Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[Igor Drefljak]

Mourinho just isn't a motivator, it's as simple as that.

We have bought record fee signings, big named players and have seen nothing from them.
Klopp on the other hand has for the most part, has bought the tier or two below and look at how he's got them playing.

We stuttered our way to a EL win under Mourinho
Liverpool smashed their way to a CL final

 

[Kapardin]

Less comfortable than you make it out to be. The point difference was my much. And by that same argument, City finished VERY comfortably above ya too. It’s very clear that our deficiencies in playstyle prevented us from closing that gap.

We were comfortably ahead of Spurs for sure, which is a bare minimum really considering the size of our club and Spurs'. Liverpool on the other hand were giving it a real go after a slow start, once VvD had been signed, but tapered off due to thin squad and CL commitments.

All for Jose to prove next season. He wants to sell Martial, fine, but better prove his worth as a manager now that he has had his way.

 

[FootyGirl88]

He can't go soon enough, I just don't think he's the guy for the job. His negatives far outweigh his positives. One thing I don't understand is why the rebuild of the squad taken so long? Do you really need 5 Windows to realise Blind and Darmian aren't gonna cut it? Jose has been too slow on this.

 

[crossy1686]

Mourinho just isn't a motivator, it's as simple as that.

We have bought record fee signings, big named players and have seen nothing from them.
Klopp on the other hand has for the most part, has bought the tier or two below and look at how he's got them playing.

We stuttered our way to a EL win under Mourinho
Liverpool smashed their way to a CL final

Why are you judging Mourinho on what Liverpool did?

Funny that this thread got a bump since Martial said he wants to leave...

 

[Igor Drefljak]

Why are you judging Mourinho on what Liverpool did?

Funny that this thread got a bump since Martial said he wants to leave...

I've been consistent throughout. It got bumped so I posted.
Why am I comparing him to Liverpool? Because right now they are a direct rival. Liverpool are much closer to us than we are City if you go of league points.

They've made two very good signings already which should replace Henderson and Milner. Their transfer business has been much better than ours when you consider cost / effectiveness on the pitch.

The frustrating thing is, I don't think we are as far away to City as the points suggest. We've got:
Pogba: Been in the world team of the year and was a record signing
Lukaku: Premier League consistent scorer, even at smaller teams
Sanchez: Been one of the best players in the league since joining
Martial: Golden boy winner
Rashford: 2 x Golden boy runner up

The problem is, Mourinho concentrates on defence so much we have no clue when going forward. He cares more about not conceding than he does scoring.
People question the ability of Valencia, Lindelof, Jones, Smalling, Darmian, Blind, Rojo, Young and Shaw. That is our entire backline apart from Bailly, who people are having doubts about these days.

So people question our entire backline, yet we had the second best defence in the league last season...But that was down to how we set up.
Our best players, just like Liverpool are our attacking players. One uses them, one doesn't

 

[crossy1686]

I've been consistent throughout. It got bumped so I posted.
Why am I comparing him to Liverpool? Because right now they are a direct rival. Liverpool are much closer to us than we are City if you go of league points.

They've made two very good signings already which should replace Henderson and Milner. Their transfer business has been much better than ours when you consider cost / effectiveness on the pitch.

The frustrating thing is, I don't think we are as far away to City as the points suggest. We've got:
Pogba: Been in the world team of the year and was a record signing
Lukaku: Premier League consistent scorer, even at smaller teams
Sanchez: Been one of the best players in the league since joining
Martial: Golden boy winner
Rashford: 2 x Golden boy runner up

The problem is, Mourinho concentrates on defence so much we have no clue when going forward. He cares more about not conceding than he does scoring.
People question the ability of Valencia, Lindelof, Jones, Smalling, Darmian, Blind, Rojo, Young and Shaw. That is our entire backline apart from Bailly, who people are having doubts about these days.

So people question our entire backline, yet we had the second best defence in the league last season...But that was down to how we set up.
Our best players, just like Liverpool are our attacking players. One uses them, one doesn't

If we're talking Liverpool, which we shouldn't be because we should be judging Jose on the job he's done at United and how the team have progressed year on year, then we should also factor in that they had an easy run to the CL final and the moment the came up against an organised unit, they were beaten by the team with the better defence who were clinical.

