Some people just hate Mourinho so much they will protect the players who have let us down for the past 4 years just to throw more shade at him.
Jose saving his skin - yet again.. (Manager v Players blame game)
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Some people are so smitten by Mourinho that they will not accept any criticism for him nor hold him accountable for the job he's doing.
And in case you haven't checked our players aren't exactly the same over 4 years. We've signed a lot of players and spent a lot of money much of it by Jose himself. You'd think he had Moyes' boys and was a helpless little fellow for having to ensure that.
I've been very vocal with criticisms of Mourinho when the situation called for it but this time I'm on his side. Some of these players are not fit to wear the shirt, and now when the manager calls them out for it people paint them as the victims. The knives are out for Mourino right now, some of it is definitely deserved. But I don't care if he wants to throw some of the frauds we call footballers under the bus for not showing the attitude and commitment to play for Manchester United.
Mourinho isn't perfect. The man himself have admitted that he have shortcomings. That being said, the criticism of our players are true to a certain extent. I can't honestly think anyone here would think players like Shaw and Smalling doesn't deserve criticism.
Europa League and League Cup champions 2017, 2nd in PL so far this season and semi final of the FA Cup. Not exactly doing badly is he. Yes it isn't the best football on display but results are the most important aspect of football, entertainment comes after.
What's Smalling done now? The players aren't perfect but then neither is Mourinho. It's highly debatable how much of our success and failures are down to the players or manager. Besides I'm not a fan in public cricticism anyway. And have always known about José's tendancy to protect his own image. Besides, did he criticise one or two players? Or did he claim Matic was surrounded by a lack of class and personality? That our players didn't want to play and were begging him to take them off. off? That no-one carried out his mighty super awesome (and suddenly attack minded
) instructions?So our footballers arent rubbish then I guess?
I think Jose's done alright. You make those achievements sound great which they aren't. We've won a few small trophies which was nice but not the real goal. 2nd this season is an improvement and for that I'd give him another year. But he's been brought in to win the league or CL. Thats what he needs to go for next season. I'm fine with another year. At the same time I'm not going to pretend he isn't making a fool of himself with his comments on the club and our players. Or that I have serious doubts over his coaching/tactics. As I've said before, signs really good players but not sure his tactics get the best out of them.
Just like I suppose many won't care if the players do the same to him. We have a very good squad which he's spent tons and tons on. As it happens we also have a good manager. We just really need true cohesion to start winning big things. Whether that is achieved with big changes in players or management remains to be seen.
We won. It was however another display of appalling football. No link up, defended poorly and relied on luck, and players just did not put a shift in.
It's quite disturbing the players can't find in the passion or desire at the minute, But we don't set upto suit the players we have.
We have an issue with Sanchez, Pogba, Shaw, and more. What's happened to Martial? None of our players are playing the way they should be and that's down to the manager I'm sorry.
Jose's tactics and management have to be questioned. Apparently Pogba is world class and is the key to our midfield. Yet he looks like he's not arsed and can't pass the ball 10 yards. Martial is a dynamic forward with skill and pace, yet he looks like he has no confidence whatsoever. Even Bailly looked shaky, our best CB.
We'll do well to see the season out and finish 2nd or 3rd. Big summer needed.
It's quite disturbing the players can't find in the passion or desire at the minute, But we don't set upto suit the players we have.
We have an issue with Sanchez, Pogba, Shaw, and more. What's happened to Martial? None of our players are playing the way they should be and that's down to the manager I'm sorry.
Jose's tactics and management have to be questioned. Apparently Pogba is world class and is the key to our midfield. Yet he looks like he's not arsed and can't pass the ball 10 yards. Martial is a dynamic forward with skill and pace, yet he looks like he has no confidence whatsoever. Even Bailly looked shaky, our best CB.
We'll do well to see the season out and finish 2nd or 3rd. Big summer needed.
The worrying thing is we shouldn't be talking about a big summer of "clear out" in the 3rd season. The summer of the 3rd season should be when 1 or 2 holes are plugged or players are signed to keep others motivated. I'm sorry, but it just seems we are throwing money at the problem and hoping it clicks. By now we should have a plan and direction but it looks like a cycle of "hurray we signed X player" then "X player is shit", rinse & repeat.
