José Mourinho | 2018/19 Performances

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JPRouve said:
Again that's nonsense, if you take the best possession teams the midfielders take the ball fairly deep, players like Pirlo, Xabi Alonso, Busquets or even Schweinsteiger would routinely take the ball inches from the CBs feets. We don't control midfield because first we do not have a midfield general, we have two all action players and a water carrier but after 2 seasons I also suspect that the positional and tactical trainings are shameful.
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One midfielder comes deep but then the two centre halves spread and push out allowing the full backs to go further up. Our defenders aren't comfortable with this and the moment there is any press they retreat and don't have the distribution to match it.

I have been sitting in my seat for 20 years at the side of the pitch and it is a marked difference how further back our defence is these days and then the midfield come deeper as a result. Simple as that.
 
el3mel said:
Mourinho needs to go by the end of the season, I'm not absolving him of blame. My point is :

A) Mourinho going only won't make us title contenders. Ed already fecked up 2 managerial appointments. No reason to think he will get a third one right. The club as an organization is a mess that lacks vision and needs reconstruction. We need to have a certain plan and strategy in the market regardless of how is managing the club. All big clubs chop and change managers all the time but their philosophy and strategy never changes.

B)The transfers some are happy we vetoed under Mourinho because of the heavy price tag, sooner or later we will have to pay and will pay alot to strengthen in the same position. We're delaying the inevitable and I'm ready to bet on it. If we are actually a well constucted club that analyzes team states away from the manager, we wouldn't have been in such position.
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To your first point
I know Mourinho going won't make us contenders. A new manager isn't going to magically turn Lindelof or Lingard into great players. You can't blame a manager for one or two players underperforming. But when underperformance becomes a theme across an entire squad, then you can start asking questions. That's why I mention the fact that we are consistently outplayed by significantly worse teams.
On your second point, this is why I advacte for a DoF. Whether we like it or not, overall responsibility for the quality of a squad should not be dependent on a manager who can be here today, gone tomorrow. I know people are uncomfortable with this arrangement but it is just the way it is.
The club did not back Mourinho simply because they thought the players he wanted were not good enough and they were not sure he could get them to perform better than the signings he's already made.
This is an unacceptable situation that should have never been able to happen. It shows to me a clear sign that the club have doubts about the manager. However, from the club's point of view, it's not an unreasonable position to take. A manager asks for £35m to buy a CB in the first summer, doesn't perform. The manager then asks for another £35m, the player doesn't perform again. Then the third time, the manager asks for £60m to sign another player in the same position. No self respecting CEO gives that money without first asking questions.
However, this should never have been allowed to happen because there should have been a link between Mourinho and the board from the first day Mourinho set foot in this club.
 
Foxbatt said:
The Board has done what it has been asked. They provided the money to a very successful Manager. No one would say that Jose was not a successful Manager and it was a good appointment at that time as Pep was not available. Jose was the only one available who has won the CL twice and the PL a few times and the La Liga and the Serie A too.
The Board can go by a person's CV. Jose had all those. How on Earth can they be blamed for the non performance of players like Lukaku, Sanchez etc? Even LVG was the right appointment at that time after the disaster of Moyes. Ed was correct in not buying Toby. Because the two CBs have already been bought by Jose and that is his sole responsibility. If he thought Lindelof and Bailly was not good enough he should not have bought them in the first place.
He sold Blind too and kept faith with Valencia. He bought Lukaku who is not a player who is world class and be the main striker for a top club. To make matters worse we seem always disjointed and have no tactics in ball play or movement off the ball and neither on the ball. It is a hopeful punt most of the times and the players on their own have to improvise. The Board has supported him all the way.
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Exactly - Woodward acted the right way at the right time. LVG after Moyes - after LVG it should have been a more technical heavy manager if available, hell in my eyes we needed a home grown ex United player manager but the fans would not be happy post LVG to go for that as well have that at a time where our rivals got Pep & Klopp.

