Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added

[iamherenow]

I blame mourinho for the defeat against sevilla..
People keep saying we have good enough attackers and should be getting more out of them,but ignores that our midfield options is dire apart from pogba and matic..our fullbacks are average and I can only point to Bailly as the promising centre back we have..

We still have a lot of Deadwood and average players that turn in good performances and bad ones.

 

[Swift Football]

Loads of bulls**t. So he needs to sign all 11 players to be called a Jose team? Many managers sign cheaper alternatives if they feel like the existing ones are not good enough, there is no need to sign superstar in every position.

Jose's words - everyone knows what he told in press conference. It did not sound anything like United have been in this position and have bounced back. It sounded more like its not me or my style, its United - who are sh*t in europe, and were sh*t in europe even under SAF. Nobody can read his inner intentions, but thats how I take it. Grow some balls and take the blame.

Until now, I feel like we were improving in a good pace. Rebuilding a team is not something that can happen overnight, but he did spend a good time with the squad now and the team should be playing better. I do not have any problem in his ultra defensive style, or his pragmatic approach for playing away games, or few shocks or few shambolic performances. Happens in a long season. But our planning for this Sevilla game both home and away was a level beyond that, playing against Sevilla with one man midfield, not changing anything in around 35' mark when we hardly had any control, and not changing anything in half time. I have lost all my trust in Jose after this game, and his post match comments.

Nobody, including manager, should have free pass. These bunch are paid handsome money for producing in games like these, and they all collectively shi*t. I think, in our remaining home games, we should boo whenever our defender makes a back pass, or when they pass the ball among themselves. I still do not understand what is our plan to take the ball forward - I cannot believe we struggle so much in doing such basics, and on top of that we exacerbate the problem by playing one man midfield!! Jose should be briefed by Ed Woodward regarding his comments, and also the expectations in next season. The fans' and players' confidence in manager has waned a lot after this game, and righty so.

 

[Axkiko]

Sorry, but it happens more often than not and is quite a common observation.

You have to take into account the strength of a team and whether the existing players fit the manager’s preferred profile.

Not even one Sevilla player were brought from Montella. It's not an excuse why we were poor. No club will spent money on 20 top players for one manager within 2 years. Any manager needs to make the best of current players.

I agreed top manager should be allow to buy the player fit his preferred profile, but Mourinho decided to name his 'Mourinho team' Pogba and Lindelof on the bench. It's more than £100m.

 

[L1nk]

Mourinho must be delighted that there are so many fans who are willing to continually shift the goalposts for him.

He himself talked about challenging for the title in his first season. That went tits up, we crashed to our worst league finish since Moyes, and he barely rescued CL qualification with a scrappy EL win against cannon-fodder, which was then promptly talked up as a big achievement by the same manager and fans who have ridiculed the competition in the past. Then we were told that he needed the first season for the rebuild, and that expectations should be much higher in his second season because that’s always when his teams truly come together. Well, again we haven’t been close to challenging for the league title, have crashed out of CL with a whimper against a second-rate team, and haven’t remotely looked like a team with the mentality and quality to be able to challenge for major honours or compete with the very biggest clubs. More often than not we look completely and utterly clueless, incapable of keeping the ball for any sustained period of time, and so sloppy and lethargic that you begin to question whether the players and the manager really give a shit. We’ve become a laughing stock around Europe for the quality of our football after all that money spent.

Now we’re being told that next season is when we should be expecting to see Mourinho’s vision (whatever that might be, it’s still not clear) somehow magically come to fruition. Somehow I find myself doubting that.

Someone actually talking some sense for a change, great post. Every year is a rebuilding year and clear the deadwood year for our club, for some reason. People don't like the words but i've said their is a cult of Mourinho on this forum willing to go above and beyond to protect everything he does, even after that Sevilla defeat people are still defending him from that match alone. "He needs more time he needs more money" so he can not get the best out of more players he buys then? So we can continue to play the same farcical negative joyless way we did against Sevilla all the time no matter who is signed? No thank you.

 

[Klean]

There is plenty of overreaction in this thread from the result on Tuesday still. We are on 65 points in 30 games. That's a pace that for a season puts us on 82 points and would be good enough to be top or within a game or two of EVERY Premier League Season since its inception. It looks out of proportion since City have been unbelievably good this season and are on pace to smash the points record. The results this year have been mixed but we are scoring more goals and getting better results.

I'm not always going to defend the manager because we have had some horrible performances that have been frustrating, but as a whole things are improving from last year and greatly improved since LVG. Anyone who doesn't see this is incredibly short sided based on the Tuesday result. We have won 3 trophies since he has came and have a chance to win the FA cup as well. Give the man 3 years like he wanted and then we can go from there. Everything is trending favorably so far.

 

[Abhinav]

The form and play over the last three months has been a little disappointing to say the least. I think a key turning point was the defeat to City that killed all hopes for the premier league. Our form in all competitions before the city match and after the city match reads like this:
Pre City (Including the city match): 18W 2D 4L
Post City: 12W 4D 4L
That said, the team showed character in the last three matches and raised our expectation for the Seville match.
The defeat has deflated the morale and optimisim of the fan base. Its understandable. But we have had a couple of days to deal with that. I cannot understand the continued hatred, disgust and frustration of the fan base against Jose now though.
Jose tactics for the Seville game was terrible and he made big mistakes. That doesn’t take away from the fact that this team has shown itself to be inconsistent. IMO it was not ready to challenge the PL and CL at any time of the season.
So, this disproportionate reaction against the manager after the defeat seems childish and immature.
Objectively, the results and to an extent the play from the last season have improved decently. We are moving in the right direction, sacking Jose will not help the club in any way or form.
The next few months till the end of the season will be a true test of the character of this team. Lets do our job and help them finish on a high. All this negativity is harmful and has the potential to snowball and disrupt all the progress that has taken place till now.

