Voted the option C a long time and is still sticking to it. fecking David Moyes managed to put in a more credible and courageous CL performance than Jose. I doubt Woodward has the necessary courage to sack him but I'll be happy when he is sacked.
Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments | Poll Added
- Thread starter Suedesi
- Start date
- Status
I doubt there's a single solid reason as to why we should keep him. The best we can hope for under him is top4. Under alternatives like Tuchel and Jardim, atleast we can get that playing positive football.
To be fair, he did win the EL and LC, and we are still in the FA Cup this season.
If you are talking about the big prizes, then he deserves one more season to show that he can do it due to the credit he has in getting us to 2nd in the league and winning the above -- and especially if he wins the FA Cup this season. If he can't do it next season, I assume the board may see it your way.
Excellent post.
It's really remarkable how the whole perception of a manager and the season as a whole can be turned on one match. It's like Chelsea and Liverpool wins never happened. And suddenly the same manager who was praised for masterclasses in those matches is now the worst person in the world.
It's also very funny how the same fans who love to laugh at Liverpool for "playing positive" and losing, are now wishing United played more positive even if it meant "losing a little more". Like it or not, Mourihno's "cowardice" is the reason United was even in the CL and is in 2nd place in EPL.
And by the way, the set up against Sevilla was hardly a negative one. It wasn't all out attack, but it wasn't defensive either. It was a mediocre performance up until the first goal, and it was dreadful after that. Lukaku said it best:
Having said all of the above, I do agree that Mourihno is not the right fit for United. He's the type of manager who is at his best when he has the full support of his players and fans, and he doesn't have either at United.
It's also very funny how the same fans who love to laugh at Liverpool for "playing positive" and losing, are now wishing United played more positive even if it meant "losing a little more". Like it or not, Mourihno's "cowardice" is the reason United was even in the CL and is in 2nd place in EPL.
And by the way, the set up against Sevilla was hardly a negative one. It wasn't all out attack, but it wasn't defensive either. It was a mediocre performance up until the first goal, and it was dreadful after that. Lukaku said it best:
Having said all of the above, I do agree that Mourihno is not the right fit for United. He's the type of manager who is at his best when he has the full support of his players and fans, and he doesn't have either at United.
The defenders are not lumping it forward because they are panicking it's due to Mourinho's instructions. Remember under LvG all our defenders were forced to play out from the back, they were told to pass it to the midfielders and they did. We hoofed it forward under Moyes and are hoofing it now under Mourinho. It's due to the managers or the coach's instructions.
Replace defensive cowardice with gungho bravado and this statement will still works.
They key is winning or still losing
Am I wrong in saying he might as well give up right now?
Seriously, I see the poll results but how the hell does someone recover from the sheer amount negativity that we've seen over the last two days? There's a significant amount of people who genuinely hate Mourinho, and can't seem to stop making delusional and outright false claims just to relieve some of their anger.
I mean, the vast majority of people have been somewhat to very critical while at least remaining rational enough with their analysis and using valid arguments. If Mourinho would somehow start doing better at certain aspects, they would probably be happy and simply give him credit and that would be the end.
But with 10-30% the hatred is so deep and so irrational, like I said I just don't see anyone in any circumstances coming back from that type of surreal negativity... We will get another shite result before the season has ended and I genuinely fear things will explode at that time.
Seriously, I see the poll results but how the hell does someone recover from the sheer amount negativity that we've seen over the last two days? There's a significant amount of people who genuinely hate Mourinho, and can't seem to stop making delusional and outright false claims just to relieve some of their anger.
I mean, the vast majority of people have been somewhat to very critical while at least remaining rational enough with their analysis and using valid arguments. If Mourinho would somehow start doing better at certain aspects, they would probably be happy and simply give him credit and that would be the end.
But with 10-30% the hatred is so deep and so irrational, like I said I just don't see anyone in any circumstances coming back from that type of surreal negativity... We will get another shite result before the season has ended and I genuinely fear things will explode at that time.
It's not really due to one match is it? Only reason god-awful long ball percentage football(especially after spending truckloads of cash) will be stomached at a big club is if the result is positive.
Also why did Herrera get told off by the manager for making similar comments to the press after a loss(don't remember which match) whereas Lukaku is let off?
No one is having a blind "hatred" of the manager. Everyone will be happy to support the manager if he improves in certain aspects like you said, but there is no sign of improvement is there? Besides a leopard never changes its spots, does it? I think he will be given another year regardless of what is said in the media or fan pressure, but winning the title next season is definitely not in his hands especially if City carries on the way they are playing this season.
And I don't really understand why people are using this argument? Why? LVG didn't get enough money? He wasn't supported as much as Mourinho?
We spent a fortune with him also, he just bought rubbish.
