He can do a lot more on the creative side of things, but goals are the most valuable thing in the entire game. I'd rather he continued banging in goals at the rate he is than assist every game. Plus, we've been missing goals from midfield severely for years now.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Well that's just mental. You'd rather he continues at his rate of scoring 0.42 goals per game than assist 1 goal per game.
Pretty sure he's talking about the fact he's scored 8 in his last ten games.
Still, 1 assist per game > 0.8 goals per game.
No gif of that bit of skill he did to try to get into the box?
I think a lot of people want him to get direct assists, but he is involved in a lot of our build up and he's good at that initial pass that sets up the start of a move. Plus he creates so much space for our strikers, he drifts all over the place in that pocket.
I still do not get these rumours of swapping mata for strootman, yea strootman is a good player, but I do not see replacing mata with strootman I see has an upgrade. Get mata taking our freekicks in beckham like area's, that is another weapon to have in our ranks
I don't get the talk of selling mata either, he's quality and there's players I'd see the back of before mata, but where we to sell would he really go for 20m, almost half his purchase price, come on!!
The media will always try to stir up some shit even when the evidence suggests otherwise. I think he is showing, in a very good way but quietly, an important aspect of his game by being very productive even when he hasn't looked near his best for most parts of his time here. I don't think that Van Gaal would be so stupid as to sell a twenty six year old AM to accommodate three aging strikers. He will find himself on the bench, when the coach deems it necessary just like any other player, but indications are that Van Gaal rates him highly.
I'd rather have player who'd score 40 goals in 50 games, than has 50 assists.
One provided 40 goals, other 50, it's illogical to want more the former one.
It is truly bonkers.
It's madness to think 40 goals by one person is better than 50 goals by other players assisted by said person.
It's actually not all that clear cut. For example, you might have an absolutely fantastic striker (Messi or Ronaldo) who inflates the assists record of all those players around him (I'm looking at you, Mr Ozil) At the end of the day, goals scored is the most rudimentary statistic in football. Everything else is slightly more likely to be deceptive.
Assists and goals produce the same end result so why would one prefer one of number in comparison to the other ? Makes no sense to me.
Yet without the assister, Ronaldo and Messi would still not have got those goals. An assist whoever the pass is to and whatever the situation is always equates to a goal and therefore is as valuable as a goal. You can look at Ozil all you like, he was the 3rd highest assister in the Premier League last season.
They're equivalent in their value to the team but if you're judging individual players someone with x amount of goals might be valued more highly than someone with x amount of assists.
Just look at Ashley Young's stats for Villa if you want to see how misleading assists can be. They scored almost all their goals from set pieces and he took all their set pieces. As we've seen that doesn't translate so well to a team that expects their wingers to have a bit more to their game.
You could say similar about players who take penalties though, no?
I think it's dependent on the player, really. I'm less worried about goals with a player like Di Maria and more interested in assists, because that's what we'll be reliant on. Likewise I'm more interested in goals from RvP and Falcao.
In the end what matters the most for me is what the single person can bring to the team, whether it's goals or assists. A player can rack up a big scoring tally while taking many penalty kicks.
Yep. Diego Costa with 40 goals will be more valuable than Mata with 50 assists. I'd prefer we have a front three of Rooney, Falcao, Mata that score 30, 30, and 40 goals , than have 30 and 30 goals, and 50 assists respectively.
But of course, players performance as a whole is more important.
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Ignore the stats. Rooney's goal at the weekend would not have happened had Mata not linked up so well with Herrera in the middle of the park. Their technique, ability to create space and all round game produced that goal. Mata hasn't got an assist or goal ticked alongside his name for that move, but his one-two with Herrera was a massive part of that goal. That's what counts.
Exactly. I always cite a goal like the one below as an example of how you can be a huge part in creating a goal yet not actually get an assist. Rooney does some great work to set up Scholes to cross.
Phrase it like that, of course. One gives you guaranteed 100 goals, other 60.
Yep. It's a no brainer.
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Mata's performances for Man Utd could see him recalled to the Spanish side if Del Bosque still thinks he needs a false #9.
Its interesting that Van Gaal has his forwards split and go either side of Mata when we don't have the ball, effectively Mata plays centre forward when we defend. When we have the ball this changes and Mata drops off, bolstering midfield and allowing us to gain a numerical advantage in the middle third. If you count pre-season, more than once the role Mata's playing has had a huge impact. The third goal against QPR was a great example. In the build up to that goal Di Maria, Herrera and Mata are all in the inside left channel, which created the angles that allowed us to move the ball rapidly around QPR and up to Rooney. Of course, Herrera still had to be gifted enough at one touch passing, and quick enough upstairs to go with the play, but the fact he had Di Maria and Mata close made it possible to play the pass and move game Herrera excels at.
