[Walrus]

He's not a luxury player. A luxury player doesn't show up in big games (Liverpool, City). Its true he doesn't offer much defensively but his defensive frailties have been overplayed.

I think he is almost the very definition of a luxury player, and disagree with your definition (doesnt show up in big games). A luxury player is one who must be carried somewhat by the team, who is "the icing on the cake". A player who when the team is playing well, will look even better [than the rest of the team], but when the team is playing poorly, will be one of the most invisible.
I said the same about Kagawa.

Regarding defensive frailties - it was his failure to track Silva yesterday that led to City's opening goal on 8 minutes, which could have cued a disastrous result for us.

I dont think LVG would be prepared to use Mata in a central role, due to the above, and I think that if Di Maria was in better form he would be starting ahead of Mata on the right.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I think he is almost the very definition of a luxury player, and disagree with your definition (doesnt show up in big games). A luxury player is one who must be carried somewhat by the team, who is "the icing on the cake". A player who when the team is playing well, will look even better [than the rest of the team], but when the team is playing poorly, will be one of the most invisible.
I said the same about Kagawa.

Regarding defensive frailties - it was his failure to track Silva yesterday that led to City's opening goal on 8 minutes, which could have cued a disastrous result for us.

I dont think LVG would be prepared to use Mata in a central role, due to the above, and I think that if Di Maria was in better form he would be starting ahead of Mata on the right.

It was also a failure on Valencia for not picking up Milner, Carrick for not getting to Silva and Jones for not doing a great job of cutting out the pass too Aguero... fact is, it was the first 5-10 minutes, and there was a long way to go before any "disastrous" result occurred.

The whole team didn't start well yesterday, but from 20 minutes onwards, everyone got more organised, defended properly - Mata included.

 

[prarek]

I think he is almost the very definition of a luxury player, and disagree with your definition (doesnt show up in big games). A luxury player is one who must be carried somewhat by the team, who is "the icing on the cake". A player who when the team is playing well, will look even better [than the rest of the team], but when the team is playing poorly, will be one of the most invisible.
I said the same about Kagawa.

Mata was good yesterday but certainly wasn't our best player(Young was MOTM, Fellaini, Herrera were equally as good if not better). And there's been plenty of times this season where we were poor but Mata wasn't the worst player on the pitch. He's not a luxury player even by your own definition.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Leave him as part of the attack. His midfield play has never been that great in essence he isn't an Iniesta more of a ronaldinho. He's not one to organise the team and get us moving forward. Not one to create space for others by attracting opponents and realising team-mates into space. Not one to drive past midfielders thus breaching midfield lines. Instead, he's a final third player. Put him there and he just knows how goals are scored and created. Put him in front of goal and he's finding the back of the net. Has a great final pass on him and reads the play and spots gaps quicker than most players. He's a big time footballer and thankfully we're starting to get some great football out of him as he's such a big asset.

 

[Walrus]

It was also a failure on Valencia for not picking up Milner, Carrick for not getting to Silva and Jones for not doing a great job of cutting out the pass too Aguero... fact is, it was the first 5-10 minutes, and there was a long way to go before any "disastrous" result occurred.

The whole team didn't start well yesterday, but from 20 minutes onwards, everyone got more organised, defended properly - Mata included.

There were definitely other players at fault than Mata, but im just saying that he was a part of it as it is a convenient example of what I was saying. I dont think even the staunchest Mata fans can argue that he offers as much defensively as Young, Di Maria, Fellaini, Herrera, Valencia (when he was playing as a winger) or Rooney. The fact that both Mourinho and LVG have refused to utilise him as a #10 (preferring Oscar and Fellaini respectively - both of whom offer more defensively but perhaps less offensively than Mata) is proof of this I think.

Mata was good yesterday but certainly wasn't our best player(Young was MOTM, Fellaini, Herrera were equally as good if not better). And there's been plenty of times this season where we were poor but Mata wasn't the worst player on the pitch. He's not a luxury player even by your own definition.

Well we all have our opinions - but generally I do think that if Mata starts a game and the team is playing badly, he will typically be a complete passenger. Its a tradeoff as to whether the manager feels his offensive contribution is worth it, just like when SAF sacrificed other areas of the team to accomodate Ronaldo. Obviously at the moment LVG feels (and I agree) that Mata is in excellent form, so he should continue to start.