You're not actually going to make me post the links to the examples now are you?
Really?
You remember we just won against Chelsea and Liverpool not to long ago right?
It seems to me that a fairly large part of the fans disliked or detested Mourinho from the very beginning, back since his days in Chelsea. For being the enemy in PL, for his type of football, for the oil money poured into Chelsea and possibly some additional sins. Loyalists of course backed him as new manager in United. But he started with a minimum of slack. Slow progress and/or poor play made him lost the little support he had.
I think it is difficult to analyze the situation with JM and United. United was, and still is, in a much worse shape than most supporters believe. Players are seen as potentially high performers merely because they are part of the squad in United, albeit perhaps 40 % of them are better suited for a mid table team. There are no structures and procedures in the club, everything was tied Ferguson as a person, and chaos followed when he left. There is simply nothing left, apart from memories of a great past. A big difference compared to continental clubs like Bayern M., Juve or Barcelona.
There doesn't seem to be a plan for solving that "structural deficit" in the club. Managers are hired and fired in the waiting for success following big spending. I doubt that will come. Perhaps JM should be made director of fotball instead of manager? But I also find it difficult to understand JM in the present. No, he wasn't as cautious as he is now when he was Chelsea manager. In Porto, Chelsea and Inter he created a strong defense, a well balanced midfield and sharp counter attack. He has moved some way toward that, but the progress have been rather modest since he arrived. The recruitments (his decisions?) are not what you would expect from JM looking back. "Big names" but very unclear what they should contribute with in the building of a new United. The team play football in a halfbaked way. It is not old style Mourinho-football, rather some kind of neurotic and overly cautios caricature of that. He doesn't seem to trust his players and overbalance the team defensively. But he doesn't recruit better defenders or midfielders to make the team balanced.
Most supporters would probably cheer if he was fired today, or after the season, or anytime. But I fear that they will be equally disappointed by his successor. Perhaps it will feel better to be relieved from someone as disliked as JM was in the first place? The pains to come are perhaps easier to live through under manager X?
I think it is difficult to analyze the situation with JM and United. United was, and still is, in a much worse shape than most supporters believe. Players are seen as potentially high performers merely because they are part of the squad in United, albeit perhaps 40 % of them are better suited for a mid table team. There are no structures and procedures in the club, everything was tied Ferguson as a person, and chaos followed when he left. There is simply nothing left, apart from memories of a great past. A big difference compared to continental clubs like Bayern M., Juve or Barcelona.
There doesn't seem to be a plan for solving that "structural deficit" in the club. Managers are hired and fired in the waiting for success following big spending. I doubt that will come. Perhaps JM should be made director of fotball instead of manager? But I also find it difficult to understand JM in the present. No, he wasn't as cautious as he is now when he was Chelsea manager. In Porto, Chelsea and Inter he created a strong defense, a well balanced midfield and sharp counter attack. He has moved some way toward that, but the progress have been rather modest since he arrived. The recruitments (his decisions?) are not what you would expect from JM looking back. "Big names" but very unclear what they should contribute with in the building of a new United. The team play football in a halfbaked way. It is not old style Mourinho-football, rather some kind of neurotic and overly cautios caricature of that. He doesn't seem to trust his players and overbalance the team defensively. But he doesn't recruit better defenders or midfielders to make the team balanced.
Most supporters would probably cheer if he was fired today, or after the season, or anytime. But I fear that they will be equally disappointed by his successor. Perhaps it will feel better to be relieved from someone as disliked as JM was in the first place? The pains to come are perhaps easier to live through under manager X?
People act as if the wins against Liverpool and Chelsea were all time great performances. They weren’t. We should be beating those teams with any manager considering our squad compared to theirs.
His team selection was odd, but he was clearly wary of the away goal which is why he started with such a robust midfield and a defensive mentality. In retrospect we should have been sent out to kill them off from the get go. Anyone saying we are not good enough to be beating Sevilla at home is wrong. There is no way we should be losing that match with the players we have got.
You could argue we had an element of control, albeit one playing insipid football unbefitting of a second leg champions league knockout game at old Trafford, until Fellaini went off. Once Pogba came on we left holes all over the place. I'm not sure I blame Pogba for that to be honest. It's more to do with our inability to switch fluidly between polar opposite strategies. I put that down to poor planning from the manager more than anything else.
I like Jose, he is a big manager, but it's clear he is still unable to accept risk in pursuit of the attacking football our players, on paper at least, seem capable of bringing.
I'm worried that he will spend big again in summer on players he thinks he needs but he can't use. I see him trying to buy names in fitting with the clubs profile and attacking legacy but having no idea how to implement a system to use them.