 

[Axkiko]

There is plenty of overreaction in this thread from the result on Tuesday still. We are on 65 points in 30 games. That's a pace that for a season puts us on 82 points and would be good enough to be top or within a game or two of EVERY Premier League Season since its inception. It looks out of proportion since City have been unbelievably good this season and are on pace to smash the points record. The results this year have been mixed but we are scoring more goals and getting better results.

I'm not always going to defend the manager because we have had some horrible performances that have been frustrating, but as a whole things are improving from last year and greatly improved since LVG. Anyone who doesn't see this is incredibly short sided based on the Tuesday result. We have won 3 trophies since he has came and have a chance to win the FA cup as well. Give the man 3 years like he wanted and then we can go from there. Everything is trending favorably so far.

No offense, I would never count Community Shield as a trophy. other two trophies he got were second tier trophies, League cup and Euorpa. We are not asking to win the CL this season, but progressing to quarter-final should be comfortable because of our easy group stage and Sevilla.

 

[Klean]

No offense, I would never count Community Shield as a trophy. other two trophies he got were second tier trophies, League cup and Euorpa. We are not asking to win the CL this season, but progressing to quarter-final should be comfortable because of our easy group stage and Sevilla.

I only count it because the club counts it (http://www.manutd.com/en/Players-And-Staff/Managers/Jose-Mourinho.aspx?section=Trophies). I agree that the tactics against Sevilla were very naive and more like a team that was an underdog rather than a favorite. But we saw the same tactics against Liverpool and people didn't care, they only cared about the result. I'm just as disappointed as everyone else, but to put all of the blame on the manager who didn't kick a ball is a little disappointing when there were plenty of players who underwhelmed. Also admittedly I watched the game on TV but the atmosphere didn't have the same buzz in the stadium either.

My point was the team is progressing. We are in second place, still alive in the FA cup and should qualify for the CL again with ease. The performances as a whole have been better (even though there have been some poor efforts) and should continue to improve.

 

[SwSw]

Loads of bulls**t. So he needs to sign all 11 players to be called a Jose team? Many managers sign cheaper alternatives if they feel like the existing ones are not good enough, there is no need to sign superstar in every position.

Jose's words - everyone knows what he told in press conference. It did not sound anything like United have been in this position and have bounced back. It sounded more like its not me or my style, its United - who are sh*t in europe, and were sh*t in europe even under SAF. Nobody can read his inner intentions, but thats how I take it. Grow some balls and take the blame.

Until now, I feel like we were improving in a good pace. Rebuilding a team is not something that can happen overnight, but he did spend a good time with the squad now and the team should be playing better. I do not have any problem in his ultra defensive style, or his pragmatic approach for playing away games, or few shocks or few shambolic performances. Happens in a long season. But our planning for this Sevilla game both home and away was a level beyond that, playing against Sevilla with one man midfield, not changing anything in around 35' mark when we hardly had any control, and not changing anything in half time. I have lost all my trust in Jose after this game, and his post match comments.

Nobody, including manager, should have free pass. These bunch are paid handsome money for producing in games like these, and they all collectively shi*t. I think, in our remaining home games, we should boo whenever our defender makes a back pass, or when they pass the ball among themselves. I still do not understand what is our plan to take the ball forward - I cannot believe we struggle so much in doing such basics, and on top of that we exacerbate the problem by playing one man midfield!! Jose should be briefed by Ed Woodward regarding his comments, and also the expectations in next season. The fans' and players' confidence in manager has waned a lot after this game, and righty so.

I don't think he implied that he needs 11 Jose players to be successful. However, you can fault the man when the players signed by LVG and Moyes have been utter garbage. Let's be fair, the players signed by Jose have been pretty alright and did generally well through his tenure so far. The only anomaly was Mkhitaryan and to a certain extent Sanchez. I think Sanchez deserves a little more time considering he came in without pre-season and was pretty much playing non-stop the last few years. I think the "galactico policy" has been pushed by the board. I don't think Mourinho implied he wanted a superstar in every position. The only superstar he bought was Pogba and Zlatan with the later being free. I don't think we can classify Matic, Lindelof, Bailly and even Lukaku as superstars.

I think Jose deserves the benefit of a doubt considering he isn't an English speaker. However, for argument sake, let's say his words were as your interpretation, i think it was a good deflection and shielded the players.

I do feel that we are still improving. We have been playing with a one man midfield during the start of the season when Pogba and Matic played in the pivot. We got away with it. Why do you only lose your trust after a lost? The problems were there for months. So, let's not over react after a defeat. Shit happens, we will improve.

 

[Swift Football]

I only count it because the club counts it (http://www.manutd.com/en/Players-And-Staff/Managers/Jose-Mourinho.aspx?section=Trophies). I agree that the tactics against Sevilla were very naive and more like a team that was an underdog rather than a favorite. But we saw the same tactics against Liverpool and people didn't care, they only cared about the result. I'm just as disappointed as everyone else, but to put all of the blame on the manager who didn't kick a ball is a little disappointing when there were plenty of players who underwhelmed. Also admittedly I watched the game on TV but the atmosphere didn't have the same buzz in the stadium either.

