It's a bit annoying that he needed to fail (relatively) at United for him to realise he was a bit shit. I think that's helped him and now he seems to have his mojo back. But at the end of the day, it's Mourinho and he'll have a meltdown eventually. It's inevitable.
Jose Mourinho | Spurs manager
- Thread starter roonster09
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Kane has been directly involved in something wild like three quarters of all Spurs' goals this season. Nobody in the PL has been involved in a higher %. Right out of the gate, stats like that don't make Spurs look like a team with a lot of parity.
I agree that sometimes people - myself included, despite watching every Spurs match - overlook the rest of the team because of how good Kane and Son are. But it's very easy to do. They're so far ahead of almost everyone else in that squad.
As long as that gap is there, people will focus on the big players. It doesn't matter how good the rest of the team gets if those two players are still better. For ages, Messi played with a team of world class talents at Barca, yet most of the focus remained on him. I don't think there's much anyone can do about that: it's just how our minds are.
Good post.
Well I mean the guy is a winner. He has a winners mentality.
Yes, being at United made him realize he needed to make some changes to continue succeeding.
He made those changes, he grew both as a manager and as a person and now he is back being elite.
Tough luck we had him at his worst, at his downfall but its what it is.
I dont think he will have a meltdown precisely because he wants to win and he knows he has a bad reputation for having meltdowns after a few seasons. He will have learned from it.
Basically yeah we had him at his worst. Sucks.
Obvious jilted lover complex aside, I find it weird how many people are straight just saying "there's no way he wins the league". I mean, there is a huge chance they will win the league this year, even at this stage.
9 games played, stats can't give a signifanct result. More than half their goals come from 2 matches. 10 in the other 7.
3 shots on target against Burnley in a 1-0 win where Burnley got more chances. 1-0 win against West Brom with the goal in the 88th minute. Yes it's bad luck that Lanzini levelled with little to go but you also conceded thrice in the 2nd half which is not bad luck. I don't like playing the "could have had more points" game but if you are you need to be fair and also look at where you were lucky to get any. Think it's a bit different to say that West Ham were lucky to draw as they played well in the 2nd half and scored 3 goals within the alloted game time. Our win against Brighton however was based on a lucky handball at the final whistle in a game where Brighton was clearly the better team. Examples usually aren't as clear cut as that.
The focus on Kane and Son isn't unfair. 15 of the 21 goals from those 2 and 11 of the assists. They've been absolutely crucial to win these games and Kane has comfortably been the best player in the league . Defense has been good and you need them to be good or you're struggling but the difference between wins and draws this season has been those 2. You've needed to be clinical in most games to get the points which is the crux of Mourinho's tactics. Good team no doubt but early days and Spurs has been luckier with pre-season, covid and injuries than some other teams that would usually be at the top which I think is relevant when looking at short and specific timeframe. This season particularly is more about fitness than other seasons so it's in their interest to keep it that way.
Like every manager, Mou currently has a squad at Spurs that allows him to play the way he wants (excluding the need for significant upgrades at the CBs). So its not too surpising that they are playing well.
Also, Spurs biggest problem has always been handling pressure, and I think the empty stadia have been their biggest help for that
Also, Spurs biggest problem has always been handling pressure, and I think the empty stadia have been their biggest help for that
If Spurs (of all teams) go on to win the League (big IF — 75% of the season remaining), with Mourinho (of all managers), who everyone, including me, labelled as an “outdated” grumpy prick, will it be the second biggest Premier League success story after Leicester’s?
No, no its not.
"Jose 2.0" would occur if he had changed his tactical position, but Spurs are playing the same shit he had us playing. It works while you have momentum, but the moment the wheels fall off or one of Kane or Son get injured, he's going to look pretty fecking average again.
The squad at Spurs suits him better than United in terms of technical quality, tactical fit and also personality fit.
Whether the wheels fall off the following season is a different question as he always excels in his second season (even with us) but it is the most ego less squad he’s managed since Porto and absence of fans, less hype around the club means he can actually just focus on the job at hand rather than get side tracked with his media bullshit.
Is this Jose 2.0 tactically? Hard to say but I do think he is giving the midfield side of things a bit more love than I saw at United, the full backs are given more licence to thrill but he does have in Son the perfect counter attacker - although credit to him for realising Kane needs to be used deeper than in previous years.
Want him to prove us all wrong - as he is one the games greatest ever characters and managerial talents but he has timed his resurgence well as it looks like City are falling off the cliff and Liverpool are beset by injuries.
Whether the wheels fall off the following season is a different question as he always excels in his second season (even with us) but it is the most ego less squad he’s managed since Porto and absence of fans, less hype around the club means he can actually just focus on the job at hand rather than get side tracked with his media bullshit.
