In retrospect that is so obvious, if you compare it to Bielsa who watched all Marseille's games in the last two years, and still struggled a little a bit at the start of the season, that's not surprising that Van gaal is still trying to understand his players.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 35
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- 10
- Assists
- 4
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In retrospect that is so obvious, if you compare it to Bielsa who watched all Marseille's games in the last two years, and still struggled a little a bit at the start of the season, that's not surprising that Van gaal is still trying to understand his players.
I've seen Silva bail out Man City of many occassions or do something out of the ordinary, Mata doesn't do that though I understand that it's his style. He's more of a final piece type than a go to type.
Mata bailed us at least twice this season, if I remember well.
To ever get the best out of him, we need to play with wide goalscorers and have a solid middle 2 behind him.
Can't remember that, but it's fine. I know he's your favorite player.
He is not even my favorite player, I'm arguing just for the sake of it. But he bailed us against Palace and Stoke(luckily).
I definitely do. Di Maria will look up instantly from deeper positions and aim to fire direct balls into RVP etc but the only match I can remember this being a success was in the Leicester match and the less said about that the better. We aren't retaining the ball high up the pitch in areas in behind the striker (the are where Mata should thrive) because our players are instructed to recycle the ball thus it is usually shifted back out wide when under pressure. Someone linked a document by LVG based on his 433 set up and how he views his system in another thread recently . An idea of his logic would certainly help the understanding here of how our players are expected to perform.
From watching the last few matches, you'd think that Di Maria can't actually pass the ball at all.
Because Mata is somewhat slow he needs quick players around him and in front of him, and defensive cover behind him. Therefore a 4-2-3-1 could work with the right players. Maybe something like
....Wilson
Janucaj...Mata...DM
...Blind....Herrera
And the front 4 would have to be given freedom. If Rooney is the striker than our attack suffers because Mata and Rooney can not beat a defender on the dribble and that takes away an important dimension from the middle of the attack.
LvG wouldn't do this because his system does not include freedom of movement and he would not sit Rooney. More and more it is obvious to me that if Wilson does not develop, or show serious improvement soon, we will need a new striker with pace. Imagine how much our attack would improve with a Sturridge-like player up front.
....Wilson
Janucaj...Mata...DM
...Blind....Herrera
And the front 4 would have to be given freedom. If Rooney is the striker than our attack suffers because Mata and Rooney can not beat a defender on the dribble and that takes away an important dimension from the middle of the attack.
LvG wouldn't do this because his system does not include freedom of movement and he would not sit Rooney. More and more it is obvious to me that if Wilson does not develop, or show serious improvement soon, we will need a new striker with pace. Imagine how much our attack would improve with a Sturridge-like player up front.
Not true at all. Di Maria played RVP through about twice in his debut at Burnley alone. Since then he's done it more than a few occasions with both RVP and Falcao and the latest being Rooney. He can be inconsistent with his passing but he's found that killer ball quite often this season.
He's definitely the player most willing to take risks and try pulling off THE pass. That's one of the biggest complains I have of Mata even though I'm a big fan of his. Just doesnt back himself enough to find the killer ball which is tragic given his passing ability.
Actually you said 'only looking at assists is not the best way to judge creativity although it does provide a good indication'. It's you who brought up his open play assist stats in the attempt to prove he was uncreative. If you bring up something as evidence to prove a point you can't then dismiss it out of hand when it turns out it undermines your argument. He's not been brilliant for us but he has created chances and assisted goals when he's been played in position, despite the poor state of our team under Moyes and the dire form of our strikers under LvG.
On an unrelated point, I think it's pretty clear why Di Maria is playing risky through balls and Mata has been less ambitious in his passing this season. - LVG's instructions. Putting aside the clear problems with the 3-5-2, Van Gaal isn't particularly comfortable with having a risk-taking player like Di Maria playing in a deeper midfield position, he much prefers to have a solid midfield to control the game and have his risk-taking players further up the pitch. But Di Maria has to play, and unfortunately he's nowhere near as effective up front or in the #10 position.