As much as I hated it - I saw that he wanted Jose to sneak a title win to stall them whilst they are at the start & hopefully adapt to the United way. Jose unfortunately doesn't have the ability to adapt and has a strict type of player, a strict type of formation & a strict type of football management - something clearly that is not the way of United.

Woodward realised that Klopp & Pep had overtaken Jose whilst he had the chance to be the one on top.

Zidane is the next manager to take over that has an element of recent success to be a competitor to Klopp or Pep. If that conversation hasn't happened yet - I'd like us to go for an ex player manager at a time where our football could EASILY be better.
 
It is not just the midfield the whole team has to have the right movements or else it is pointless. I saw Lindelof pointing many times yesterday when there is no right movement in front of him. Lukaku stands there like a pill box. Valencia stops as soon as he get the ball and a defender in front of him. Our midfield and the forwards need to get the off the ball movement right for the defenders to play any constructive pass.
 
CA1 said:
One midfielder comes deep but then the two centre halves spread and push out allowing the full backs to go further up. Our defenders aren't comfortable with this and the moment there is any press they retreat and don't have the distribution to match it.

I have been sitting in my seat for 20 years at the side of the pitch and it is a marked difference how further back our defence is these days and then the midfield come deeper as a result. Simple as that.
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You could be sitting in your seat for an other 120 years, it would still be nonsense. Mourinho uses a low block and has always done it, we also did it with SAF between 2006 and 2012 against top teams, it's a tactical setup supposed to eliminate most through balls and force the opposition to create in front of you, it's the same logic that Atletico follows or Juventus against top teams. Atletico for example do not have better ball playing defenders, Godin and Savic are average in that department but it's true that defensively they are excellent.

Under Mourinho we haven't been a high block-possession team, the midfield issues are due to the midfield organization and composition and nothing else. They are poor at cutting passing angles, poor at covering each others, poor at marking, poor at reliably create space or create passing angles and they are fairly lazy too. The only thing that they have is that individually they have little limitations and can on occasion make the difference but as a unit they are just bad.
 
Aloysius, is Zidane a good enough manager? I do not know much about his managerial capabilities. As Harry Redknapp used to say Sandra could have won the CL with that Real Madrid side.
 
Foxbatt said:
Aloysius, is Zidane a good enough manager? I do not know much about his managerial capabilities. As Harry Redknapp used to say Sandra could have won the CL with that Real Madrid side.
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Yeah but that's what Harry Redknapp said...
 
Back to the issue of midfield. Not a single Liverpool midfielder would get a game for us, yet they still have a better midfield.
 
Makes you wonder that if Jose is finally given the boot what happens to Carrick and more so McKenna,the later being highly regarded at the club and in British footballing circles.
Very unlikely that McKenna would accept a lower coaching position and its also likely he wouldn't be involved in the new managers coaching staff .
Hopefully the club give assurances over his position if/when Jose does leave.

Would be typical of the club to mess this potential situation up.Like they do with practically everything.
 
el3mel said:
He actually inherited far worse version of this midfield when he was appointed.

Also don't understand this point. No one is complaining about our investment in midfield as far as I'm concerned. The midfield also looked pretty good in almost every game this season. It's the defense and attackers that are failing us.

Ok, he signed Lindelof and Bailly, then what ? Should we wait for a new manager to sell the deadwood of the previous manager just like what we did with LVG and costed us a lot ? Are we working on any basis in markt except manager living and dying by his transfers ? Almost all other top clubs are working with certain strategy regardless of th manager. City threw away several flops signed by Pep with no problem. Hell even the 60m Mahrez is starting to be thrown on th bench.

Lindelof should have been sold in summer and replaced by a CB, and we should have targeted any winger, any winger with one leg would have been better than Lingard and Mata on the right.

What we did is just delaying the inevitable more spending. What now ? Will the next manager turn Lindelof to David Luiz and Jones to Vidic ? There's a very big percentage chance Lindelof will be thrown away by the next manager and we'll be forced to pay +70m for a new CB sooner rather than later. We're delaying the inevitable, just that the next manager takes the full responsibility for his signings like LVG and Mourinho did.