You can tell the quality of a team based on goal difference. If you're winning games 4-3, it might be great but you're going to be on the wrong side of the score line at many points during the season.

We haven't finished our transfer business yet so to judge anyone on that before the end of the window doesn't make any sense. We could theoretically sign Bale and Greizmann before August and then you wouldn't be saying the same.

We are a good unit that doesn't concede many goals, our main issue has been we're not clinical enough. We've seen our attacking players squander chances and at our level or the level we want to be competing at, that isn't good enough. You can say it's down to coaching if you like but if a player isn't going to finish a chance 1-1 in the box, isn't it better to sign someone who will who he can learn from? Or do we continue on in the same fashion and hope he improves?

With the understanding a manager is only ever 5 games away from losing his job, I know what I would do.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

If we're talking Liverpool, which we shouldn't be because we should be judging Jose on the job he's done at United and how the team have progressed year on year, then we should also factor in that they had an easy run to the CL final and the moment the came up against an organised unit, they were beaten by the team with the better defence who were clinical.

You can tell the quality of a team based on goal difference. If you're winning games 4-3, it might be great but you're going to be on the wrong side of the score line at many points during the season.

Porto > Man City > Roma > Real:
I wouldn't call that an easy route to the CL final....
Porto they beat 5-0, City they beat 5-1, Roma they beat 7-6

We beat:
St Etienne 4-0. Rostov 2-1, Anderlecht 3-2, Celta 2-1, Ajax 2-0

I know who impressed me more

And if we are basing the quality of a team off of goal difference, then Liverpool beat us on that front.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That's not entirely true. Mata and Sanchez definitely saw their form dip before Mourinho got paws on them (although he did sign Sanchez after lull/wane). However Martial was brilliant (for a 20 year old) for us before he came under Jose's leadership, and Pogba was outstanding (in general) for Juventus before he came under Mourinho's leadership.

If I'm not mistaken even Rashford was better prior to Mourinho despite playing more under him.

Martial was awful for Mourinho from his very first game, which seems to have been down to off-field drama because he improved massively the following season (under the same manager)

Pogba bad a woeful tournament for France before he kicked a ball under Mourinho.

Rashford’s a much better, more rounded player now than he was under Van Gaal but is, of course, still basically a kid. So can be expected to be inconsistent.

And I’m saying all of this as someone who can’t wait to see the back of Mourinho.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Martial was awful for Mourinho from his very first game, which seems to have been down to off-field drama because he improved massively the following season (under the same manager)

Pogba bad a woeful tournament for France before he kicked a ball under Mourinho.

Rashford’s a much better, more rounded player now than he was under Van Gaal but is, of course, still basically a kid. So can be expected to be inconsistent.

And I’m saying all of this as someone who can’t wait to see the back of Mourinho.

So just curious, because I'm in the same camp, who would you rather? In some way I can see the positives of stability if we stick with Jose but he's just not going to win anything here with his reactive tactics. I know it's regarded as heresy around here but I really wanted and still wish we could have had Klopp.

 

[SirAF]

Martial was awful for Mourinho from his very first game, which seems to have been down to off-field drama because he improved massively the following season (under the same manager)

Pogba bad a woeful tournament for France before he kicked a ball under Mourinho.

Rashford’s a much better, more rounded player now than he was under Van Gaal but is, of course, still basically a kid. So can be expected to be inconsistent.

And I’m saying all of this as someone who can’t wait to see the back of Mourinho.

Wait, what? You have swapped sides?

 

[Jonno]

Less comfortable than you make it out to be. The point difference was my much. And by that same argument, City finished VERY comfortably above us too. It’s very clear that our deficiencies in playstyle prevented us from closing that gap.

You say it was less comfortable than I made it out, but not only were we ahead by considerable points but we literally beat everybody around us in the top 7 in the final couple of months. Everyone. City, Liverpool, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal and Burnley a little while earlier. How weren't we comfortably the 2nd best team in the league?