 

[sullydnl]

I wish all of our players contributed as much end product as Mata does when he's a "passenger".

 

[Brophs]

He's definitely working harder and playing slightly differently. Whether that can, or will last remains to be seen. Great to see him playing like this, though. His ability on the ball is something we should be aiming for, IMO.

That said - and I might be crazy - but I still see him as vulnerable this summer.

 

[prarek]

Well we all have our opinions - but generally I do think that if Mata starts a game and the team is playing badly, he will typically be a complete passenger. Its a tradeoff as to whether the manager feels his offensive contribution is worth it, just like when SAF sacrificed other areas of the team to accomodate Ronaldo. Obviously at the moment LVG feels (and I agree) that Mata is in excellent form, so he should continue to start.

Yep its all about opinions. Generally speaking when a team plays poorly most of the players tends to struggle. This could be said about 90 percent of all players. If not then the team wouldn't be playing poorly in the first place. Mata has his limitations, he made some good tackles yesterday but he will NEVER be a great tackler, that's just not his game. But his defensive frailties have been unfairly overplayed.

There will be games that won't suit him and he doesn't offer much defensively but as that article earlier posted shows his defensive contribution is no different to many other top class playmakers. But we rarely see them getting criticized for it. Also Mata was top 3 in terms of winning possession in the final third in 2012/13 season. This was BEFORE Mourinho came back to Chelsea and benched him. Funny how he's got a reputation of being lazy since then.

2012/13 Season

55 games - 20 goals, 28 assists.

 

[Shark]

For a player who isn't a deadly striker, his calmness bearing down on goal is quite simply brilliant. You can see in one of the angles, he is running, looking at Hart and the goal while still taking touches on the ball. Amazing ball control in a pressure situation.

For those wanting him to score the winner at the Bridge, as much as that would send me over the edge, he is just too nice to do that to Chelsea. He will round the keeper and square it to Herrera for a tap in.

Is he? as nice as he is, he plays for United and that was his decision. Chelsea are our rivals and I'd expect him to act professionally and score against the chavs.

 

[Walrus]

Yep its all about opinions. Generally speaking when a team plays poorly most of the players tends to struggle. This could be said about 90 percent of all players. If not then the team wouldn't be playing poorly in the first place. Mata has his limitations, he made some good tackles yesterday but he will NEVER be a great tackler, that's just not his game. But his defensive frailties have been unfairly overplayed.

There will be games that won't suit him and he doesn't offer much defensively but as that article earlier posted shows his defensive contribution is no different to many other top class playmakers. But we rarely see them getting criticized for it. Also Mata was top 3 in terms of winning possession in the final third in 2012/13 season. This was BEFORE Mourinho came back to Chelsea and benched him. Funny how he's got a reputation of being lazy since then.

Not always - a lot of the really top class players can still look very dangerous even when the rest of the team is playing badly. Suarez, Aguero, Hazard, Ronaldo (when he played for us - although obviously still the case) - these are players who always look dangerous (Suarez in more ways than one...). Not every player is like that of course, but it isnt black and white. Again for me, players like Mata and Kagawa are very much "the icing on the cake" - if you play well, they make you even better, but if you play badly, they will often be one of the worst.

As you said, he will never be a great tackler, it isnt his game - similarly Fellaini will never be spraying out 50 yard passes, and Carrick wont be scoring 10+ per season. This is fair - the thing that I think Mata lacks however, is some work rate/ethic as far as tracking back and defending goes. Hazard is a great example of this - when he went to Chelsea originally he was seen as quite lazy I think. Mourinho even came out and publicly said he needs to work harder. Now, he has very much added that to his game, as has Oscar (although he was already a fairly hard worker).

For me, work rate isnt a "not his game" quality. Some players like Zlatan can get away with it because they are a) world class and/or b) play in a less physically demanding position (striker). For a midfielder or winger though, its very hard to get away with it. Even Ronaldo was always praised due to his athleticism and work rate, and he was/is one of the players who could arguably get away with being lazy simply because of how good they are (in fact since joining Madrid I think Cristiano has gotten progressively lazier, but that is as much due to the circus that is Madrid, as anything else).