What Mata's doing for us is exactly what a false #9 is meant to do. Furthermore, I don't think I have seen any other Spaniard do it quite as well. I always felt Cesc was ill suited to that role and I'm not sold on David Silva acting as the central focal point of Spain's attack either. Silva is less direct and less muscular in his play than Mata, he works better off other players drifting in off the flanks. If given the chance I could see Mata thriving as a false #9 for Spain.
Its interesting that Van Gaal has his forwards split and go either side of Mata when we don't have the ball, effectively Mata plays centre forward when we defend. When we have the ball this changes and Mata drops off, bolstering midfield and allowing us to gain a numerical advantage in the middle third. If you count pre-season, more than once the role Mata's playing has had a huge impact. The third goal against QPR was a great example. In the build up to that goal Di Maria, Herrera and Mata are all in the inside left channel, which created the angles that allowed us to move the ball rapidly around QPR and up to Rooney. Of course, Herrera still had to be gifted enough at one touch passing, and quick enough upstairs to go with the play, but the fact he had Di Maria and Mata close made it possible to play the pass and move game Herrera excels at.
What Mata's doing for us is exactly what a false #9 is meant to do. Furthermore, I don't think I have seen any other Spaniard do it quite as well. I always felt Cesc was ill suited to that role and I'm not sold on David Silva acting as the central focal point of Spain's attack either. Silva is less direct and less muscular in his play than Mata, he works better off other players drifting in off the flanks. If given the chance I could see Mata thriving as a false #9 for Spain.
That idea is interesting, and I've thought about it earlier as well. While Mata has some skills to be able to play the false. 9- namely an ability to engage the center backs, good finishing ability, top vision, movement and passing skills onto wings/on rushing midfielders he lacks a couple of attributes IMO. And those are dribbling and ability to beat defenders/ run in behind with his pace. Mind you, Mata has good movement, but probably not the most electric pace.
Of course, the false. 9 is not an easy position and IMO neither Fab nor Silva has been uber successful at it. Its difficult because you really need the full set of skills - pace, finishing, movement, vision, passing, dribbling. Not everyone is a Messi who could possess these skills.
Why I got thinking about it was because of what Mata said before he went to the world cup in an interview with Sid Lowe. I'll produce the relevant part here:
@Maroo Interesting quotes. I get what you are saying about Mata's pace but I think you are underestimating him a little. You're right to point out Mata's not Messi-lite, but Thomas Muller has played false #9 effectively and he's not like Messi either. I think Mata's intelligent enough to make it work, especially with the practice he's getting in Van Gaal's system.
Hahaha - Muller: Like a lot of people, I don't understand his play! He is effective though.
Again, as I said I feel Mata is sharp, has good movement. In the last game against QPR, he covered amongst the highest distances in the minutes that he played also implying that we in this Forum often underestimate him. But my gut feeling is that it will not be easy for him to beat defenders as he is not a natural "dribbler" or someone who can run in behind. Again - something which we cannot be sure about till he plays the false.9 or striker role.
With respect to Muller, and him duelling with defenders, this is what he has to say (Recent interview with Honigstein):
So essentially he says that he works well as a false. 9 because he is a space master; always looks to get into little pockets of space. I think Mata can do that, but we've not tested that. Where Mata works for me is his ability to work the ball through tight spaces beautifully and find that teammate or make brave forward passes.
Indeed, for me Juan Mata's acid test starts now with a team that has much more attacking confidence, fluidity and movement around him, both on and off the ball, this is what surely works to his strengths?
The QPR game was the start of his and our season for me.
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Amen
A lot of his assists at Chelsea were from set-piece delivery, which is exceptional, but it was a bit off in the first few games and now it seems as though Di Maria has usurped him.
For me, he's our best free-kick taker in goal scoring positions. I'm screaming at Rooney to feck off every time we get one! We've got an impressive set of set piece takers to be fair
For me, he's our best free-kick taker in goal scoring positions. I'm screaming at Rooney to feck off every time we get one! We've got an impressive set of set piece takers to be fair
50 assists implies that someone scored 50 goals. 50 goals>40 goals.
What? There are 10 other players on the team. Like I've said before, would you rather have Rooney - Mata at 30 and 40 goals, or at 30 goals and 50 assists?
I see him as a false nine.
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