Our deficiencies in play-style did not prevent us from closing the gap! Come off it, Liverpool's playing style prevented them from finishing 2nd more like, as they only play 1 way. We play 2 or 3 ways and we know how to win. Despite obvious flaws in our squad, Jose managed to drag us up to undisputed 2nd, which, when you appreciate that the only team to finish above us was record breaking, record spending, record everything City, who got over 100 points, I think we did OK.

Did you think Mourinho should have got 100 points out of this squad? 110? Come on, get real and appreciate where we are in our re-build. 4 years behind City in terms of investing in the squad. Horrendous signings previous to Mourinho have cost us dearly and Mourinho has steered us in the right direction.

 

[steffyr2]

So why bother then if you use them spending more as excuse?

and the post from 10 minutes earlier --

Yeah, there are no more excuses this year. If he fails to deliver the PL or CL then he should go.

You two should get together and come up with a consensus.

 

[Jonno]

Ed Woodward started speaking to both Van Gaal and Mourinho while their predecessors when in the job. Make no mistake about it . Woodward isn't afraid to get rid of underperforming managers. And Jose will be a goner if results are poor. I doubt he has freedom to clear the entire squad either. Woodward has mentioned a few years ago that our Summers of complete overhauls where over. It's easier to get rid of one manager than an entire squad .

I have no doubt that the players may not have made it easy for him at Real and Chelsea but Mourinho wasn't exactly blameless either.

He chose to get involved with public spats with most of his players. At Real, that was never going to endear him to anyone. And it wasn't just the players either. He had problems with Valdano too when he arrived . He used to create a sense of us vs them mentality with most of his team's before this job. But at Madrid something changed with him and it became a case of us vs us.

If he falls out with most of our squad too and results tank. He will be gone. The fact that he doesn't have a long term contract makes that easy for the club to get rid . Sadly he doesn't seem to have moved on from his tendencies to engage in public spats with players .

Good points.

However I do believe he has the green light to clear out the squad, he will have signed well over 10 first teamers this summer, and probably will get 3-4 next summer, he's buying whoever he likes with no compromise. He's never been happier with this free reign.

And rightly so, this squad has needed a complete overhaul going back to when we had Schneiderlain and Rooney in our central midfield.

And of course if results plummet he will be sacked, same for any manager, right? I don't believe that will happen, he made us pretty solid last season and we have 2 more months of transfers to potentially come in and improve us.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

You say it was less comfortable than I made it out, but not only were we ahead by considerable points but we literally beat everybody around us in the top 7 in the final couple of months. Everyone. City, Liverpool, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal and Burnley a little while earlier. How weren't we comfortably the 2nd best team in the league?

Our deficiencies in play-style did not prevent us from closing the gap! Come off it, Liverpool's playing style prevented them from finishing 2nd more like, as they only play 1 way. We play 2 or 3 ways and we know how to win. Despite obvious flaws in our squad, Jose managed to drag us up to undisputed 2nd, which, when you appreciate that the only team to finish above us was record breaking, record spending, record everything City, who got over 100 points, I think we did OK.

Did you think Mourinho should have got 100 points out of this squad? 110? Come on, get real and appreciate where we are in our re-build. 4 years behind City in terms of investing in the squad. Horrendous signings previous to Mourinho have cost us dearly and Mourinho has steered us in the right direction.

That's arguable - it could be argued that with their squad Klopp has punched above his weight - especially when considering their average bench, average midfield, average goal keeper, and an average defence that has gotten marginally better again due to his use of some younger players & tactics. His game style has helped them more than cost them through the season.

Anyway - whilst it has not happened yet - I hope that Jose is trying to find a way of making this team play a game of its own rather than a game that is revolved around the oppositions tactics. United in my eye should not be thinking about another team's game unless it is a game where we are significantly up against it or an under dog. That's more of an approach suited for a club like Chelsea or Inter Milan who have lived under clubs shadows. That would be nice to see for one season, or a half at least.