Work rate is important in the PL. Look at the comparative differences between Ozil and Sanchez in terms of how big a success they have been at Arsenal. Look at Willian, who was never deemed to be a *great* player but who is now pretty much undisputed first choice for Chelsea, and has been for some time. I already mentioned Oscar and Hazard (and the fact that Mourinho sold Mata himself). Look at how effective Suarez was at Liverpool, look at how Milner has become one of City's arguably most important players this season.

There is a definite theme and correlation here - that if you want to be a truly top player in the PL, you pretty much need to have work ethic, as well as skill. Naturally there are exceptions, but those are exceptions, for exceptional players where the sacrifice is worth making.

What I am basically saying from all this is that yes, Mata is playing well at the moment, and he deserves to stay in the team without a doubt. However for me until he improves his work rate in terms of tracking back and defending (or his "attacking" improves to "one of the best in the world" standard) he will never be recognised as a truly great player (not in the PL at least), and that someone like Di Maria you can argue would have a higher 'ceiling' for us in this respect.

 

[Annahnomoss]

He's become quite an odd player hasn't he in his wing role? He's completely revamped his identity as a typical Spanish possession number 10 to what he is now.

His off the ball runs are great, he challenges his full back nonstop and then sometimes he decides to switch his old style on and he starts playing great pass-and-move football with Herrera or dropping centrally to do the same.

More interceptions/Tackles than Young yesterday and as many as Herrera and is absolutely great in our pressing game. Him and Herrera really leads by example when it comes to intelligent pressing.

The best example was late in the game when we were dropping back way too deep and letting Chelsea dominate the game too close to our area and Herrera showed true leadership and started pressing and the team followed the example.

Rooney has done really well in that regard too. Defensively, now when we use pressing, I think our right side is stronger than the Young-Fellaini side which says a lot.

 

[cyberman]

He's become quite an odd player hasn't he in his wing role? He's completely revamped his identity as a typical Spanish possession number 10 to what he is now.

His off the ball runs are great, he challenges his full back nonstop and then sometimes he decides to switch his old style on and he starts playing great pass-and-move football with Herrera or dropping centrally to do the same.

More interceptions/Tackles than Young yesterday and as many as Herrera and is absolutely great in our pressing game. Him and Herrera really leads by example when it comes to intelligent pressing.

The best example was late in the game when we were dropping back way too deep and letting Chelsea dominate the game too close to our area and Herrera showed true leadership and started pressing and the team followed the example.

Rooney has done really well in that regard too. Defensively, now when we use pressing, I think our right side is stronger than the Young-Fellaini side which says a lot.

I get what you're saying, but isn't Mata essentially playing in the same position that made one one of Europe's outstanding young talents at Valencia?
It always confused me when posters claimed he couldn't play from wide.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I get what you're saying, but isn't Mata essentially playing in the same position that made one one of Europe's outstanding young talents at Valencia?
It always confused me when posters claimed he couldn't play from wide.

If someone ever said Mata never could play out wide then they clearly didn't see him at Valencia, he was very good there. I think people have questioned whether or not he could do it to the same level that he played for Chelsea as an CAM, whether or not he could find that form and ability again in a different league under different circumstances.

Nobody can say that Rooney was bad out wide earlier in his career, but it doesn't mean that he'd be able to redo it for us right now and be as useful as he could be elsewhere.

 

[prarek]

Not always - a lot of the really top class players can still look very dangerous even when the rest of the team is playing badly. Suarez, Aguero, Hazard, Ronaldo (when he played for us - although obviously still the case) - these are players who always look dangerous (Suarez in more ways than one...). Not every player is like that of course, but it isnt black and white. Again for me, players like Mata and Kagawa are very much "the icing on the cake" - if you play well, they make you even better, but if you play badly, they will often be one of the worst.

As you said, he will never be a great tackler, it isnt his game - similarly Fellaini will never be spraying out 50 yard passes, and Carrick wont be scoring 10+ per season. This is fair - the thing that I think Mata lacks however, is some work rate/ethic as far as tracking back and defending goes. Hazard is a great example of this - when he went to Chelsea originally he was seen as quite lazy I think. Mourinho even came out and publicly said he needs to work harder. Now, he has very much added that to his game, as has Oscar (although he was already a fairly hard worker).