Christensen and Alexander Arnold have shat themselves in the last few weeks. I haven't seen them under the bus in the media.
They didn't cost 30 million quid and have not been in the 1st team squad for nearly 3 years.
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It'd be interesting to hear what posters thought of Sir Alex's criticism of our players. Were they as vocal then as they are now?
If the criticism against Shaw is his price tag and the fact he broke his leg when he was just hitting his sotton form, then I totally get it.
Sir Alex was an unbelievably good manager and earned the faith and respect of United fans due to his achievements and style of foorball. Jose hah question marks over himself and his role in our disappointments as much as the players do. So naturally there's a divide here. feck knows if it existed wrt to SAF and in relation to which exact comments you're on about.
What's Smalling done now? The players aren't perfect but then neither is Mourinho. It's highly debatable how much of our success and failures are down to the players or manager. Besides I'm not a fan in public cricticism anyway. And have always known about José's tendancy to protect his own image. Besides, did he criticise one or two players? Or did he claim Matic was surrounded by a lack of class and personality? That our players didn't want to play and were begging him to take them off. off? That no-one carried out his mighty super awesome (and suddenly attack minded
That highlighted part is very correct but we argue as if we are absolutely certain it is Jose's fault or absolutely certain it is the fault of the players. The reality is that we don't really know, do we?
I posted numerous examples of SAF publicly criticising the likes of Beckham, Ronaldo, Rooney, Nani, Evans, Smalling etc.
Are you saying that it's ok for a manager to publicly criticise an employee as long as he/she is successful at their current place of employment? Previous success doesn't count?
I didn't care then and I don't now.
Of course. But then what are we certain about? This place is built upon opinion and conjecture after all.
Good for you. You probably wouldn't care no matter what Jose did. Aren't you the poster who reacted critically to Jose's comments from 15 years back and changed your stance now? Apologies if that was another poster.
I don't like public criticism either way. But it's pretty easy to understand the difference.
- There's a difference between saying saying X fecked up on that occasion or Y had a bad game or falling out with an individual vs being critical in general about your players. I don't remember Sir Alex bemoaning his own players to conveniently excuse his own self of accountability, as if he's been dealt a bad hand. Jose said our players lacked personality, would be replaced by many Seville players, had no football eritage, lacked bravery, were a sea of classless footballers etc. Also I love how you mention Rooney there. Sir Alex called him because he wanted out. It's nowhere near the same thing and you've bunched the two together.
- Sir Alex through his sheer genius and achievements at United had earned a certain level of trust with the United fans. When he fell out with someone or criticised a player you knew he was the problem more often than not. Jose has question marks over his approach, his tactics, his handling of big players, his handling of attacking players, so to expect the same reaction (not that the incidents are anything alike but I'm humouring you) is sort of strange.
Except that most of our players haven't been here for the past 4 years and alot of them have been bought by Mourinho. The ones letting us down the most are Pogba and Sanchez (previously Mkhitaryan) and they are all Mourinho signings.
The our players are letting us down and we have too much deadwood in the team excuse just doesn't fly for me anymore after spending so much and brining in so many new players over the past years.
Honestly, who cares about the EL and the league cup. I would toss all United's league cup and EL throphies in an open fire for 1 more PL title.
Not even Arsenal take the EL seriously and they're fecking Arsenal.
Of course there were going to be a few occasions in 27 years of Ferguson criticising players but the overriding rule was we do not wash our dirty linen in public.
The rule under Mourinho appears to be to throw blame around indiscriminately so long as none of it sticks to him. That may not be in the interests of the team, or of the individual player and in my view it is most certainly not in the interests of Manchester United Football Club as it makes us look terrible. But as long as it is in the interests of Jose Mourinho it's fine.
Some of the players are underperforming. Maybe Shaw is a problem and needs selling. These are quite clearly possibilities. But the problem is we've seen people thrown under the bus to satisfy Mourinho's ego so many times in the past that we can't fully trust his judgement.