Is this Jose 2.0 tactically? Hard to say but I do think he is giving the midfield side of things a bit more love than I saw at United, the full backs are given more licence to thrill but he does have in Son the perfect counter attacker - although credit to him for realising Kane needs to be used deeper than in previous years.
Want him to prove us all wrong - as he is one the games greatest ever characters and managerial talents but he has timed his resurgence well as it looks like City are falling off the cliff and Liverpool are beset by injuries.
I think the only difference is the board between Spurs and Man Utd. He still pick out players he doesn't think give 100% like Dele Alli in spurs, he still setup the team defensively strong and hit strong teams on counter.
Why did Mourinho leave United in an absolute state?
Those sort of comparisons are stupid and useful only for point scoring online.
The true answers are far more nuanced, including new manager bounce, a manager finding a perfect team for his philosophy, a pandemic creating uncertainty and opportunity, plus the previous guy going stale after doing a very good job.
I am interested to know what you mean in relation to the difference between the two boards. I suspect you are talking about backing the manager. Mourinho was backed heavily at United and made poor selections.
Our board clearly has deficiencies but I also think Mourinho was a misery who for some strange reason never really enjoyed himself or wanted to be here.
I think he likes London and likes being at a club that is set up to be subservient to his every whim. Good luck to him and Spurs, they are clearly an excellent fit.
That's a good point actually. United, Real and us (second time round) were too big for the us vs the world mindset whereas us (first time round) Spurs, Porto and modern day Inter were the right type of size to accept success regardless of what way it came.
If you look at their last 4 league results before todau, its exactly the type of performances he was getting shit for at Utd but is getting praised to high heaven for at Spurs. Struggling to break sides down, going long periods without controlling the game and relying on last winners to get over the line.
Hell he was getting abuse for the way he played v City in our big games as well.
Yeah, I would agree with that. First time round at Chelsea, you were reaching for the top table, but second time round you were already sat at it.
He’s clearly an outstanding manager when it’s all said and done but at this stage of his career, Spurs suits him.
For his sake, I hope he wins it this season, because he won’t get a better chance.
There’s a chasm in expectations. United fans largely are not happy with the Albion game yesterday. The aim should be to win, dominate and entertain. When your club is starved of success, you accept winning at any cost.
It's year one of Jose's 3 year cycle, he comes in is charismatic, makes a few good signings, creates a good team spirit and improved performances on the pitch reflect that. Then over the next 6 to 12 months he'll start to systematically tear that all down by criticizing the players in public and going after the chairman/board in the press for not backing him in the transfer market. Everyone will get sick of him and performances go down the shitter and the stage is set for his eventual departure sometime in year 3.
I’ve always thought this about Jose, he’s perfect for a ‘smaller club’ that craves success and will follow him to battle without any questions. Porto, Inter, Chelsea we’re all ideal for him.
I think it's very easy to say " He is going to meltdown anyway in his 3rd season or so" without thinking what makes it happen in first place. I have been thinking about it and I think all the factor that occurs in other club that made him melt doesn't exist at Spurs. At Spurs , he is their biggest person in dressing room, he has set of mature and professional player who are thirsty for trophy which is why they will always listen to whatever he is saying. It's either they go along with him or get lost like what he did to Danny Rose and Dele Alli. He has been backed by Levy but he hasn't actually spend lot of money , they got 7 new players in the last window for the cost less than 1 Harry Maguire so as long as he didn't target an expensive player , levy will always going to back him. He didn't get sacked at Porto and Inter so there weren't any meltdown there, while Chelsea and Madrid are sacking club anyway , United are on downfall which makes no sense for him to stay there for long. Beside he and his family loves London so that's a strong reason to not rocking the boat. I can see him staying at Spurs for longer and winning trophies for us here and there.
Didn’t mean to be snarky, really. There is a difference between thinking and hoping though, not that it’s easy to separate the two. You’ll find many United supperters here that think you are likely right about the sack-routine, yet hope that this is the one. I clearly remember thinking it was likely Mourinho would chop our youth tradition and instil cautious football, but I was sceptical about the 3rd season syndrome. It just sounded too much like a myth. I hoped Mou would still try to change his approach to football because he wanted to be revered on the level of Ferguson, and he did open up the play for a while at the beginning. He hates losing even more than he enjoys admiration though, so ge backtracked on that. 3rd season syndrom turned out to be not a myth.
Still, there is aleays the chance that he’ll have seen a therapist this time around to avoid the paranoia that usually starts to come creeping up on him in adversity. He is still very good at what he does, when he is on his game.