 

[Jonno]

Liverpool was Salah away to maybe get their hands on CL.

So Liverpool had a divine right to win the CL with Salah? Bullsh!t, they lost quite comfortably because they have a sh!te goalkeeper and a dodgy defence, Salah or no Salah. Salah couldn't get past Ashley Young a couple of months ago when we comfortably beat them and secured 2nd place.

And did you watch our biggest game last season against a deprived Chelsea? Just mindlessly foreplay around the middle of the pitch, but no penetration in the final third.

We comfortably beat them at Old Trafford, we were poor at Stamford Bridge, we were unlucky at Wembley. We also finished considerably higher than them in the league. My point still stands, our style isn't great, but we beat teams and finish above them. Only record breaking 100 points+ City finished above us. I'm not saying I like being 2nd but I see logic to why in our own situation, our own path we are doing much better with Mourinho in charge, than before Mourinho took over.

And if we go with his transfer policy preference, United would be full of 29-35 y/o high-wages players, with no thinking about the future. All his younger players purchase, have failed to live up to their potential.

lol.... really, he only signs 29-35 year olds?

Lindelof
Bailly
Dalat
Fred
Lukaku
Pogba

Most of his signings range between 19 and 25. Strange that you think we'd be "full of 29-35 year olds".

How have ALL of his younger signings failed to live up to their potential? That's an incredibly harsh statement to make, but I guess you must have an agenda against him. How can you say that when most have been here less than a year? Bailly has looked like our best CB when he does play, if he gets a good run in the first team he could become our number one CB next season.

Lindelof has been dissapointing, but that's like what 1 out of 9? That will happen at every club in the world when making multiple signings.

Lukaku has been a revelation. We have a world class striker on our hands for years to come, he may hit 40 goals for club and country this season, who knows next season? Pogba has had his problems both for club and country, but is still young and still offers a lot for the team.

Fred and Dalot both look like excellent signings. How can you just sit there and say "all of Mourinho's younger signings have failed to live up to their potential"?

And then how can you sit there and dismiss 29 year olds or older as being irrelevant signings? Very strange arguments. Matic has been a solid addition for us, Zlatan was incredibly important in raising our standards from Rooney.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

That's arguable - it could be argued that with their squad Klopp has punched above his weight - especially when considering their average bench, average midfield, average goal keeper, and an average defence that has gotten marginally better again due to his use of some younger players & tactics. His game style has helped them more than cost them through the season.

Anyway - whilst it has not happened yet - I hope that Jose is trying to find a way of making this team play a game of its own rather than a game that is revolved around the oppositions tactics. United in my eye should not be thinking about another team's game unless it is a game where we are significantly up against it or an under dog. That's more of an approach suited for a club like Chelsea or Inter Milan who have lived under clubs shadows. That would be nice to see for one season, or a half at least.

What if Klopp hadn’t got lucky with the Salah signing?

 

[Jonno]

Yeah, Liverpool the feeder club who sell their best players every couple of seasons and Tottenham with Levy and the new stadium. We really showed those 2 teams how it's done.

Liverpool, 3rd in the league and a Champions League final, not bad for a "feeder club", right?

Tottenham, probably the 2nd best squad in the Premier League, yet we comfortably finished well above them.

So yeah, we did show them, what's your point?

 

[Don Alfredo]

I am observing if there was some shifting of votes after the Martial news by Bouhafsi. Interestingly enough, there was no big shift at all and I remember the share for sacking being 33% some time ago.

All in all, if a manager has 1/3 of his club‘s fanbase calling for his head, that is a sign that things are going south rather quickly. If that number rises to 50% or thereabouts, you would think it would be unavoidable to sack him. Or else you risk a Wenger situation, with a manager who dominates everything on the inside and has no confidence from the outside, leading to a toxic environment and trust issues on all sides.

Holding onto a manager without the trust from the outside (fans, players, agents, sponsors etc) makes no sense and the most successfull clubs are those who act quickly nowadays.

Look at Real Madrid in 2015, they lost ground in La Liga with Benitez, changed him for Zidane and won the CL at the end of the season.