You could argue we had an element of control, albeit one playing insipid football unbefitting of a second leg champions league knockout game at old Trafford, until Fellaini went off. Once Pogba came on we left holes all over the place. I'm not sure I blame Pogba for that to be honest. It's more to do with our inability to switch fluidly between polar opposite strategies. I put that down to poor planning from the manager more than anything else.
I like Jose, he is a big manager, but it's clear he is still unable to accept risk in pursuit of the attacking football our players, on paper at least, seem capable of bringing.
I'm worried that he will spend big again in summer on players he thinks he needs but he can't use. I see him trying to buy names in fitting with the clubs profile and attacking legacy but having no idea how to implement a system to use them.
Getting better under JM is more like wishful thinking, almost 2 years and we still lack an identity. He doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes and he's unwilling to adapt. There's no point in keeping him even if we finish 2nd & win the FA Cup.
I remember under Fergie we used to pray we played every CL knockout game away first. Manage a draw or even a single goal defeat,looking very average/shit at times. You just knew we were going to qualify as long as the last game was at OT, we come out looking like an entirely different team putting in some memorable fantastic performances most notably against Roma, a team much better than this Sevila team. Seeing people compare this current rubbish to Fergie pisses me off to no end
Probably the same set of fans that wanted moyes instead of mourinho.
If tthis is moyes winning the 2 cups and 2nd in the league people will say he's saf reincarnated.
He has to carry the can for that also. The 1st leg was almost as bad, and, it was heralded by some as a good result. It was shite. The lack of an urgency to find an away goal put us out. It increased the pressure 10 fold, against a team that shouldn't have caused us too many issues.
He has to go for me, he is serving up utter shite, and, it's not that much better (if at all) to LvG. The atmosphere was turning a bit on Tuesday, and if he is stubborn enough to keep playing the same boring football then he needs to be fecked off pronto.
I think he has done an average job, stumbled through the Europa League, some improvement in the league this year, but looking at City who really cares.
He's comments were the icing on the cake for me, and I wish someone in that room had the bollocks to reply to his 'this is normal' shite, with, 'they did get to 3 finals in 4 years prick'.
I can't believe anyone wants him to stay, his football, his attitude are beyond painful.
As long as Ed doesn't judge Mourinho based on what caf says and what social media says and instead judges by how he is doing against targets set, it should be fine. Mourinho is not the kind who will give up. Yes, those who hate him will always be waiting for that one bad match but it is up to Mourinho to make sure such matches are few and far between and improving on attacking play in process. Many who don't hate him but are going for 'Mourinho out' right now because of Sevilla result and with the feel that attacking play will never improve, will not mind changing their opinions if things change for better as it will be ultimately for benefit of club. Or so I hope. You never know with people though.
Why is everyone so surprised by this defeat? Last year, the 12th place of La Liga almost got United out of Europe League (Guidetti, hope you're well). This defeat is 100% on Mourinho. The team didn't have a clear chance against a team that this season got 5 goals from Betis, Atletico and Eibar. I am a big fan of "pragmatic" approach, but you can't play like a feckin coward, at home, against a team like Sevilla.
If PSG came sniffing around I wouldn't be too sad to see him go.
That's not going to happen. The critiscism for that deafeat is fair game - but it is ridiculous to say he should be sacked, and to expect him to be sacked is even more crazy.
There's a very good chance they'll finish 2nd in the league and they also have a good shot at winning the FA Cup - that's not going to get you sacked at United.
He doesn't deserve to be sacked if we finish 2nd with or even without the FA Cup as someone said earlier. But scrutiny will be higher next season.
Fans haven't turned on him. The booing and gloomy atmosphere was limited as a response to the CL tie and the way we approached it, which was disastrous by any measure.
I get what he said finally. The moron actually meant to say that United have lost in the Ro16 before and he himself had seen us crash out, so his exit cannot be magnified beyond what it is -- a sometimes normal occurence. But the way he said it came off as though he was almost trolling us.
On the point of 'being coward', I think it was more a case of very very bad performance and execution. Some may say that then it is worse particularly vs an average team like Sevilla. Mourinho said after Liverpool that it was not our intention to play so deep in our half in 2nd half but Liverpool were good which pushed team back. Against Sevilla, it looked more a case of players not being able to execute the plan at all which should absolutely not be happening in an important game against a not so great team. It is not as if we were defending deep, we were just bad in approach. Liverpool at least have much better players compared to Sevilla. I however don't think the plan was to just sit back and nick a goal somewhere. Our execution was awful though and that is also something which is on Mourinho to rectify. It is just that I don't agree with this narrative that Mourinho pushes coward mentality.
In short, lots of work on players mentality, execution of plan properly, bringing more cohesion in attacking play, is needed. For sure the toughest job Mourinho has had and it will be very satisfying for someone of his ego to come good at end of it. That's why I am not in 'Mourinho out' brigade (apart from my liking of him). He will desperately be wanting to do better. If he is still not able to do it after next season too, parting ways won't be tough.