For me, work rate isnt a "not his game" quality. Some players like Zlatan can get away with it because they are a) world class and/or b) play in a less physically demanding position (striker). For a midfielder or winger though, its very hard to get away with it. Even Ronaldo was always praised due to his athleticism and work rate, and he was/is one of the players who could arguably get away with being lazy simply because of how good they are (in fact since joining Madrid I think Cristiano has gotten progressively lazier, but that is as much due to the circus that is Madrid, as anything else).

Work rate is important in the PL. Look at the comparative differences between Ozil and Sanchez in terms of how big a success they have been at Arsenal. Look at Willian, who was never deemed to be a *great* player but who is now pretty much undisputed first choice for Chelsea, and has been for some time. I already mentioned Oscar and Hazard (and the fact that Mourinho sold Mata himself). Look at how effective Suarez was at Liverpool, look at how Milner has become one of City's arguably most important players this season.

There is a definite theme and correlation here - that if you want to be a truly top player in the PL, you pretty much need to have work ethic, as well as skill. Naturally there are exceptions, but those are exceptions, for exceptional players where the sacrifice is worth making.

What I am basically saying from all this is that yes, Mata is playing well at the moment, and he deserves to stay in the team without a doubt. However for me until he improves his work rate in terms of tracking back and defending (or his "attacking" improves to "one of the best in the world" standard) he will never be recognised as a truly great player (not in the PL at least), and that someone like Di Maria you can argue would have a higher 'ceiling' for us in this respect.

You make some very good points. The players you mentioned can be put into the 10% category i was talking about. And we both agree that Mata isn't the best defensively. What we don't agree perhaps is that Mata's workrate has never been that bad in general in the past. As i showed in 2012/13 season he was top 3 in terms of winning the ball in the final third. Another article as posted by #07. And i highlight this part.

Certainly during the past three months it has been possible to question the Mourinho-ish vogue for insisting the one quality attacking midfielders must have above all others is defensive discipline. For one thing Mata’s defensive frailties are perhaps overplayed. He will never be a tackler but under van Gaal he has made more interceptions per game than Cesc Fàbregas, Oscar, David Silva and Mesut Özil. Willian has made marginally more tackles (by 0.2 per game) and been dribbled past 0.3 times fewer. Against that Mata’s passing accuracy is better and despite playing less than Willian he has been directly involved in twice as many goals. At which point you start to wonder exactly which of these two attacking midfielders is failing to do some vital part of his job.

 

[Walrus]

You make some very good points. The players you mentioned can be put into the 10% category i was talking about. And we both agree that Mata isn't the best defensively. What we don't agree perhaps is that Mata's workrate has never been that bad in general in the past. As i showed in 2012/13 season he was top 3 in terms of winning the ball in the final third. Another article as posted by #07. And i highlight this part.

Certainly during the past three months it has been possible to question the Mourinho-ish vogue for insisting the one quality attacking midfielders must have above all others is defensive discipline. For one thing Mata’s defensive frailties are perhaps overplayed. He will never be a tackler but under van Gaal he has made more interceptions per game than Cesc Fàbregas, Oscar, David Silva and Mesut Özil. Willian has made marginally more tackles (by 0.2 per game) and been dribbled past 0.3 times fewer. Against that Mata’s passing accuracy is better and despite playing less than Willian he has been directly involved in twice as many goals. At which point you start to wonder exactly which of these two attacking midfielders is failing to do some vital part of his job.

Call it nitpicking, but I am really specifically talking about tracking back (and similar) - which is for me the single most important factor, and something I would put into a different category to "pressing".

So yes, interceptions, winning the ball in the final third and the likes is one area of overall defensive contribution, but the other area which - which is basically what happens outside of the final third - is what I am primarily talking about.

Again, it may seem like a small thing, and you can argue "well if he can do x, y and z then surely it doesnt matter if he lacks this one particular thing" - but for me, tracking back and helping the team defend in our half of the pitch is the most important thing.

Pressing the opponent high up the pitch can almost be argued as part of a players "attacking" qualities, since the outcome is often to create a chance for us to score [if we win the ball off their defenders, for instance]. Defending is about preventing the opposition from scoring though - and whilst obviously they cant score if they dont have the ball - I have felt in recent games that Valencia and Smalling look particularly exposed and outnumbered in our half of the pitch - and that is because Mata is often nowhere to be seen.

It doesnt matter if he isnt a great tackler, what is important is to track his man and make up the numbers, rather than leaving a potential 2v3 situation when defending on the right.