Likewise Bayern, got rid of Ancelotti sitting in 3rd place a few weeks into the season, lured back Heynckes and won the title in convincing fashion.

Barca does the same if a manager doesn‘t deliver (anymore). Luis Enrique was treble winner in 2015, domestic double winner in 2016 and domestic cup winner in 2017. His performance in La Liga and CL was not good enough in 2017, they changed him for Valverde and won the league at a canter in 2018.

Keep in mind the player material in every one of those situations was of course very good, but also they performed badly under the old coach and the squads were not transformed in huge scale. Some guys like Heynckes or Zidane couldn‘t make big signings and Valverde even lost his second best player.

The managers were the only decisive changing variable in those cases and they affected the performances and results quickly and with much success.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

You say it was less comfortable than I made it out, but not only were we ahead by considerable points but we literally beat everybody around us in the top 7 in the final couple of months. Everyone. City, Liverpool, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal and Burnley a little while earlier. How weren't we comfortably the 2nd best team in the league?

Our deficiencies in play-style did not prevent us from closing the gap! Come off it, Liverpool's playing style prevented them from finishing 2nd more like, as they only play 1 way. We play 2 or 3 ways and we know how to win. Despite obvious flaws in our squad, Jose managed to drag us up to undisputed 2nd, which, when you appreciate that the only team to finish above us was record breaking, record spending, record everything City, who got over 100 points, I think we did OK.

Did you think Mourinho should have got 100 points out of this squad? 110? Come on, get real and appreciate where we are in our re-build. 4 years behind City in terms of investing in the squad. Horrendous signings previous to Mourinho have cost us dearly and Mourinho has steered us in the right direction.

Not disputing that we have been steered in the right direction, but I fear that's all Jose is capable of doing. We have a better squad than Liverpool to boot. But Klopp had his performing above expectations in a system that maximised their strengths. Yes we play 2-3 different ways but it is that lack of a settled system that gets the best out of our players that is the cause for our inconsistency. Beat top teams 1 day and draw/lose to mid-table or bottom team the next. United is not an underdog team. Reactionary tactics do not suit us and certainly do not suit the group of players we have. We were 4 and 6 points off Spurs and Liverpool respectively. That's not a huge gap.

 

[endless_wheelies]

I am observing if there was some shifting of votes after the Martial news by Bouhafsi. Interestingly enough, there was no big shift at all and I remember the share for sacking being 33% some time ago.

All in all, if a manager has 1/3 of his club‘s fanbase calling for his head, that is a sign that things are going south rather quickly. If that number rises to 50% or thereabouts, you would think it would be unavoidable to sack him. Or else you risk a Wenger situation, with a manager who dominates everything on the inside and has no confidence from the outside, leading to a toxic environment and trust issues on all sides.

Holding onto a manager without the trust from the outside (fans, players, agents, sponsors etc) makes no sense and the most successfull clubs are those who act quickly nowadays.

Look at Real Madrid in 2015, they lost ground in La Liga with Benitez, changed him for Zidane and won the CL at the end of the season.

Likewise Bayern, got rid of Ancelotti sitting in 3rd place a few weeks into the season, lured back Heynckes and won the title in convincing fashion.

Barca does the same if a manager doesn‘t deliver (anymore). Luis Enrique was treble winner in 2015, domestic double winner in 2016 and domestic cup winner in 2017. His performance in La Liga and CL was not good enough in 2017, they changed him for Valverde and won the league at a canter in 2018.

Keep in mind the player material in every one of those situations was of course very good, but also they performed badly under the old coach and the squads were not transformed in huge scale. Some guys like Heynckes or Zidane couldn‘t make big signings and Valverde even lost his second best player.

The managers were the only decisive changing variable in those cases and they affected the performances and results quickly and with much success.

You're observing a closed poll.

 

[Don Alfredo]

You're observing a closed poll.

Cheers, didn‘t pay attention to that. Would have been interesting to have a poll during the recent and future developments, as some kind of constant opinion parameter.