Last edited:
That should have been obvious immediately and I am sorry but it is bit thick if people think he was trolling United and protecting himself with that comment.
This, Jesus. Everyone who has been following Mourinho for a while knows that he has a certain way with words.
2nd to one of our biggest rivals who won the league at Christmas, it's hardly a positive. At the start of the season, many Utd fans were expceting a title push, and, it hasn't happened. He has underachieved thus far, playing shite football that at the moment is comparable with the dross LvG served up.
Sorry that's bull. He could have quite easily said that we haven't even been in the CL regualry recently, so tonight is part of a new learning curve etc. To harp back to a time when we were regualry winning things and getting to CL finals, just shows him up to be a mug that's trying to protect his record and distract the attention away from what were some of the worst tactical / team selections since Moyes.
Some of us can see through that though.
The guy is a fraud, taking us for millions and spending small fortunes.. Games like Tuesday are where elite level coaches earn their coin and he failed miserably.
Like I said in another thread just now, City are having an exceptional season.
And we aren't.
League Cup out to Bristol
CL out to Seville
PL - a distant 2nd
FA Cup - we shall see
All this after spending small fortune.
In reality we are closer to where City were last year. This has been evident for a while now. It does make sense when you consider where the teams were when both Pep and Mourinho arrived.
Nobody is 'defending' those comments. He said that result is disappointing but not something which never happened before. Which is stating a fact.
Plenty of posters have been on fence in here, supported Jose regardless or not bothered to criticise because it just gets dismissed as negativity.
The Caf has turned in to an echo chamber with the same few posters, who seem unwilling to accept criticism, copying one anothers arguments and patting each other on the back in the various threads that attempt to discuss the issues. Step away from the Caf thought police and talk to fans, look at social media, sports media or listen to all the different United podcasts out there and you'll see fans have been concerned for a while about the management and results that have glossed over performances. If people are going to keep dismissing all that then yeah, the poll results will be a shock.
I can't agree with this either because there are many like me, who are in option B who just don't want to commit to the idea of sacking him for all sorts of reasons (upheaval, suitable replacements etc), or just haven't bothered to change their vote.
The poll choices need revising more than anything, but 'He's not the right fit' and 'get someone else who can get more out of our squad' shouldn't be a controversial opinion nor should you be surprised that 30% of posters think we've 'Made improvements but we've stagnated'. Dismissing those areas of the voting as just 'hatred' is irrational.
Hadn't we just won the FA Cup, finishing 5th on GD to City? Both squads needed major surgery, down to age or quality, both club spent fortunes, both clubs had new managers.
We were hardly miles apart,
Ridiculous post match comments and moronic to say the least. Immediately I saw Fellaini in the line up I knew it was going to be a long night controlling the midfield tempo. There was absolutely no need for him.
Mourinho will always be a safety first manager instead of one who takes the shackles off the players to express themselves to their potentials. This to me is his biggest issue.
Doesn't matter what world class attackers he has at his disposal, his go-to formula in the big games will always be to avoid defeat.
I am not a fan of Pep but that to me is the difference between the two. One wants you to adjust against your style to his attacking ideology because you know what is coming and the other is just interested in curbing your threats.This has never and will never be the template for which a team of our resources and reputation should utilize. It could be employed once in a while maybe against very top quality opposition but never against a 2nd leg UCL home game against Sevilla.
I am fed up with him and I wouldn't bat an eyelid should I wake up to news any day that he is gone. I am afraid he is taking us nowhere.
Mourinho will always be a safety first manager instead of one who takes the shackles off the players to express themselves to their potentials. This to me is his biggest issue.
Doesn't matter what world class attackers he has at his disposal, his go-to formula in the big games will always be to avoid defeat.
I am not a fan of Pep but that to me is the difference between the two. One wants you to adjust against your style to his attacking ideology because you know what is coming and the other is just interested in curbing your threats.This has never and will never be the template for which a team of our resources and reputation should utilize. It could be employed once in a while maybe against very top quality opposition but never against a 2nd leg UCL home game against Sevilla.
I am fed up with him and I wouldn't bat an eyelid should I wake up to news any day that he is gone. I am afraid he is taking us nowhere.
Roy reckons we still need another 3 or 4 players and that Pogba isnt the only problem.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/201...not-enjoying-the-pressure-or-the-expectation/
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/201...not-enjoying-the-pressure-or-the-expectation/
Not sure this warrants a separate thread, but there's an article from the Times where Mourinho told the players to blame him.
The /r/reddevils subreddit has the full article.
The /r/reddevils subreddit has the full article.
- Status