My point was the team is progressing. We are in second place, still alive in the FA cup and should qualify for the CL again with ease. The performances as a whole have been better (even though there have been some poor efforts) and should continue to improve.

The tactics against Liverpool and Sevilla were not the same. We had proper double pivot against Liverpool, against Sevilla we had one man midfield.
Jose guessed that Fellaini will win lots of headers and we will play from there, but that just dint happen. The knock offs from Fellaini were all picked up by Sevilla players. They showed in their home match that both Banega and Nzonzi are comfortable with ball, and we occasionally pressed them both, allowing Kjaer to have the ball. What we dint plan for was Kjaer was more than comfortable easily finding their attackers and midfielders, and he was happily doing that all game long, assisted by our decision not to press him all game long until it was already too late.

Regarding atmosphere, it goes both way, its difficult for fans to produce the noise/atmosphere when your defenders literally make 8 passes among themselves before Valencia/Young hoof the ball. Hoofing is also not a problem as long as its done as a part of plan, but we looked like we hoofed because we do not know what to do with ball. If hoofing was our plan, then why play 8 passes, Smalling could simpley hoof it first time towards one direction, at least that might catch them by surprise or catch them out of position.

We are second placed, and I am happy with that, but we are yet to play against City and Arsenal. And if we get one more defeat, then we are very much in top 4 fight. We are still in FA cup, but it does not take much for us to get knocked out, as we have found out against Sevilla and Bristol City already this season. Brighton's midfield of Propper, Stephens is no push over, at least not to our manager's no midfield tactics.

Fans have every right to question Jose about Sevilla defeat, no matter we are first or second in the league. The tie was as easy as it could get in last 16 round, and we could have easily gone to quarters, which makes a big difference. This was our good chance to tell everybody that we are back in Europe, but not to be. Now next season, we might draw Barcelona/Madrid in last 16 and get knocked out anyway, that would mean we are out of europe for many years.

I would want fans to boo every time we make a back pass or when defenders pass to each other to remind our manager and players that the work we are putting on is nowhere enough. This team has been crying for good tactics to take the ball forward and our manager and players could not do that basic stuff. Ed should brief Jose as to why we are knocked out against a much smaller team, what does he mean when he used those words at post match conference, what is the plan for next season and what is the expectation next season before investing any more money.

At a massive club like United, it does not take much for all to go downward spiral and the post match comments like the last one is begging for it. This game has left huge negative impression in every way possible. Even though we have improved and improved by a lot, all those good things are overshadowed by this match. For me highlight of the season is - Defeat against Sevilla. I have a feeling this could be a starting of downfall of Jose at United. Now, every match he plays defensive will be met with Sevilla comparisons, and even though he might pull out victory in brilliant way, people including fans will point out - 'it was good that we won, but we are sooner or later bound to have match like Sevilla' , even though it might not be true. So, for right or wrong reasons, I see this ending badly for Jose.

 

[deafepl]

I wouldn't mind making Zlatan our next manager. He is well respected, charismatic, intelligent and tactically aware. He is a legend of the game and I think he can be a really good manager. Madrid did it with Zidane, Barca did it with Pep, why can't we do it with Zlatan?

Obviously it is never going to happen but I think it would've been a breath of fresh air after going with the so-called proven managers who are clearly past it.

Have you watched Kieran Mckenna's United U18 side yet? they have thrashing everyone in the north league, and his footballing is soo beautiful and play so excellent. He's one I want him to manage the United if we will go on the same path as Barca with pep and Real Madrid with Zidane. He's also United fans.

 

[Swift Football]

I don't think he implied that he needs 11 Jose players to be successful. However, you can fault the man when the players signed by LVG and Moyes have been utter garbage. Let's be fair, the players signed by Jose have been pretty alright and did generally well through his tenure so far. The only anomaly was Mkhitaryan and to a certain extent Sanchez. I think Sanchez deserves a little more time considering he came in without pre-season and was pretty much playing non-stop the last few years. I think the "galactico policy" has been pushed by the board. I don't think Mourinho implied he wanted a superstar in every position. The only superstar he bought was Pogba and Zlatan with the later being free. I don't think we can classify Matic, Lindelof, Bailly and even Lukaku as superstars.

I think Jose deserves the benefit of a doubt considering he isn't an English speaker. However, for argument sake, let's say his words were as your interpretation, i think it was a good deflection and shielded the players.

I do feel that we are still improving. We have been playing with a one man midfield during the start of the season when Pogba and Matic played in the pivot. We got away with it. Why do you only lose your trust after a lost? The problems were there for months. So, let's not over react after a defeat. Shit happens, we will improve.

I do not know why you are trying to find excuse for Jose, and a bad one at that. Jose had 2 windows so far, so if he thought the players we had bar his signings is not good enough, then why he spend all transfer budget in one or two signings? Why not distribute it evenly and have 4or 5 decent players instead. Regarding Sanchez's needing preseason to impress, that is another lie, first of all, that is something known when you are signing a player in January, and if he indeed needed more time to gel, why did he start almost all the games after he was signed, why not bench him for a while and give him time to gel. The answer is - Jose signed him because Sanchez is top player but when it dint work out after 4-5 games, he still persisted with him - that is a mistake.