 

[Sky1981]

I am observing if there was some shifting of votes after the Martial news by Bouhafsi. Interestingly enough, there was no big shift at all and I remember the share for sacking being 33% some time ago.

All in all, if a manager has 1/3 of his club‘s fanbase calling for his head, that is a sign that things are going south rather quickly. If that number rises to 50% or thereabouts, you would think it would be unavoidable to sack him. Or else you risk a Wenger situation, with a manager who dominates everything on the inside and has no confidence from the outside, leading to a toxic environment and trust issues on all sides.

Holding onto a manager without the trust from the outside (fans, players, agents, sponsors etc) makes no sense and the most successfull clubs are those who act quickly nowadays.

Look at Real Madrid in 2015, they lost ground in La Liga with Benitez, changed him for Zidane and won the CL at the end of the season.

Likewise Bayern, got rid of Ancelotti sitting in 3rd place a few weeks into the season, lured back Heynckes and won the title in convincing fashion.

Barca does the same if a manager doesn‘t deliver (anymore). Luis Enrique was treble winner in 2015, domestic double winner in 2016 and domestic cup winner in 2017. His performance in La Liga and CL was not good enough in 2017, they changed him for Valverde and won the league at a canter in 2018.

Keep in mind the player material in every one of those situations was of course very good, but also they performed badly under the old coach and the squads were not transformed in huge scale. Some guys like Heynckes or Zidane couldn‘t make big signings and Valverde even lost his second best player.

The managers were the only decisive changing variable in those cases and they affected the performances and results quickly and with much success.

Have you accounted rival players vote? Most of them voted to keep moyes. Now they voted to sack mourinho.

 

[Don Alfredo]

Have you accounted rival players vote? Most of them voted to keep moyes. Now they voted to sack mourinho.

That makes no sense. Most rival fans are happy that Mourinho is at Utd because he is seen as inferior to their managers. If you ask a City, Pool or Spurs fan if they would trade Pep, Klopp or Poch for Mourinho, not one of those fans would like that idea.

 

[Jonno]

Not disputing that we have been steered in the right direction, but I fear that's all Jose is capable of doing. We have a better squad than Liverpool to boot. But Klopp had his performing above expectations in a system that maximised their strengths. Yes we play 2-3 different ways but it is that lack of a settled system that gets the best out of our players that is the cause for our inconsistency. Beat top teams 1 day and draw/lose to mid-table or bottom team the next. United is not an underdog team. Reactionary tactics do not suit us and certainly do not suit the group of players we have. We were 4 and 6 points off Spurs and Liverpool respectively. That's not a huge gap.

You say this yet we cleared 80+ points, we might have dropped a few points when we shouldn't have, but we have done this a lot less than every other competitor bar City, so shouldn't other managers who have been in their roles just as long or longer, be criticized by their fans as much as Mourinho does?

I agree with you though, that if Mourinho can't build on this then ultimately he will probably need to go.

I just don't understand why fans are so keen to rush to the conclusion that he's "going to go if we don't push on" when clearly we've just pushed on. Why no praise where it's due?

 

[LeftyBlaster]

You say this yet we cleared 80+ points, we might have dropped a few points when we shouldn't have, but we have done this a lot less than every other competitor bar City, so shouldn't other managers who have been in their roles just as long or longer, be criticized by their fans as much as Mourinho does?

I agree with you though, that if Mourinho can't build on this then ultimately he will probably need to go.

I just don't understand why fans are so keen to rush to the conclusion that he's "going to go if we don't push on" when clearly we've just pushed on. Why no praise where it's due?

For a couple of reasons I guess. The first being that Jose has had a better squad and more funds to work with. Barring City’s I wouldn’t swap our squad for anyone else’s. He really should have us playing better or at the very least showing that he is working towards implementing one that lets us play to our potential. Instead, it feels like we are stumbling and struggling most games relying on individual quality to pull us through. That’s the second reason for me. *shrug* but that’s just me being a bastard maybe

 

[Sky1981]

He can't go soon enough, I just don't think he's the guy for the job. His negatives far outweigh his positives. One thing I don't understand is why the rebuild of the squad taken so long? Do you really need 5 Windows to realise Blind and Darmian aren't gonna cut it? Jose has been too slow on this.