Itll bite them in the ass soon enough. Look at the difference in reporting of Kane and Bruno this morning. Kane is an all round beast who is the best attacker in world football at the moment because everything goes through him while Ole is shit because they rely so much on Bruno. Oh where would we be without Bruno, saving Oles job etc
That’s a really fantastic parallel.
Say what you want about Mou. He came back to Old Trafford and trashed the place 1-6 with his new club.
Meanwhile virus is more concerned about his image than performing on the field and listening to the coach.
Mou has got his problems, but no matter where he has been he has been relatively successful (even at United with the EL win).
I think what United needs is a competent board and DoF. And a better coach than Ole. Basically a proper overhaul.
And sell Pogba. I am still waiting for him to become world class...
Meanwhile virus is more concerned about his image than performing on the field and listening to the coach.
Mou has got his problems, but no matter where he has been he has been relatively successful (even at United with the EL win).
I think what United needs is a competent board and DoF. And a better coach than Ole. Basically a proper overhaul.
And sell Pogba. I am still waiting for him to become world class...
Probably been mentioned, but i dont think Mourinho "re-invented" himself at Spurs, its just a squad better suited to him.
He can set the team up tactically, but lets be honest, coaching attacking plays was never really his strength, so he needs world class talent in attack to make the difference.
So, having Kane and Son, makes his jobs easier, they will make something happen even on days where they dont create much overall.
He can set the team up tactically, but lets be honest, coaching attacking plays was never really his strength, so he needs world class talent in attack to make the difference.
So, having Kane and Son, makes his jobs easier, they will make something happen even on days where they dont create much overall.
Totally agree, the Spurs squad is from Mourinho heaven. An experienced team, who've never won anything and have a chip on their shoulder. Top quality attacking players who can leave alone with and coachable defenders.
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At United , he had the board , players , pundits and fanbase who thought they know better about football than him. He asked for CB in his 3rd season because he got only 2 fit CBs and 3 sicknotes , have a virus as player that undermine his authority. Have a pundit who continue to criticize him no matter what , and finally the fanbase who decide to back all those against him. Let's be honest ,you would have turned toxic at that circumstances as well except you already satisfied with only challenging for top 4 every season.
In his favour now:
- having two of the best forwards in the league in their prime in Kane and Son (goals on tap)
- a club with almost no expectation of a title push given their performances over the last 30 odd years (almost an underdog mentality).
- players all willing to get on board the mourinho train, not trying to derail it because of their own egos or beliefs.
- a league which is much more open to strange results and not going to be dominated by one or two teams getting nearly 100 points each.
- living and working in London.
- lessons learnt after a horrible experience at Man Utd in how not to manage certain types of players/people.
That makes this Mourinho and Spurs team a dangerous animal this season.
- having two of the best forwards in the league in their prime in Kane and Son (goals on tap)
- a club with almost no expectation of a title push given their performances over the last 30 odd years (almost an underdog mentality).
- players all willing to get on board the mourinho train, not trying to derail it because of their own egos or beliefs.
- a league which is much more open to strange results and not going to be dominated by one or two teams getting nearly 100 points each.
- living and working in London.
- lessons learnt after a horrible experience at Man Utd in how not to manage certain types of players/people.
That makes this Mourinho and Spurs team a dangerous animal this season.
He's still an insufferable prick, glad he's gone.
Anyone on here saying Mou is now an attacking coach and has been reborn simply needs to watch a lot more football games. His setup now is almost identical to when he was here, difference is he has two world class attackers in Kane and Son.
Mou's setup is the same - deep back four with full backs who get pushed on versus weaker teams. Hojberg/Sissoko are Jose's dream, two physical and aggressive CMs who invariably force play wide and make it hard to play through the middle - this is particularly important given the CB pairing is pretty average in my eyes. Ndombele kind of sits infront as a 10 and presses/carries the ball or plays the long direct ball through. Then a front three where Son, in particular, will make that same run over and over between the opposition FB/CB. It is basic but effective, so far.
With Liverpool's injuries and City starting poorly he's in with a shot, personally I think they'll start picking up too many draws along the way given their style but you never know.
Mou's setup is the same - deep back four with full backs who get pushed on versus weaker teams. Hojberg/Sissoko are Jose's dream, two physical and aggressive CMs who invariably force play wide and make it hard to play through the middle - this is particularly important given the CB pairing is pretty average in my eyes. Ndombele kind of sits infront as a 10 and presses/carries the ball or plays the long direct ball through. Then a front three where Son, in particular, will make that same run over and over between the opposition FB/CB. It is basic but effective, so far.