I do not argue regarding his signings. His signings have been top notch to be honest, and that is one aspect Jose is fantastic at. Only signing I rate poorly is Lindelof ( i do not rate signing Sanchez as poor, at least not yet) but the point here is what about players he dint sign. Quite obviously, you have to make use of what we have got, or you think they are nowhere close, then you have to find some budget alternative. I am sure, we have enough to beat that Sevilla team at home. If he needs all 11 players to be his signing, it will take many years for him to have it. Like two of his signings wont be there next season. Even when he has close to 11 of his signings, then people will find excuse saying what about backups. Then some of his signings will leave for whatever reason, and he has to get a new one to replace them and the cycle continues.

If Jose wanted to shield the players, first why not just say " I take the blame for defeat". Is it really hard to say that considering it is in fashion among managers to say so when they are defeated. And second, why to shield the players if they are not able to execute his plan. If indeed, it was his plan, did it prevent people from questioning Pogba or Sanchez. I doubt it did.

The difference between now and the starting of season is Pogba is totally out of form now and maybe lacking in confidence. The defensive side of the game was never his forte, but now he has regressed more and he does not do enough in the attacking third either. I lose trust after this because we were bad in Sevilla away game and we had chance to study them, and plan where they can be hurt, and had home advantage. When game started, apart from first 10 mins, it looked like the continuation of Sevilla away game, ineffective tactics and no motivation. We have not played in Quarters from long time, and this was our chance and yet we failed quite miserably. At a game which is arguably one of the most important game yet, when we needed desire, motivation and good tactics, we could not manage to do a single thing correctly. What was more hurting was our manager kept on watching the dross, and did not try to change anything. The problems were there for months, but the games like these are the ones people remember and take reference from, so this is our huge loss, and especially Jose's.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Those supporters who want Mourinho out don't really have a clue about who they would appoint to replace him.The grass isn't always greener on the other side,there are very few top class managers who are available and/or have the stature to manage United.I wouldn't chose any of these managers(Zidane,Enrique,Ancelotti,Tuchel) over Mourinho....I really like Pochettino but I think that even he needs at least another 3-4 years of success before he can take on United....

 

[Kapardin]

Those supporters who want Mourinho out don't really have a clue about who they would appoint to replace him.The grass isn't always greener on the other side,there are very few top class managers who are available and/or have the stature to manage United.I wouldn't chose any of these managers(Zidane,Enrique,Ancelotti,Tuchel) over Mourinho....I really like Pochettino but I think that even he needs at least another 3-4 years of success before he can take on United....

Only one I would have is Allegri. The rest are not yet (or not, period) good enough for United.

Read on Twitter that we are averaging 2.17 points in the league, which puts us on course for 83-84 points, which in turn would be enough for the title in most seasons. The Sevilla game is a major black mark, but it is not the only thing that should be used to define the season.

 

[gajender]

Only one I would have is Allegri. The rest are not yet (or not, period) good enough for United.

Read on Twitter that we are averaging 2.17 points in the league, which puts us on course for 83-84 points, which in turn would be enough for the title in most seasons. The Sevilla game is a major black mark, but it is not the only thing that should be used to define the season.

Allegri is a great manager who has requisite experience of managing big clubs and has also won stuff but he again is in the mould of pragmatic manager who prefers reactive football rather than proactive approach which would again frustrate and disappoint large segment of our support base if we fail to win big title in his very first season , for once we rather show some imagination and bravery in our Managerial appointment and go for some progressive manager even if they are bit green in terms of managing a big club or lack winning pedigree currently.

 

[Z1L3]

It was a bad performance and a bad result, but the mood swings and overreactions in this forum after every match are over the top. I also had hopes that United could pull off a miracle and win CL this year, but if we're being honest, it would've been a miracle.

 

[TRD]

We have certainly improved under Mourinho as compared to Moyes or Van Gaal. The main difference is that under Moyes and Van Gaal, we used to pass backwards or sideways but now under Mourinho we pass sideways and pump the ball in the box. All other things are same as it was under Van Gaal. I even don't feel watching remaining matches this season especially away games as we all know that Mourinho will be looking to play defensively in those games.

 

[Kapardin]

It was a bad performance and a bad result, but the mood swings and overreactions in this forum after every match are over the top. I also had hopes that United could pull off a miracle and win CL this year, but if we're being honest, it would've been a miracle.

Its' not about winning the CL, but wanting to be in Europe for as long as possible and have midweek CL games. Pretty depressing to go out so disappointingly early when the opponent was not even a tough one.

Now even seeing Arsenal progress in a European competition just makes me more bitter that we have no more such games this season.

 

[buckooo1978]

I only count it because the club counts it (http://www.manutd.com/en/Players-And-Staff/Managers/Jose-Mourinho.aspx?section=Trophies). I agree that the tactics against Sevilla were very naive and more like a team that was an underdog rather than a favorite. But we saw the same tactics against Liverpool and people didn't care, they only cared about the result. I'm just as disappointed as everyone else, but to put all of the blame on the manager who didn't kick a ball is a little disappointing when there were plenty of players who underwhelmed. Also admittedly I watched the game on TV but the atmosphere didn't have the same buzz in the stadium either.

My point was the team is progressing. We are in second place, still alive in the FA cup and should qualify for the CL again with ease. The performances as a whole have been better (even though there have been some poor efforts) and should continue to improve.

no we didn't

We played McTominay alongside Matic against Liverpool which allowed us to control most of the first half. It gave us protection against their fast breaks and gave more freedom to Rashford, Mata, Lukaku and Sanchez. We also played Rashford is his natural position. The mentality was very positive in the first half though it regressed in the second giving Liverpool a foothold in the game.

Against Sevilla Matic was isolated and we didn't seek to control the game. He played Rashford out of position and dropped two passing players like Mata and McTominay which help us control. Fellaini instead popped the ball to someone then ran forward in the hope we would pump it up to him and we might win the second balls. That was our grand tactical plan.