 

[prarek]

Call it nitpicking, but I am really specifically talking about tracking back (and similar) - which is for me the single most important factor, and something I would put into a different category to "pressing".

So yes, interceptions, winning the ball in the final third and the likes is one area of overall defensive contribution, but the other area which - which is basically what happens outside of the final third - is what I am primarily talking about.

Again, it may seem like a small thing, and you can argue "well if he can do x, y and z then surely it doesnt matter if he lacks this one particular thing" - but for me, tracking back and helping the team defend in our half of the pitch is the most important thing.

Pressing the opponent high up the pitch can almost be argued as part of a players "attacking" qualities, since the outcome is often to create a chance for us to score [if we win the ball off their defenders, for instance]. Defending is about preventing the opposition from scoring though - and whilst obviously they cant score if they dont have the ball - I have felt in recent games that Valencia and Smalling look particularly exposed and outnumbered in our half of the pitch - and that is because Mata is often nowhere to be seen.

It doesnt matter if he isnt a great tackler, what is important is to track his man and make up the numbers, rather than leaving a potential 2v3 situation when defending on the right.

Fair enough. Id love to see a statistic of possession won in own half, or a 'distance run tracking' or something like that(not sure if anyone even keeps a track of those stats). But i won't be surprised if Mata is no different to any other playmakers like Silva, Ozil, Nasri etc. What we do know however is that he puts in the shift in the other half. For tracking players in our own half he's probably not the best, i can't argue with that. Personally i do think he puts in the shift, he's just not very good at it, like most other playmakers.

 

[Walrus]

Fair enough. Id love to see a statistic of possession won in own half, or a 'distance run tracking' or something like that(not sure if anyone even keeps a track of those stats). But i won't be surprised if Mata is no different to any other playmakers like Silva, Ozil, Nasri etc. What we do know however is that he puts in the shift in the other half. For tracking players in our own half he's probably not the best, i can't argue with that. Personally i do think he puts in the shift, he's just not very good at it, like most other playmakers.

Aye, like you said its hard to truly judge without seeing the stats. Still though I do think Valencia and Smalling have looked more exposed than Blind and Jones, due to the amount of defensive work Young/Fellaini put in compared with Herrera/Mata (primarily Mata though).

 

[Escobar]

He's tracking back lately has been very good as was his work rate. No complains at all from me. But the main attributes he should be judged on is rather his offensive contribution

 

[OneUnited24]

I think hes been awesome for us and i would love to see us build a team around him.

As it stands I'm still worried that LvG will get rid of him in the summer even after how great hes been for us, i donno why but i just can't shake the feeling and i wish i could.

 

[TwoSheds]

He's obviously not as good at tracking back as Young (who can play full back it should be noted), but he's been streets ahead of Di Maria in this regard for my money so I've no complaints. My issue with his defending earlier in the season was that he was being easily shrugged off the ball and lost every 50/50, but now with his new found confidence he's putting himself about, winning fouls and generally making himself a nuisance whenever we don't have the ball. With a physique like his, I couldn't ask for any more.

 

[JPRouve]

I get what you're saying, but isn't Mata essentially playing in the same position that made one one of Europe's outstanding young talents at Valencia?
It always confused me when posters claimed he couldn't play from wide.

No, he was playing on the left, Joaquin and Pablo Hernandez were the right wingers.

 

[beergod]

We have always known that Mata offers a lot going forwards, this was never in question. His limitations are that he is a luxury player who offers very little defensively - I think this is why he struggled to get gametime in central positions under Mourinho, and has similarly been using by LVG out wide. It is no coincidence that LVG prefers players like Fellaini and Rooney in the central positions, who offer better workrate and tracking back whilst still contributing in attack.

I am pleased that Mata has come into form, especially now at the crucial end of the season, but for a player who can be a complete passenger, I feel he needs to be performing at this sort of level to justify his place in the team.

I actually think he's starting to surpass his Chelsea form. He's becoming a more complete player and almost something of a terrier in this current system with his tackles and pressing - both of which are not only becoming more frequent, but also more effective and are done with the high intelligence the rest of his game is played at.