It probably wouldn't be such a huge issue if we had a quality defence, or if top-4 wasn't such an overwhelming priority but as it is LVG feels that in order to stay solid with Di Maria deeper, the rest of the midfield have to play way more cautiously to balance out his attacking instincts. I think this is a key factor in explaining why we're playing the way we are at the moment, and why Mata hasn't been taking the risks that made him one of the best players n the league at Chelsea. It's probably also why we saw so little of Herrera for so long after the opening games of the season, why he's only gotten games against weaker teams and why he's looked far more disciplined on and off the ball since he's returned to the team.
I always find the whole Mata discussion a bit confusing.
What is it that people actually want/expect of him? At his best, what is Mata, supposed to be bringing to the table game after game?
What is it that people actually want/expect of him? At his best, what is Mata, supposed to be bringing to the table game after game?
What any team would expect from an alleged top class #10?
The ability to control the tempo in the final third, as well as chip in with goals and assists. Impose himself in away games, and not just the home ties we coast in.
Other than the bits in bold the rest just isn't his game though.
Probably why we shouldn't have signed him...
Mata has done the same for United. The one thing Moyes did well was to play him. Mata's average has been higher than any of our attackers this season. He's one of our best players.
Mata is a neat technical players who needs movement around him to play that killer ball we all know he is capable of. That movement in and around the box is one of many things that are lacking in this period of time ( one can argue for seasons). People perhaps expected a more influencial impact, but statistics dont lie. Since his glamorous arrival he scored 11 goals in 35 games which is admirable for a traditional number 10. Indeed, what do people want/expect of him ? We face several issues like movement on and off the ball, build up etc and these are ingredients that cause neat players like Mata to be more inefficiënt. Again, looking at the statistics, his numbers are admirable.
I'd say he scores so many because he isn't a traditional number 10. He's a second striker, more or less. I don't think a couple of pacey wingers or better movement will turn him into a dictator of play.
Yeah, it's looking that way. I just think we'll be sitting here this time next year still wondering what the problem is. He'll always score goals though, so I'm definitely all for keeping him as an impact sub and versatile squad option.
His weaknesses and strengths are such that he's a tricky player to accommodate in the first team every week.
Exactly. And you're exactly right in saying that Mata doesn't do those things I mentoned, which makes me believe he will be sold.
Thats my opinion, we either need to play him off the lone front man, and put 2 wingers either side of him to get the best of him or we sell him, personally believe we should sell him as he lets the game drift past him far too often when the team as a unit aren't producing around him.
He's not one of our best players and he's been decent for United, nothing more. Stats are not everything.
Thats what, 6 games in a row he hasn't started now?
Surely his days are numbered?
Surely his days are numbered?
That's actually crazy when you put it like that. I'm far from his biggest fan but he's far better than RvP and Falcao.
if it's 433 it's disgusting that Falcao was chosen ahead of him
I have said for ages I don't think he's a long term player for us but how Falcao is starting over him is a msytery.
Wouldn't have minded him actually playing up top, as a striker, alongside Rooney today.
Will see a difference when he comes on. Will change the game.
feck, who am I kidding, Fellaini will come on instead and we will see who can kick it the furthest.
feck, who am I kidding, Fellaini will come on instead and we will see who can kick it the furthest.
Don't be silly, we'll also bring Mata on, and totally bypass him by hoofing it.
He has found himself in difficult situation. I actually predicted that he won't be a starter at the end of the season but IMO it's unfair to play Falcao ahead of him today. Maybe van Gaal wants some psychical presence from Rooney in midfield but whichever way you look at it, it's will be difficul for him.
Man Utd 2:0 Sunderland
Will be like the tiny kid at school playing piggy in the middle clutching at thin air as the ball sails over him.
He'd at least score one from those near penalty box free-kicks.
Wouldn't write off his United career just yet, especially considering how capricious LVG has been this season. Herrera went ages without starting too but suddenly seems to be back in favour....
sub him on for Falcao and play Rooney up front. Rooney is really not good in this sytem as 10, that's Mata's perfect position
While i am of the opinion that Mata hasn't done enough to justify a starting place i don't understand how the other attacking players are ahead of him week in week out. They've done no better. He should be getting a look in every now and then.
Bringing on Fellaini instead of Mata. Well at least Herrera is playing. Why not buy Andy Carroll then, eh? He is at least a striker.
Think he would have helped during a game like that as Sunderland pretty much parked themselves on the 18. If it was tighter and Fellaini came on instead of him, I would have been furious.
He should start next match behind Rooney.
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