I agree with the sentiment that under his leadership we have progressed but I think, given his attitude, mentality and attacking philosophy, we have plateaued....for me this is as good as it gets under Jose and we aren't going to win a League under him I can say with confidence

you wonder what kind of season we might have had if Jose had played to win at Anfield at the start of the season. Jose is who he is though... never go into any kind of relationship...be it professional or personal and expect someone to change... this is what we signed up for

 

[Listar]

Win against Chelsea
Epic comeback against Palace
Win against Liverpool
Knock out of UCL

Sack the manager

 

[Treble]

Win against Chelsea
Epic comeback against Palace
Win against Liverpool
Knock out of UCL

Sack the manager

And lose vs Basel
Lose vs Bristol
Lose vs Huddersfield
Lose vs Newcastle

Too many losses vs average teams there.

 

[fellaini's barber]

I don't think he implied that he needs 11 Jose players to be successful. However, you can fault the man when the players signed by LVG and Moyes have been utter garbage. Let's be fair, the players signed by Jose have been pretty alright and did generally well through his tenure so far. The only anomaly was Mkhitaryan and to a certain extent Sanchez. I think Sanchez deserves a little more time considering he came in without pre-season and was pretty much playing non-stop the last few years. I think the "galactico policy" has been pushed by the board. I don't think Mourinho implied he wanted a superstar in every position. The only superstar he bought was Pogba and Zlatan with the later being free. I don't think we can classify Matic, Lindelof, Bailly and even Lukaku as superstars.

I think Jose deserves the benefit of a doubt considering he isn't an English speaker. However, for argument sake, let's say his words were as your interpretation, i think it was a good deflection and shielded the players.

I do feel that we are still improving. We have been playing with a one man midfield during the start of the season when Pogba and Matic played in the pivot. We got away with it. Why do you only lose your trust after a lost? The problems were there for months. So, let's not over react after a defeat. Shit happens, we will improve.

I'm not sure I'd like to let Jose sign a team full of 'his own' players, seeing how much he loves Fellaini, his treatment of Martial, and how some of the ones he's already signed are faring. He does not need 11 of 'his own' players to put up a better attacking display than the shite we're being served up. He's always been smug about his needing only 3-4 players every transfer which he mostly gets, when it turns out not to be good enough you guys make it an excuse for him

 

[Kapardin]

And lose vs Basel
Lose vs Bristol
Lose vs Huddersfield
Lose vs Newcastle

Too many losses vs average teams there.

You think another manager won't ever lose against smaller teams if he takes over?

Leave Basel out btw. They always get their customary win over an English side no matter what.

 

[Treble]

You think another manager won't ever lose against smaller teams if he takes over?

Leave Basel out btw. They always get their customary win over an English side no matter what.

No, the context in which to evaluate Jose's success here should be much broader and not a sequence of 4 results. What irks most fans are not the results but the style/tactics. Any team can lose vs Sevilla because football is unpredictable. But one can lose in very very different ways. One can smash the opposition, hit the bar twice and force fantastic saves. Or die without knowing what he/she is doing. The game vs Sevilla was pathetic and wiped out the good things in the previous 3 games. Because, and that's the worst part, it wasn't a big surprise either. The ship has been steadied to an extent but is still far from competing with the big ships even after 300m investments. And performs cowardly against much cheaper ships (to extend the figure further).

 

[Listar]

No, the context in which to evaluate Jose's success here should be much broader and not a sequence of 4 results. What irks most fans are not the results but the style/tactics. Any team can lose vs Sevilla because football is unpredictable. But one can lose in very very different ways. One can smash the opposition, hit the bar twice and force fantastic saves. Or die without knowing what he/she is doing. The game vs Sevilla was pathetic and wiped out the good things in the previous 3 games. Because, and that's the worst part, it wasn't a big surprise either. The ship has been steadied to an extent but is still far from competing with the big ships even after 300m investments. And performs cowardly against much cheaper ships (to extend the figure further).

You seem to be just one of the sheep that follow general consensus of Mourinho play style. What play style was it against Chelsea palace Liverpool and Sevilla? Are they all the same? Why did we lose against Sevilla? Was it because of play style or a combination of tactics and players performance?

All I know was the games against Chelsea Palace Liverpool reminded me of SAF reign with the roller coaster of emotions. I can forgive one result of Sevilla just as we (or at least me) didn't call for SAF head when we got knocked out in the UCL group stage against "lesser" teams.

 

[Siorac]

Only one I would have is Allegri. The rest are not yet (or not, period) good enough for United.

Read on Twitter that we are averaging 2.17 points in the league, which puts us on course for 83-84 points, which in turn would be enough for the title in most seasons. The Sevilla game is a major black mark, but it is not the only thing that should be used to define the season.

Points totals of title winners in the past 10 years:
93, 81, 87, 86, 89, 89, 80, 86, 90, 87.

83-84 points is usually enough for second or third. Which isn't bad after years of being shite but let's not pretend it's a title-winning campaign but for City's ridiculous run.

 

[Listar]

The tactics against Liverpool and Sevilla were not the same. We had proper double pivot against Liverpool, against Sevilla we had one man midfield.
Jose guessed that Fellaini will win lots of headers and we will play from there, but that just dint happen. The knock offs from Fellaini were all picked up by Sevilla players. They showed in their home match that both Banega and Nzonzi are comfortable with ball, and we occasionally pressed them both, allowing Kjaer to have the ball. What we dint plan for was Kjaer was more than comfortable easily finding their attackers and midfielders, and he was happily doing that all game long, assisted by our decision not to press him all game long until it was already too late.

