No great sources yet, but could be something in this. Right-footed CB.
Juan Gimenez
- Thread starter red_de_pologne
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
No great sources yet, but could be something in this. Right-footed CB.
Always the defenders. Nice all the same, but still annoying seeing our rivals get players like Alvarez, Echeverri and Estevão while our pursuits are always centre halves and full-backs (if any).
Never against us signing young talent but is another CB really necessary? I’d much rather see us target for strikers and midfielders.
Lindelof and Evans off in the summer. Martinez is a sick note, Harry could be sold. We’ve possible not many options for 3 starting spots. Yoro, De Ligt and a few converted full backs who are injury prone. I wouldn’t say we have any outstanding central defenders in the youth set up who look anywhere near starting.
Our defence is set to lose Evans and lindelof. Meanwhile Maguire has 1 year left in his contract, shaw is a myth and Martinez is injury prone
We need more players then simply defenders but we need defenders as well
A few years ago this is exactly the type of transfer activity I wanted to see from United, mainly driven by missing out on Caicedo, and watching Brighton over and over unearth these gems. Part of me wants to get excited at the prospect of us going this direction in the transfer market, but I don't believe this is being done for the future of Man Utd. I think INEOS have the same model as Brighton in mind, unearth these gems, developed them for a few years and then sell them for massive profit.
We have seen the intention this January, and even now, with Mainoo and Garnacho made available, in fact a strong push to sell Garnacho, with rumors of both sales still being an option in the summer. Now whatever you may think of these particular players and their performances, you need to take a step back and look at the big picture. Never in the history of this club do we sell young promising academy players before they have fully developed. And there are plenty of people who think those players should be sold, but should anyone really be judging the full potential of Garnacho or Mainoo based on them not performing well or consistently at a club in turmoil, in a team in turmoil? We are judging our most promising prospects in years based on a completely unfunctioning club and that is not right.
I want to see a United where we develop our own players, bring in players like Gimenez, but gradually integrate them into a functioning side and allow these players to become the future of the club. We should all want this, it truly is the ethos of the club. Selling Garnacho or Mainoo, who at times looks like he could be develop into superstars, because they didn't perform for one season when they were still kids is not what this club is about. Buying promising players from South America to turn a profit in a couple years is not what this club is about.
We have seen the intention this January, and even now, with Mainoo and Garnacho made available, in fact a strong push to sell Garnacho, with rumors of both sales still being an option in the summer. Now whatever you may think of these particular players and their performances, you need to take a step back and look at the big picture. Never in the history of this club do we sell young promising academy players before they have fully developed. And there are plenty of people who think those players should be sold, but should anyone really be judging the full potential of Garnacho or Mainoo based on them not performing well or consistently at a club in turmoil, in a team in turmoil? We are judging our most promising prospects in years based on a completely unfunctioning club and that is not right.
I want to see a United where we develop our own players, bring in players like Gimenez, but gradually integrate them into a functioning side and allow these players to become the future of the club. We should all want this, it truly is the ethos of the club. Selling Garnacho or Mainoo, who at times looks like he could be develop into superstars, because they didn't perform for one season when they were still kids is not what this club is about. Buying promising players from South America to turn a profit in a couple years is not what this club is about.
With his birthday coming up in April, would a completed transfer by then put him inside of the homegrown window, still?
Good to see we continue to be proactive with these types of signings and are also starting to target talent from Latin America.
Never heard of him and it's hard to tell much from the video linked, but this is the type of under radar signing we need to be making across the board to rebuild this squad.
It won't be a quick process but it's the only way to do it right.
It won't be a quick process but it's the only way to do it right.
Juan Hag!
We need them all
Moving to 3 at the back means we need more CB options, we are still getting injuries with them and 3 of the older ones are probably gone in the summer - Maguire, Evans and Lindelof. I suspect we'll sign an experienced CB as well as if we make this move happen as we'd have a lot of young inexperienced players to rely on if we dont.
I think it's smart to hedge your bets when it comes to young prospects. The success rate of turning these prospects into regular starters isn't very high even for the clubs that know how to develop players. If we sign Jimenez we have three high level center back prospects, and if just one of them makes it we'll have done brilliantly.
@Fobal , know much about him?
Generally they are a lot more expensive.
Alvarez was supposedly just over €20m
Echeverri was around €20m
Estevao was over €30m
Then look at Vini Jr, Endrick, Rodrygo.
Alvarez obviously turned out to be great business, but the other two haven't kicked a ball in Europe yet.
I too would like us sign players for other positions, but the real top talents are highly sought after, and are probably too big a gamble price was. I think the club would want to try and hit gold with a sub £10m signing or 2
Not much, I've watched him in the late Conmebol SUB20, but I didn't particulary pay attention to him. I was more focus in the mids and forwards that played quite great in this last Tourno.
Pretty sure both Alvarez and Echeverri were both around 12m, although I stand to be corrected.
Indeed, they are mired in expensive, as are the alternatives we buy instead. These are just expensive positions. Buying Hojlund for 70m as a young prospect is an expensive alternative, for example, so attackers just generally cost more - with SA punts always being cheaper. Tbh I’m still pissed about Estevão. His talent was obvious, bigger talent than Endrick for me, but I guess we don’t have 25m to buy a player and park them for later.