I think that what is working so well for him defensively is that we are extremely compact and it relies more on him being in the proper position instead of pure workrate. He isn't a good fit out wide for a Mourinho side, because Mourinho wants to set his team up deeper and hit with pace on the counter while we are looking to dominate possession with a high line. He fits very well out wide in our setup, because it allows him to do everything he was good at when he was in his pomp at Chelsea and allows him to flit in and out of the game. He wasn't going to fit as the primary playmaker most of us thought he would play as, but he is perfect for his current role. I thought he would be off due to not fitting in to what LvG wants out of his #10 and never thought he would slot seamlessly wide right.

 

[RDCR07]

Just looked at his goal again and saw how calm he remained. I thought he missed his chance to shoot at first but then he coolly slots it in between the legs of the keeper.

 

[legball]

I think he is almost the very definition of a luxury player, and disagree with your definition (doesnt show up in big games). A luxury player is one who must be carried somewhat by the team, who is "the icing on the cake". A player who when the team is playing well, will look even better [than the rest of the team], but when the team is playing poorly, will be one of the most invisible.
I said the same about Kagawa.

Regarding defensive frailties - it was his failure to track Silva yesterday that led to City's opening goal on 8 minutes, which could have cued a disastrous result for us.

I dont think LVG would be prepared to use Mata in a central role, due to the above, and I think that if Di Maria was in better form he would be starting ahead of Mata on the right.

He was never getting close to Silva, Carrick was goal side, in a better position and should have blocked off Silva's run, I've seen the game like 5 times again. Before that too, Valencia and Herrera lost their men.

 

[prarek]

I think that what is working so well for him defensively is that we are extremely compact and it relies more on him being in the proper position instead of pure workrate. He isn't a good fit out wide for a Mourinho side, because Mourinho wants to set his team up deeper and hit with pace on the counter while we are looking to dominate possession with a high line. He fits very well out wide in our setup, because it allows him to do everything he was good at when he was in his pomp at Chelsea and allows him to flit in and out of the game. He wasn't going to fit as the primary playmaker most of us thought he would play as, but he is perfect for his current role. I thought he would be off due to not fitting in to what LvG wants out of his #10 and never thought he would slot seamlessly wide right.

Which reminds me of Neville's analysis of Rooney's game. Rooney had only 35 touches, lowest in his United career. From the outset he was a mere passenger. But Neville said that that was his best performance under LVG and that the manager would have been very pleased with his performance. Neville said that having played with him for 10 years he knows that Rooney is the sort of player who love's to track and fight for every ball. But there was a noticeable difference in his game now, instead of chasing every ball he was more focused on his positioning and organization both defensively and offensively. Herrera said something along the same lines in his recent interview, that LVG does not want him to go after seeking the ball, instead he has to keep his shape and play in an organized manner.

 

[RDCR07]

I think he is almost the very definition of a luxury player, and disagree with your definition (doesnt show up in big games). A luxury player is one who must be carried somewhat by the team, who is "the icing on the cake". A player who when the team is playing well, will look even better [than the rest of the team], but when the team is playing poorly, will be one of the most invisible.
I said the same about Kagawa.

Regarding defensive frailties - it was his failure to track Silva yesterday that led to City's opening goal on 8 minutes, which could have cued a disastrous result for us.

Really? So it wasnt Valencia's or Carrick's or Herrera's fault for not tracking Silva?

 

[Walrus]

Really? So it wasnt Valencia's or Carrick's or Herrera's fault for not tracking Silva?

Originally I held Valencia to blame, but having watched the replay a few times he isnt at fault - there are two City players out wide near the by line, and Valencia and Smalling are covering those two. Silva was the third man, making a run inside. Mata tracked him back to around the mid point of our half, and then seemed to just stop.

I didnt record the game and cant for the life of me find the highlights to re-watch it to really see in detail, but the above was my take on it from what I have seen.

 

[RDCR07]

Originally I held Valencia to blame, but having watched the replay a few times he isnt at fault - there are two City players out wide near the by line, and Valencia and Smalling are covering those two. Silva was the third man, making a run inside. Mata tracked him back to around the mid point of our half, and then seemed to just stop.

I didnt record the game and cant for the life of me find the highlights to re-watch it to really see in detail, but the above was my take on it from what I have seen.

Valencia was in no mans land behind Smalling. When Milner cut in Smalling had to cover Clichy because he was overlapping, which meant Valencia had to step up and cut off Milner which he didnt. Also Carrick had to have seen Silva's run and he reacted late as well. Carrick was ball watching.

