've always loved the guy and he's been doing well out wide for me. He was working well with Darmian toob and tried a few balls on the overlap which Matteo didn't quote read as the understanding isn't there 100 percent yet but that will improve.

 

[Stack]

1st half all touches. Will try and do the 2nd half tonight.

 

[Cheesy]

1st half all touches. Will try and do the 2nd half tonight.

Watching that, he definitely looked a lot more dangerous when allowed to drift inside, which is to be expected. He's a useful player to have in the side: his plays quite intelligent and he's often making plenty of decent movement off the ball. He was sometimes guilty of perhaps slowing down the play, but he'd mostly make up for it with some nice little moves and passes. Usually reliable when he's on the ball.

 

[Stack]

1st half


2nd half

 

[Maroo]

I think he played much better in the other games this season. Did not do much in this game in terms of incisive passing - Januzaj was much better with two beautiful through balls. When he is on the wings and a third player like Herrera does not join him to create a triangle (like last season), it really limits his game.

 

[Lawman]

Watching that, he definitely looked a lot more dangerous when allowed to drift inside, which is to be expected. He's a useful player to have in the side: his plays quite intelligent and he's often making plenty of decent movement off the ball. He was sometimes guilty of perhaps slowing down the play, but he'd mostly make up for it with some nice little moves and passes. Usually reliable when he's on the ball.

Cheesy virtually everytime he gets the ball he comes backwards onto his left side. He kills all momentum on the right side of attack. Play the fella at the tip of our midfield or not at all imo. He is a class little player but due to his limitations he needs to have players around him to bring out his qualities (movement and pace is whats needed around him) right now he's stuck out right wing and is a massive part in our lack of creations of chances. It speaks volumes when our most creative player is killing our creativity.

 

[Trigg]

I thought he looked dangerous against Newcastle. Especially when he was drifting inside. The only problem with that is that there's no one on the right to stretch the play which in turn congests the middle. If we can get another wide right player with pace and play Mata centrally I think we'll get the best out of him. I think it might also help Rooney too and lets be honest he needs all the help he can get!

 

[Amar__]

It's funny that pretty much people who are criticizeing him(with few exceptions) are hardcore Rooney fans who still can't see anything wrong with their hero but yet Mata is at fault for everything.

 

[Trigg]

It's funny that pretty much people who are criticisizeing him(with few exceptions) are hardcore Rooney fans who still can't see anything wrong with their hero but yet Mata is at fault for everything.

Never understood this. Surely people are hardcore Manchester United fans and not individual player fans. Seems weird. I think the thing with Mata is unless he's scored or created a goal his play style is more subtle and a little bit difficult to see. He also relies on movement around him, something which he's not getting a lot of at the moment. Rooney being a main culprit.