With Liverpool's injuries and City starting poorly he's in with a shot, personally I think they'll start picking up too many draws along the way given their style but you never know.
We would have kept him if he was as high as 10th, the club commited to giving Jose a chance to build a legacy he would have had to have overseen an unprecedented all time collapse for his job to have been in danger, and he did!
For all this talk of us sacking all these managers (whom all with the debatable exception of Ancelotti were 100% correct) there's not actually that many better equipped set ups than Chelsea if you're striving to create something as a manager, you get given a healthy transfer kitty and have access to one of the best academies in the world. Jose had he played his cards right could still be with us enjoying Salah and De Bruyne at the peak of their powers with Pulisic and Havertz ready made successors alongside the likes of James, Mount, CHO coming up through the academy ready to shape his next great squad. He could have had it all back with us but he just couldn't see past getting that title (in 2015) and getting it immediately no matter what the trade off was.
Jose is who he is and won't change, if there's a chance of winning the title this season he will push through to win it at ANY cost, I promise you.
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Not so sure I agree with the idea of his United stint having been an anomaly or him having finally learnt his lessons now.
He had a meltdown and started pulling the roof in at both Madrid and Chelsea (second stint) in his third season. His behaviour at United wasn’t anything new.
In terms of him having learnt lessons, I don’t think the guy ever learns tbh. He is single minded and egotistical (two things which help brought him success in the past)
It wasn’t that long ago he was exhibiting early warning signs of turning on the players at Spurs. When things are going well he’ll shut up but as soon as things aren’t going smoothly he’ll be back to his old tricks and eventually push his players to breaking point.
A well reasoned assessment, which I fully agree with.
He has nothing to lose.
I don't think he had reinvented himself, we all know if he wins it will be heralded as a masterclass and if he loses, he will hit out at his team. He's good at creating a siege mentality.
I still think he'll get the chop at some stage and Spurs fans will lament the team's performance. Difference is this season they are good enough to finish top four, if they are going to win the league they'll have to bin the Europa.
Say what you want, Jose is doing fine. However we are not. Even LVG said United are more of a commercial club and he didnt even have to deal with the headache of the Pogba era. He had it easy compared to Jose.
Yet somehow we just dismiss those highly accomplished managers. Well clearly some things they say might be true.
Its hard to accept but its not them, its us.
Jose is doing fine. Better question is how do we make ourselves a good fit for a top manager?
We alienated the last two.
There is a problem at our club, it starts at the top and I get the feeling that most top mangagers that know their worth might have a problem at United.
Ole is just happy to be there, he knows he isnt really a calibre we need, he is happy to go along and be a puppet.
We are the ones that are toxic, we have a toxic culture. If Levy and Mourinho can work together and thats such a toxic mix on paper, what does it tell you about us?
Again, its the stupid americanization of our club thats our biggest problem.
Yet somehow we just dismiss those highly accomplished managers. Well clearly some things they say might be true.
Its hard to accept but its not them, its us.
Jose is doing fine. Better question is how do we make ourselves a good fit for a top manager?
We alienated the last two.
There is a problem at our club, it starts at the top and I get the feeling that most top mangagers that know their worth might have a problem at United.
Ole is just happy to be there, he knows he isnt really a calibre we need, he is happy to go along and be a puppet.
We are the ones that are toxic, we have a toxic culture. If Levy and Mourinho can work together and thats such a toxic mix on paper, what does it tell you about us?
Again, its the stupid americanization of our club thats our biggest problem.
I agree with this. It's not that Jose changed but he just has players that better fits him. This has been the case with Jose over and over again. If the club buys into his ways, even if his signings can seem 'outdated', you will get the better version of him. Compared to disagreeing with him and having to deal with the passive aggressive Jose which eventually leads to meltdown Jose. At that point he will want nothing but to proof that had things gone as he planned he could have been more successful, even if it means belittling everybody around him and proofing it with failure with his 'not my team'. He only shows loyalty to those loyal to him.
What do you mean he has nothing to lose?
His legacy is literally on the line. People wrote him off as a has been. You think that sits well with him?
There is a specter haunting Europe. It is Jose Mourinho winning league titles with 5 different clubs. Drink with us, Jose! Drink with us! For thy name be cnut.
The difference is because we were playing Man. City and you were playing West. Brom, yet even so it took a pen retake to get you through.
i do agree on the decreased expectation point compared to other clubs, but I think the whole point of Levy sacking Poch for Jose was one final push with this team to win something now. If he leaves with a 2nd place finish a League Cup and a Uefa Cup he's a legend there. With Kane they should be aiming for the title though.