He's a good manager and tactician and his results clearly merit another season. On the other hand I'm worried that we'll lose a load of talent, the dressing room will implode and we'll be in a worse position. And there's the club being dragged through the mud.
I really don't know.
I don't care about our manager publically criticising his players either. What I do care about is that we have a strong team, players that work together, play good football and ultimatley win things. Mourinho has the right to criticise his players because he is responsible for building the team, that is what SAF used to do if he felt you were endangering the team he would throw you under the buss even if you were the big star but the main thing is it was accepted by SAF because we knew he did it to benefit the team and it worked. With Mourinho I don't know why he does it and if it is to provoke some kind of reaction it doesn't seem to work at all, there doesn't seem to be a strong a team and they surely don't play good football and we don't seem to be in a winning mood either. So ultimatley Mourinho is failling is job and he deserves just as much criticism as he is giving his own players. No one could ever say SAF wasn't doing his job, his team was strong, they played good football, they won things, so yes he can criticise whoever he wants without looking like a hyphocrite, Mourinho isn't in the same position. He seems to be failing just as much as his players so if he just putting all the blame on them than it feels a bit like a case of the pot calling the cattle black.
No, that wasn't me.
This is an assumption made by Redcafe. Let's not act as if it's a fact of any sort.
As for the criticism of Rooney - he spoke about his weight, he spoke about a penalty miss and his performance against Villa in 2013 - so no, not all of these cases indicate that SAF wanted Rooney out.
Following the 1-0 to City, where we had 1 shot on goal (?), SAF went on to criticise Chris Smalling for his defending during the corner from which Kompany scored. No mention about the pathetic performance that, essentially, cost us the league. He was also seen swearing at Jonny Evans when we were knocked out of the CL in 2011/12 and went on to state it was gentle advice (LOL).
My point isn't which manager has the right to publicly criticise a player or the team. And, if it was, SAF definitely had the free pass to do so and I would never bemoan him for it. It's that it happens and, given the nature of a professional footballers career, it's expected and normally justified. And, given our recent shortcomings (i.e. since SAF retired), Jose should have every right to straighten our players. In my opinion, he's moving us in the right direction and thus must take the necessary actions to ensure the player are abiding by his instructions.
I do, however, agree that comments such as the rubbish about Sevilla players are bullshit. No idea why he said that but they're stupid and uncalled for. The rest, I agree with.
No, he's not. For a team that was consistently well below expectations for 3 seasons on the trot, he's done very well to get us back on track.
I have higher expectations for a team that invest this much money in players. If anything I would already be happy with seeing some good football instead of hearing everybody and his dog complain about how broing we are too watch and how negative our football is.
If he was doing a good job he would't be eliminated this easily by Sevilla and the gap between United and City wouldn't be so gigantic. Also most people wouldn't complain on how bad and broing our football if he was doing a good job. He isn't doing a good job, he is doing a better job than Moyes and LVG in terms of results which honestley isn't an achievement at all.
You're misguided. The only expectation he didn't meet is to go beyond Sevilla in the champions league.
We are where we expect to be in the league. Pep inherited a better squad than he did whilst spending EUR 100m more. There would obviously be a gulf between us and City right now.
I blame all this on Woodwards with his underwhelming recruitment of manager. Due to his incompetence to identify the right profile of manager to take us forward and play an acceptable brand of football for both players and supporters alike, we've found ourselves on a situation where we've wasted a lot of time and money while having not build much toward the future.
Managers who build toward the future and have a stable team, have a certain way they like playing, an identity as to say. Instill that, makes things easier for player to get in, know what's going on and adapt. Heck even Van Gaal had that going for him despite it not being suitable anymore in the modern game.
Ed fired one manager whom people were unhappy with mostly due to his brand of football which bore most than went ahead and hire a negative coach to replace him. I mean how would that have worked out anyways?
Unsurprising the new manager has us playing some horrible and nightmare inducing football and when he get called on, he blames every else but himself.
Had our boards which I assume has Ed as the chief decision operative sat down after the Van Gaal debacle, think of what's needed for Man United, identify the right profile aka an attacking manager, we wouldn't be in this situation right now.