We need 5 windows because nobody bid for them.

 

[Sky1981]

That makes no sense. Most rival fans are happy that Mourinho is at Utd because he is seen as inferior to their managers. If you ask a City, Pool or Spurs fan if they would trade Pep, Klopp or Poch for Mourinho, not one of those fans would like that idea.

What doesnt make sense? Liverpool fans wanted moyes to stay, who doesn't? They're the scouse dreams comes true. Now they want mourinho sacked. Do you honestly thinks they want him sacked because he's not good for us?

 

[walkinhop]

Liverpool, 3rd in the league and a Champions League final, not bad for a "feeder club", right?

Tottenham, probably the 2nd best squad in the Premier League, yet we comfortably finished well above them.

So yeah, we did show them, what's your point?

My point is that we shouldn't want too much recognition for beating them. Sure, it's great for bragging rights but the only target worth recognizing domestically should be the PL title.

People forget the couple of nice wins against rivals if the overall showing is not that good. What does a win versus Tottenham does for you when you know the next match again bottom team is going to be boring, uninspiring, and a loss?

So, yeah. These wins are nice and they get the deserved recognition. Let's face it, we should be beating a Mignolet/Karius one man show. Even if we don't, a draw is a perfectly acceptable outcome.

 

[Beachryan]

He's clearly going to be given this season, so we might as well accept that. We have a reasonably gentle start to the season (at least through mid October) so I'd expect him to not just be taking points, but also showing progress in attacking sense.

We created the 6th most chances last year in the league, and also conceded more than any of the top 6. Those are positions that will very, very rarely yield a 2nd place finish. If we perform like that again, we won't finish second.

Liverpool look stronger than at the start of last season, and have added 2 good midfield options. City are streets ahead of us already. Spurs will be similar to last year, and Arsenal have to get better under a new manager. So we have a challenge just to be in the top 4.

If Jose wants to remain relevant in the discussion of current top managers, he has to not just get us gaining similar points to this season, but he has to do it in a way that makes the fans - and the players - happier. Because there is clear malaise in both, and at some point it will be too much.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Have you accounted rival players vote? Most of them voted to keep moyes. Now they voted to sack mourinho.

Got proof of the 502 votes being made up of a large contingent of rival fans?

In the broad spectrum it’s less than 2000 people’s opinion so it hardly reflects on the entire fanbases opinion. I’ve sort of just given up caring about Jose, it is what it is. He’ll be here then one day he won’t. Hopefully it’s not a mid season sacking tho as that means we’ve really screwed up and it’s at the end of a year with him hopefully stepping down.

 

[Greck]

Got proof of the 502 votes being made up of a large contingent of rival fans?

In the broad spectrum it’s less than 2000 people’s opinion so it hardly reflects on the entire fanbases opinion. I’ve sort of just given up caring about Jose, it is what it is. He’ll be here then one day he won’t. Hopefully it’s not a mid season sacking tho as that means we’ve really screwed up and it’s at the end of a year with him hopefully stepping down.

Some rival fans probably even voted for him to stay. Heard arsenal fans were singing these words at OT. Don't know if true

 

[Sky1981]

Got proof of the 502 votes being made up of a large contingent of rival fans?

In the broad spectrum it’s less than 2000 people’s opinion so it hardly reflects on the entire fanbases opinion. I’ve sort of just given up caring about Jose, it is what it is. He’ll be here then one day he won’t. Hopefully it’s not a mid season sacking tho as that means we’ve really screwed up and it’s at the end of a year with him hopefully stepping down.

You can have a quick count, it's not that hard.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

You can have a quick count, it's not that hard.

So you don’t. Fair enough just say that. Although anyone who goes counts all those names then cross checks against what team they support, then well....

It would be intresting to know although surely any poll on a forum that is for voting should be anonymous.

People like Jose, people don’t like Jose, people think he is doing a good job, people think he is doing an average or rubbish job. I’ve given up caring really. United will still be around long after he’s gone. Hopefully he gets it right this coming season in a lot more ways than just winning a trophy.