 

[The Law of Denis]

I can easily see Mata being our player of the year next season if he continue playing in this position. It is not far off from his form and consistency at Chelsea

 

[Walrus]

Valencia was in no mans land behind Smalling. When Milner cut in Smalling had to cover Clichy because he was overlapping, which meant Valencia had to step up and cut off Milner which he didnt. Also Carrick had to have seen Silva's run and he reacted late as well. Carrick was ball watching.

I agree Valencia didnt track Milners run, but Silva should have been tracked by Mata I feel - unless told otherwise by LVG.

 

[Carlsen19]

He was never getting close to Silva, Carrick was goal side, in a better position and should have blocked off Silva's run, I've seen the game like 5 times again. Before that too, Valencia and Herrera lost their men.

You need a hobby fella.

 

[prarek]

Just watched the goal again. Very harsh to blame it on Mata. But i noticed something i hadn't earlier. But lets talk about Mata first. Clichy cuts in and takes out Valencia, runs forward and finds Milner. Milner is completely free on the left as Valencia is up in no man's land. Smalling goes to meet Milner while Carrick falls back. At this point Valencia gets back but completely ignores the onrushing Silva as he's still focused on the left. Meanwhile Mata follows Silva, who is already running 3-4 yards ahead of him, into the box. Milner lays it in front of Silva through Valencia and Carrick, Mata wouldn't have reached the ball even if he had the pace of Usain Bolt. Completely unrealistic. BUT Aguero was completely unmarked in the middle. He is between Fellaini, Jones and Blind. No one even bothers to mark him. The tap in was too easy for him.

 

[RDCR07]

I agree Valencia didnt track Milners run, but Silva should have been tracked by Mata I feel - unless told otherwise by LVG.

Mata could have tracked him for only so long. He stopped because Milner was running towards him and there was no one to cover Milner. Carrick should have seen that run from Silva. Mata had Milner covered if he was going to keep cutting further in. Carrick stopped once Milner cutt inside and was caught ball watching.

 

[NL Max]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but doesn't anyone else think van Gaal is doing 'a Herrera' on him? Previously known as 'a Sneijder' for Dutch people.

Before the worldcup, van Gaal said in an interview he was going to CHEER! (he yelled) at the line if Sneijder would capture a ball, and even left him out of the selection a couple of times. At the worldcup Sneijder defended more than ever and ran more kilometers than he's ever done - at age 30! He followed special training in his own time to become stronger, fitter and started to defend much more.

Herrera was also very attack minded and got left out for a while, he's more naturally gifted when it comes to defending but he was in the wrong places. He learned him some defensive ways to play as 8.

In the last matches on the wing (where defending is less important than in midfield) we saw Mata tracking back, making tackles and winning the ball. Van Gaal said he left him out for the balance of the team, this would be the defensive balance. He will never be great at defending, but in our possesion style putting pressure on the opponent is just as important - Mata could easily do this. I think we will see Mata defending more and more as the matches go by.

I have a hunch feeling, that since we're getting a new CM (who will probably be good defensive wise - quote me on this), Mata could even play in midfield next season. He's great on the wing too and van Gaal loves multifunctional players, this way he doesn't need as big of a squad either (which he likes).

 

[jem]

Is he? as nice as he is, he plays for United and that was his decision. Chelsea are our rivals and I'd expect him to act professionally and score against the chavs.

Oh for God's sake...

 

[Shark]

Oh for God's sake...

Sorry. Mata is the nicest guy on the planet, I want to have his babies. I hope he scores a cheeky own goal against us in Saturday to remind the Chelsea fans he's just the kindest little fella.

Hugs.

 

[jem]

Sorry. Mata is the nicest guy on the planet, I want to have his babies. I hope he scores a cheeky own goal against us in Saturday to remind the Chelsea fans he's just the kindest little fella.

Hugs.

So you actually thought he was serious when he suggested that Mata would rather pass than score against Chelsea?

 

[Eric'sCollar]

So you actually thought he was serious when he suggested that Mata would rather pass than score against Chelsea?

 

[Shark]

So you actually thought he was serious when he suggested that Mata would rather pass than score against Chelsea?

I don't know man, I don't even remember making that post before you quoted it.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Mourinho done f*cked up.