Instead they went and got in bed with someone who had just been let go of his previous job due the toxic nature of his behavior, falling out with his own players and stuff around. And all those happened after he'd already fecked up from his earlier job due to the same toxic nature. I mean what do you expect from someone like that? Unsurprisingly we're already seeing those same toxic nature displayed by the man and are reaping what we sew.
Again Ed and the boards have simply failed us when it came to recruiting the guy with the most important job to lead us forward.
Managers who build toward the future and have a stable team, have a certain way they like playing, an identity as to say. Instill that, makes things easier for player to get in, know what's going on and adapt. Heck even Van Gaal had that going for him despite it not being suitable anymore in the modern game.
Ed fired one manager whom people were unhappy with mostly due to his brand of football which bore most than went ahead and hire a negative coach to replace him. I mean how would that have worked out anyways?
Unsurprising the new manager has us playing some horrible and nightmare inducing football and when he get called on, he blames every else but himself.
Had our boards which I assume has Ed as the chief decision operative sat down after the Van Gaal debacle, think of what's needed for Man United, identify the right profile aka an attacking manager, we wouldn't be in this situation right now.
Instead they went and got in bed with someone who had just been let go of his previous job due the toxic nature of his behavior, falling out with his own players and stuff around. And all those happened after he'd already fecked up from his earlier job due to the same toxic nature. I mean what do you expect from someone like that? Unsurprisingly we're already seeing those same toxic nature displayed by the man and are reaping what we sew.
Again Ed and the boards have simply failed us when it came to recruiting the guy with the most important job to lead us forward.
The priority for us after Moyes and LVG was to get a results based manager in. Attacking brand can come later. Bizzare post, especially considering his Chelsea title winning side weren't necessarily boring and nor was his 100pt Real side before that.
This year we were supposed to be challenging for the league, show something in the CL and actually play some decent football. None of those have happened.
People screaming that we're second while in truth we're closer to 5th than to first, playing garbage football and actually have started to be known for such. Then top all that with being dumped out of the CL by Sevilla in embarrassing fashion. And all this is without mentioning the toxic nature of our man in charge who's already gone into several public outbursts throwing his own players under the bus because he doesn't want to take any accountabilities in our recent failures(CL exit).
Meanwhile we're closer to teams who have spent far less than us(Spurs, Liverpool) playing horrible football while those 2 are kicking up gears after gear football wise.
Our spending power has been closer to City than what those 2 are compared to us yet we're on the same boat while they're still showing far better football.
This post would have merely sat on the back burner if we'd have beaten Sevilla...any post whose strength or weakness is determined by the result of one game......is a poor post.
Pep walked into a side with KDB, Silva and Augero..
Jose had Blind at CB, Schneiderlin amongst others in midfield and no established striker up top.
Pep then went on to spend 100m EUR more (excluding Laporte). Tell me why Jose should be closer to Pep at this stage.
Results which we aren't even getting, at least what was initially expected.
For all the praise about quick success Mourinho is supposed to bring he hasn't even come close to bringing home, then what's the point? And please don't bring up the Carabo cup or EL because you know damn well that's not what we're interested in talking about.
2 years in a row we've been out of the title race before Christmas. Got dumped out of the CL in embarrassing fashion by a team we should be flooring. And the manager is already bringing in excuses for next year. I mean I doubt most believe we'll be challenging next year tge way we're playing.
He's sitting ahead of Conte (who spent more than him and won the title last year), Wenger, Poch and Klopp. He's just behind a manager who is deeper in his change than Mourinho is.
Pick any other year in the last 5-7 years and these points would have us in a title race.
Maybe not all of them but for some of them this is true. Don't think we'd be favourites mind, given how we play usually.
You are right. It's the very reason why I think people need to be a bit more humble in making assertions.
That is your opinion, I see lots of obvious flaws in our game and the results show. With money spent we should be doing much much better. In the prem we are on par with Liverpool and you can check both teams net spent, while in Europe we are doing worse than scousers. So, unless your assumptions turn into facts which show the contrary of what I have stated, your post is well below par. Ciao.
Semantics.
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