 

[red4ever 79]

I'm a United fan and I chose option 3

 

[Igor Drefljak]

Same

 

[Jojo <3 Mou]

For a couple of reasons I guess. The first being that Jose has had a better squad and more funds to work with. Barring City’s I wouldn’t swap our squad for anyone else’s. He really should have us playing better or at the very least showing that he is working towards implementing one that lets us play to our potential. Instead, it feels like we are stumbling and struggling most games relying on individual quality to pull us through. That’s the second reason for me. *shrug* but that’s just me being a bastard maybe

People always say that we have a good squad. I don't think that its particularly great, we just have a lot of internationals. Who I might say do not perform for the team so what value do they add to the squad?

I dont think that we have a better sqaud than City, Tottenham and Chelsea. City's is obviously better than the rest and Tottenham, Chelsea and United are probably on the same level.

I think that we have a worse starting 11 than both City and Tottenham. Chelsea's starting 11 is comparable to United's and Liverpool and Arsenal are a little off in terms of player history/quality.

But it's not as clear cut as you've suggested or maybe we are using different parameters to judge.

 

[Canagel]

I am observing if there was some shifting of votes after the Martial news by Bouhafsi. Interestingly enough, there was no big shift at all and I remember the share for sacking being 33% some time ago.

All in all, if a manager has 1/3 of his club‘s fanbase calling for his head, that is a sign that things are going south rather quickly. If that number rises to 50% or thereabouts, you would think it would be unavoidable to sack him. Or else you risk a Wenger situation, with a manager who dominates everything on the inside and has no confidence from the outside, leading to a toxic environment and trust issues on all sides.

Holding onto a manager without the trust from the outside (fans, players, agents, sponsors etc) makes no sense and the most successfull clubs are those who act quickly nowadays.

Look at Real Madrid in 2015, they lost ground in La Liga with Benitez, changed him for Zidane and won the CL at the end of the season.

Likewise Bayern, got rid of Ancelotti sitting in 3rd place a few weeks into the season, lured back Heynckes and won the title in convincing fashion.

Barca does the same if a manager doesn‘t deliver (anymore). Luis Enrique was treble winner in 2015, domestic double winner in 2016 and domestic cup winner in 2017. His performance in La Liga and CL was not good enough in 2017, they changed him for Valverde and won the league at a canter in 2018.

Keep in mind the player material in every one of those situations was of course very good, but also they performed badly under the old coach and the squads were not transformed in huge scale. Some guys like Heynckes or Zidane couldn‘t make big signings and Valverde even lost his second best player.

The managers were the only decisive changing variable in those cases and they affected the performances and results quickly and with much success.

This is why I have full confidence that changing Mourinho won't affect things going forward. You always hear "but but we need stability post SAF" and "we've let him buy lots of players so let him finish his rebuild" etc etc. These clubs you've mentioned don't mess around. If they see its not working they change it and quickly. Our board would wait until we finish out top 4 before contemplating sacking Mourinho.

 

[Adisa]

What doesnt make sense? Liverpool fans wanted moyes to stay, who doesn't? They're the scouse dreams comes true. Now they want mourinho sacked. Do you honestly thinks they want him sacked because he's not good for us?

Most rival fans I know quite like that he's our coach and enjoy our moans about the football being played.

 

[Adisa]

He's the kind of manager that is either win or nothing with him.
Hope he starts winning.

 

[Sky1981]

So you don’t. Fair enough just say that. Although anyone who goes counts all those names then cross checks against what team they support, then well....

It would be intresting to know although surely any poll on a forum that is for voting should be anonymous.

People like Jose, people don’t like Jose, people think he is doing a good job, people think he is doing an average or rubbish job. I’ve given up caring really. United will still be around long after he’s gone. Hopefully he gets it right this coming season in a lot more ways than just winning a trophy.

I've past the point of caring. Its just that 33 percent wants him out isnt a clear indication of 33 percent of united fans wants him out. Not when a big chunk of it wasnt a united supporter to begin with