Yeah I get that, I'm not saying what we've been doing is right. The club has obviously still pissed away money on young players that may just not be good enough.
I guess Estevao moved before INEOS were fully in? Chelsea seem to have a much better lead in with those SA talents, probably because they knicked Brighton's recruitment team.
We just have to hope that we start making more moves. The Caicedo story still irks me.
I think we are starting to see an evolved transfer strategy with two goals:
1. Players to improve the first team squad
2. Player trading as a standalone source of revenue
Obviously there is overlap there, but someone like Heaven who comes in for a small fee, can play a couple of games and immediately have a value far in excess what we paid and be a source of profit. Basically the Brighton model - but time will tell if we are anywhere near as good as them at identifying the right young players…fella like we have years of catching up to do there.
1. Players to improve the first team squad
2. Player trading as a standalone source of revenue
Obviously there is overlap there, but someone like Heaven who comes in for a small fee, can play a couple of games and immediately have a value far in excess what we paid and be a source of profit. Basically the Brighton model - but time will tell if we are anywhere near as good as them at identifying the right young players…fella like we have years of catching up to do there.
Or academy sets us apart from them. You are right about the identifying players. If we can unite identifying emerging talent with the lads we bring through, we could form a solid youth conveyor of the most talented youngsters.
I always wanted United to go this route after Barca dominated us with La Masia. Unfortunately, our owners saw dollar signs going for ready made shirt sales.
Didn't he play for Atletico in the 2010's? He was quite good
That Gimenez is still at Atleti!
Can’t register him until the window opens though?
Well this is the best model for us. Sign him up and we either profit from FFP or keep him in the squad.
This feels dirty
Yep this certainly seems to be the model we’re going down. Young talents we can churn for profit unless we stumble across an absolute diamond.
You're not wrong but we are so short of quality and quantity in the squad that any young player coming in has a decent shot of getting some game time and eventually becoming a first team player.
We need 6 CBs in the squad given the back 3, and only Maz, De Ligt, Yoro are medium term options. Maguire will leave in the summer after next, Lindelof and Evans in the coming summer and Licha / Shaw are very injury prone. There is space for Heaven and Gimenez if they can show something.
The only downside to signing these young talented guys is that the majority of them aren't ready to be thrown into playing a bunch of games in the prem right away, but we suck so bad that they have to.
Valverde cost Real €5M
Can't be worse than Lindelof. I'd take him as 6th/7th choice CB to develop. A rightfooted player for once.
Your point? I didn't say you couldn't find gems in SA, that's obviously what the club are trying to do.
Besides, Valverde is a great player, but not really a mercurial striker or winger, is he?
I agree with this in part, but I don’t think the intention would to sell them once they have developed. Unlike Brighton, if United have a well developed, quality player, there will be few steps up for them.
You can rightly point out the Garnacho situation, but I feel that’s more about style of play than quality. Mainoo, I’ve seen no evidence that he is being sold apart from a general comment that “everyone is for sale”.
This new model (assuming we are both right in that assumption) comes with less risk that the millions wasted on aging stars and makes far more sense. But the scouting and youth development has to be on point.
It’s worth a try!
I would expect we'd be taking each case in it's own right. We'd expect some players to develop into eventual starters, some to become good squad players for a few years before likely moving on for much higher fee than we bought them for, and some to not quite make the grade but still be able to be sold for a good profit.
Players who look like they'll become starters would be very unlikely to be sold at all. The good squad players will ideally be held for at least 4-5 years in the first team before being sold, but if we got a large bid earlier than that then we might be willing to sell early (which is exactly the category that I see Garnacho fitting in). The important thing is that we don't hold on to the third category of players (and even the squad players to some extent) for too long and watch their value plummet as they get older while not actually contributing enough to the club to warrant that loss of potential revenue.
Now, obviously there's a chance that we make the wrong call and sell a player who then develops fantastically (think Chelsea with Salah and De Bruyne), but we can't just hold on to players for too long in fear of that happening.
Making profit is vital for the future of Manchester United. Getting a first team player, or in the case of people like Alvaro Fernandez, likely profit plus resale clauses that should pay off later is vital to running the club in the long term.
Depends how the club will be doing. If we improve and achieve financial security from the league and Europe then we probably wouldn't sell a player that is an important part of the first team. It won't hurt to have sellable assets in case we need them. I think it's way too early to predict we're buying players just for the sake of selling them later, but even then it's not only small clubs that do that, Chelsea, City also sell a lot of young players.
What a failed system it is that forces clubs to sell their own academy players in order to finance foreign players. Obviously we all love a good flashy Brazilian/Argentinian/etc player, but those should be the gravy on top, not the building blocks of the team.
Err... read your own last paragraph again?
I don't see why I need to, you'll have to be less obtuse
Whilst we've got a lot of centre backs they're mostly suited to playing in a back 4 with full backs outside them. The Ayden Heaven signing looks instructional for what we want for LCB and RCB. They've got to be very good technically and have good pace and acceleration to handle wingers running at them far more than regular centre backs would have to deal with. I reckon Yoro will be the big man in the middle of the 3.
He looks like a ball playing CB in the highlight clips.
Estevao 45m euros +add 16m for globoesporte:
https://ge.globo.com/futebol/times/...ea-e-pode-faturar-mais-de-r-358-milhoes.ghtml