Regarding atmosphere, it goes both way, its difficult for fans to produce the noise/atmosphere when your defenders literally make 8 passes among themselves before Valencia/Young hoof the ball. Hoofing is also not a problem as long as its done as a part of plan, but we looked like we hoofed because we do not know what to do with ball. If hoofing was our plan, then why play 8 passes, Smalling could simpley hoof it first time towards one direction, at least that might catch them by surprise or catch them out of position.

We are second placed, and I am happy with that, but we are yet to play against City and Arsenal. And if we get one more defeat, then we are very much in top 4 fight. We are still in FA cup, but it does not take much for us to get knocked out, as we have found out against Sevilla and Bristol City already this season. Brighton's midfield of Propper, Stephens is no push over, at least not to our manager's no midfield tactics.

Fans have every right to question Jose about Sevilla defeat, no matter we are first or second in the league. The tie was as easy as it could get in last 16 round, and we could have easily gone to quarters, which makes a big difference. This was our good chance to tell everybody that we are back in Europe, but not to be. Now next season, we might draw Barcelona/Madrid in last 16 and get knocked out anyway, that would mean we are out of europe for many years.

I would want fans to boo every time we make a back pass or when defenders pass to each other to remind our manager and players that the work we are putting on is nowhere enough. This team has been crying for good tactics to take the ball forward and our manager and players could not do that basic stuff. Ed should brief Jose as to why we are knocked out against a much smaller team, what does he mean when he used those words at post match conference, what is the plan for next season and what is the expectation next season before investing any more money.

At a massive club like United, it does not take much for all to go downward spiral and the post match comments like the last one is begging for it. This game has left huge negative impression in every way possible. Even though we have improved and improved by a lot, all those good things are overshadowed by this match. For me highlight of the season is - Defeat against Sevilla. I have a feeling this could be a starting of downfall of Jose at United. Now, every match he plays defensive will be met with Sevilla comparisons, and even though he might pull out victory in brilliant way, people including fans will point out - 'it was good that we won, but we are sooner or later bound to have match like Sevilla' , even though it might not be true. So, for right or wrong reasons, I see this ending badly for Jose.

The last paragraph is cringe. Your highlight of the season is the defeat against Sevilla. The fact is that we didn't even play defensive against Sevilla. We were just poor throughout. And Jose had his tactics wrong. If we had played defensive we wouldn't have lost the game.

And I'm sorry to have to break this to you, Jose's team, and indeed every team ever in history, will sooner or later bound to have a match like Sevilla.

 

[Listar]

Points totals of title winners in the past 10 years:
93, 81, 87, 86, 89, 89, 80, 86, 90, 87.

83-84 points is usually enough for second or third. Which isn't bad after years of being shite but let's not pretend it's a title-winning campaign but for City's ridiculous run.

I would say its acceptable. Unless you expected us to win the league this season.

 

[Treble]

You seem to be just one of the sheep that follow general consensus of Mourinho play style. What play style was it against Chelsea palace Liverpool and Sevilla? Are they all the same? Why did we lose against Sevilla? Was it because of play style or a combination of tactics and players performance?

All I know was the games against Chelsea Palace Liverpool reminded me of SAF reign with the roller coaster of emotions. I can forgive one result of Sevilla just as we (or at least me) didn't call for SAF head when we got knocked out in the UCL group stage against "lesser" teams.

That's a bit rich from you.

You are entitled of your feelings, impressions, opinions. Thanks for expressing them while respecting those who disagree with you.

 

[Kapardin]

No, the context in which to evaluate Jose's success here should be much broader and not a sequence of 4 results. What irks most fans are not the results but the style/tactics. Any team can lose vs Sevilla because football is unpredictable. But one can lose in very very different ways. One can smash the opposition, hit the bar twice and force fantastic saves. Or die without knowing what he/she is doing. The game vs Sevilla was pathetic and wiped out the good things in the previous 3 games. Because, and that's the worst part, it wasn't a big surprise either. The ship has been steadied to an extent but is still far from competing with the big ships even after 300m investments. And performs cowardly against much cheaper ships (to extend the figure further).

That's true. I don't deny Sevilla game was atrocious.

 

[Siorac]

I would say its acceptable. Unless you expected us to win the league this season.

It is acceptable. Not great but acceptable. Considering the money spent, it's about on par after last season's terrible showing.

 

[Listar]

That's a bit rich from you.

You are entitled of your feelings, impressions, opinions. Thanks for expressing them while respecting those who disagree with you.

Nope, I call it as I see it. When you repeat lines from general consensus without any basis, then that's what I called a sheep.

Fact is Mourinho playstyle was not the same in last 5 matches. Saying he went defensive is just being lazy.

 

[Maradona10]

Loads of bulls**t. So he needs to sign all 11 players to be called a Jose team? Many managers sign cheaper alternatives if they feel like the existing ones are not good enough, there is no need to sign superstar in every position.

Jose's words - everyone knows what he told in press conference. It did not sound anything like United have been in this position and have bounced back. It sounded more like its not me or my style, its United - who are sh*t in europe, and were sh*t in europe even under SAF. Nobody can read his inner intentions, but thats how I take it. Grow some balls and take the blame.

Until now, I feel like we were improving in a good pace. Rebuilding a team is not something that can happen overnight, but he did spend a good time with the squad now and the team should be playing better. I do not have any problem in his ultra defensive style, or his pragmatic approach for playing away games, or few shocks or few shambolic performances. Happens in a long season. But our planning for this Sevilla game both home and away was a level beyond that, playing against Sevilla with one man midfield, not changing anything in around 35' mark when we hardly had any control, and not changing anything in half time. I have lost all my trust in Jose after this game, and his post match comments.

Nobody, including manager, should have free pass. These bunch are paid handsome money for producing in games like these, and they all collectively shi*t. I think, in our remaining home games, we should boo whenever our defender makes a back pass, or when they pass the ball among themselves. I still do not understand what is our plan to take the ball forward - I cannot believe we struggle so much in doing such basics, and on top of that we exacerbate the problem by playing one man midfield!! Jose should be briefed by Ed Woodward regarding his comments, and also the expectations in next season. The fans' and players' confidence in manager has waned a lot after this game, and righty so.

That is tom clare' page, probably as much informed about the club than anyone outside can be. He does not do bullshit, was right about mkhi, jones etc. I know you have anger at united going out but that does not make one of the oldest fans a bullshitter.

• Rest of your post is justfied by anger, this is plain stupid. Your confidence in manager is waning ok, but you are not the fans or the players, Not woodward nor glazers and definitely not me.
• Every back pass should be booed or when they pass amongst each other be booed? What are you crazy? Its stupid to even think this, LVG must have killed you with number of passes among themselves, Guardiola's players, spain's team all do it ALOT.
• Jose is always briefed by woodward and jose would have told woodward why he said what he said. BTW Woodward said, liverpool sell lot of shirts even when not in top 4, so business is sustainable. Now who will you blame?
• I guess after jose has done for them, players would be right behind him. He took the criticism despite improving the players and being let down by them.

Simple thing is my friend, dont believe everything you read. No journo knows what happens in the boardroom. They print things and Manutd in crisis always sells more than manutd improved from last season. They expect fans to fall for it, knowing negativity spreads like wildfire. That happens. I hope people could have brains.

 

[Siorac]

Nope, I call it as I see it. When you repeat lines from general consensus without any basis, then that's what I called a sheep.

Fact is Mourinho playstyle was not the same in last 5 matches. Saying he went defensive is just being lazy.

Bypassing the midfield with long balls, hoping to win second balls from knockdowns of a big target man. Usually Lukaku, against Sevilla it was Lukaku AND Fellaini.

Pretty much how we always set up, at least against remotely decent teams.

 

[SwSw]

I do not know why you are trying to find excuse for Jose, and a bad one at that. Jose had 2 windows so far, so if he thought the players we had bar his signings is not good enough, then why he spend all transfer budget in one or two signings? Why not distribute it evenly and have 4or 5 decent players instead. Regarding Sanchez's needing preseason to impress, that is another lie, first of all, that is something known when you are signing a player in January, and if he indeed needed more time to gel, why did he start almost all the games after he was signed, why not bench him for a while and give him time to gel. The answer is - Jose signed him because Sanchez is top player but when it dint work out after 4-5 games, he still persisted with him - that is a mistake.

I do not argue regarding his signings. His signings have been top notch to be honest, and that is one aspect Jose is fantastic at. Only signing I rate poorly is Lindelof ( i do not rate signing Sanchez as poor, at least not yet) but the point here is what about players he dint sign. Quite obviously, you have to make use of what we have got, or you think they are nowhere close, then you have to find some budget alternative. I am sure, we have enough to beat that Sevilla team at home. If he needs all 11 players to be his signing, it will take many years for him to have it. Like two of his signings wont be there next season. Even when he has close to 11 of his signings, then people will find excuse saying what about backups. Then some of his signings will leave for whatever reason, and he has to get a new one to replace them and the cycle continues.

If Jose wanted to shield the players, first why not just say " I take the blame for defeat". Is it really hard to say that considering it is in fashion among managers to say so when they are defeated. And second, why to shield the players if they are not able to execute his plan. If indeed, it was his plan, did it prevent people from questioning Pogba or Sanchez. I doubt it did.

The difference between now and the starting of season is Pogba is totally out of form now and maybe lacking in confidence. The defensive side of the game was never his forte, but now he has regressed more and he does not do enough in the attacking third either. I lose trust after this because we were bad in Sevilla away game and we had chance to study them, and plan where they can be hurt, and had home advantage. When game started, apart from first 10 mins, it looked like the continuation of Sevilla away game, ineffective tactics and no motivation. We have not played in Quarters from long time, and this was our chance and yet we failed quite miserably. At a game which is arguably one of the most important game yet, when we needed desire, motivation and good tactics, we could not manage to do a single thing correctly. What was more hurting was our manager kept on watching the dross, and did not try to change anything. The problems were there for months, but the games like these are the ones people remember and take reference from, so this is our huge loss, and especially Jose's.

I'm not looking for excuses for Jose. For your first question, I can't really answer it. There are plethora of reasons why we did that and no one know for sure except a close inner circle. Mind you, Evra and Vidic struggled earlier on and i know SAF chose to benched them. However, Jose is different. There's an article lying around here that talks about Mourinho being an unconventional coach. I suggest you read that up. It will answer your questions/remarks.

I'm not defending the performance against Sevilla. It was horrible and everyone is at fault. However, going forward, I feel that Jose is the right man for us. I just don't agree with the amount of flak he is receiving now.

Showing sign of weakness to the media is a big no for me. We never know what was said behind closed doors. Earlier on, people were complaining Jose was throwing the players under the bus, now people are complaining he is shielding them?

 

[Listar]

Bypassing the midfield with long balls, hoping to win second balls from knockdowns of a big target man. Usually Lukaku, against Sevilla it was Lukaku AND Fellaini.

Pretty much how we always set up, at least against remotely decent teams.

That is one of his way to bypass the press. Not always. Against Liverpool and city he usually uses it. Against Sevilla it was just poor tactics overall. Fellaini in the middle being one of them.

 

[Rash Decision]

I'm a pretty new fan, only started watching and supporting during LVG's reign, so my views probably have to be contextualised as such.

I've honestly been underwhelmed by our team's performances ever since the first match of the season against West Ham. Watching that match live, my feeling was that we had been solid, clinical, and in control, but not very creative and largely reactive. The subsequent matches did nothing to help me shake the feeling that our 4-0 scorelines were more a product of poor opposition than our own brilliance. I couldn't convince myself that our opponents were poor because we made them so.

I think it's undeniable that Jose has made tangible progress with us, and to sack him after this season would be incredibly harsh. The problem as I see it is that he has done nothing to warrant being sacked, and yet I'm unable to see a desirable, or indeed a clear, direction he is taking us in. Barring a meltdown, he'll likely keep us reasonably competitive and at an acceptable standard in terms of silverware, but I'm not so sure the journey under him would be enjoyable or worth it in the end. I feel angry watching our attacking players, most of whom are extremely talented, look so clueless every match.

Having said that, I think the lack of a clear option to succeed him is a legitimate concern. There are probably many coaches out there who, given our players, could get equivalent results with a more pleasing brand of football. However, Jose brings a lot more to the club than just coaching. He gives us an arrogance and swagger off the pitch, perhaps most evidently in terms of player recruitment (Lukaku, Sanchez). The draw he still has for players is something that is not easily replaced. In the absence of other "proper football men" in the club's hierarchy, I'd presume he deals with many off-the-pitch issues that many other coaches would not have to. The step up to Man Utd is (I believe) more than simply being given more money to spend and dealing with higher expectations.

Ideally, Jose adapts his philosophy, but frankly I doubt he's capable of it. He didn't become the best in the world at his style of football without devoting years to perfecting it. I don't know if I agree with those saying he refuses to change - I think our current football suggests he has tried to do something different, whether in terms of style or in terms of how he motivates his players (perhaps he's wary of burning them out and turning them against him again?). Does the club force him to change, and then give him those years to develop a new approach?

Personally I'd take a punt on a more progressive coach, because at least the football would be more enjoyable, yes? But it's a huge risk (admittedly, no bigger than taking a punt on Moyes).

 

[DWelbz19]

Mourinho must be delighted that there are so many fans who are willing to continually shift the goalposts for him.

He himself talked about challenging for the title in his first season. That went tits up, we crashed to our worst league finish since Moyes, and he barely rescued CL qualification with a scrappy EL win against cannon-fodder, which was then promptly talked up as a big achievement by the same manager and fans who have ridiculed the competition in the past. Then we were told that he needed the first season for the rebuild, and that expectations should be much higher in his second season because that’s always when his teams truly come together. Well, again we haven’t been close to challenging for the league title, have crashed out of CL with a whimper against a second-rate team, and haven’t remotely looked like a team with the mentality and quality to be able to challenge for major honours or compete with the very biggest clubs. More often than not we look completely and utterly clueless, incapable of keeping the ball for any sustained period of time, and so sloppy and lethargic that you begin to question whether the players and the manager really give a shit. We’ve become a laughing stock around Europe for the quality of our football after all that money spent.

Now we’re being told that next season is when we should be expecting to see Mourinho’s vision (whatever that might be, it’s still not clear) somehow magically come to fruition. Somehow I find myself doubting that.

Good post. It’ll just continue to happen, too.

 

[NoLogo]

Mourinho must be delighted that there are so many fans who are willing to continually shift the goalposts for him.

He himself talked about challenging for the title in his first season. That went tits up, we crashed to our worst league finish since Moyes, and he barely rescued CL qualification with a scrappy EL win against cannon-fodder, which was then promptly talked up as a big achievement by the same manager and fans who have ridiculed the competition in the past. Then we were told that he needed the first season for the rebuild, and that expectations should be much higher in his second season because that’s always when his teams truly come together. Well, again we haven’t been close to challenging for the league title, have crashed out of CL with a whimper against a second-rate team, and haven’t remotely looked like a team with the mentality and quality to be able to challenge for major honours or compete with the very biggest clubs. More often than not we look completely and utterly clueless, incapable of keeping the ball for any sustained period of time, and so sloppy and lethargic that you begin to question whether the players and the manager really give a shit. We’ve become a laughing stock around Europe for the quality of our football after all that money spent.

Now we’re being told that next season is when we should be expecting to see Mourinho’s vision (whatever that might be, it’s still not clear) somehow magically come to fruition. Somehow I find myself doubting that.

The most worrying part is also that the second season almost always has been his best.

That being said I feel a second place in the league with the way City are playing isn't the worst, it's just annoying that our football sucks so much at times.

 

[togg]

Well, as we all say, football is all about emotions. It was totally normal to be disappointed, annoyed, pissed off. I'm a backer of Mourinho, but on Tuesday, because of the performance and nature of our elimination, I was thinking 'wonder if it would be better if he goes now rather than in a couple of years when he's bound to move on anyway'. But...a few days down the line and I'm back to supporting giving him another season. Football eh?

Now....if we go out to Brighton......