Overall a terrible strategy and optimizes everything wrong about the club. Panic appointments in managerial positions and zero plan in market.

I pray for the day the club enters the market having a certain strategy regarding transfers regardless of who is managing the team.
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LOL. A good midfield is the basis for a good attack or midfield and our midfield has been poor since last January.

Our attack is slow and lethargic because our midfield is sitting too deep and cannot move the ball quickly without resorting to hail-mary long balls. Our defence is poor because the midifield doesn't press high up the pitch and are falling back to park the bus to defend counter attacks.
 
Adisa said:
Back to the issue of midfield. Not a single Liverpool midfielder would get a game for us, yet they still have a better midfield.
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Keita would be a good addition IMO but Henderson, Milner, Wijnaldum would be wank for us. I cannot believe how Klopp has coached this collection of plodders into something so good.
 
JPRouve said:
You could be sitting in your seat for an other 120 years, it would still be nonsense. Mourinho uses a low block and has always done it, we also did it with SAF between 2006 and 2012 against top teams, it's a tactical setup supposed to eliminate most through balls and force the opposition to create in front of you, it's the same logic that Atletico follows or Juventus against top teams. Atletico for example do not have better ball playing defenders, Godin and Savic are average in that department but it's true that defensively they are excellent.

Under Mourinho we haven't been a high block-possession team, the midfield issues are due to the midfield organization and composition and nothing else. They are poor at cutting passing angles, poor at covering each others, poor at marking, poor at reliably create space or create passing angles and they are fairly lazy too. The only thing that they have is that individually they have little limitations and can on occasion make the difference but as a unit they are just bad.
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Exactly, nothing in our team is done as a collective, it's all individuals doing their own thing. The only time when we look like a team is when we are sitting deep and parking the bus.
 
redIndianDevil said:
Keita would be a good addition IMO but Henderson, Milner, Wijnaldum would be wank for us. I cannot believe how Klopp has coached this collection of plodders into something so good.
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Like any proactive manager does it. You drill a system into them so they don't have to 'think' too much. Quality of the player can always let you down (you can't have all the best players) but you'll usually see some consistency when this is done right.
 
BrianMcClair'sBarnet said:
Makes you wonder that if Jose is finally given the boot what happens to Carrick and more so McKenna,the later being highly regarded at the club and in British footballing circles.
Very unlikely that McKenna would accept a lower coaching position and its also likely he wouldn't be involved in the new managers coaching staff .
Hopefully the club give assurances over his position if/when Jose does leave.

Would be typical of the club to mess this potential situation up.Like they do with practically everything.
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Theoretically maybe a 'retain current coaches' clause.
 
JPRouve said:
You could be sitting in your seat for an other 120 years, it would still be nonsense. Mourinho uses a low block and has always done it, we also did it with SAF between 2006 and 2012 against top teams, it's a tactical setup supposed to eliminate most through balls and force the opposition to create in front of you, it's the same logic that Atletico follows or Juventus against top teams. Atletico for example do not have better ball playing defenders, Godin and Savic are average in that department but it's true that defensively they are excellent.

Under Mourinho we haven't been a high block-possession team, the midfield issues are due to the midfield organization and composition and nothing else. They are poor at cutting passing angles, poor at covering each others, poor at marking, poor at reliably create space or create passing angles and they are fairly lazy too. The only thing that they have is that individually they have little limitations and can on occasion make the difference but as a unit they are just bad.
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I can only assume you've never actually played the game.

This isn't FIFA.

The ball isn't going to magically come to the midfield, they have to go an get the ball from our defenders.
 
CA1 said:
I can only assume you've never actually played the game.

This isn't FIFA.

The ball isn't going to magically come to the midfield, they have to go an get the ball from our defenders.
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Are you a former pro? tell us more.
 
Minimalist said:
Are you a former pro? tell us more.
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His analysis is enough to tell me he's never played the game at a decent level. I can tell he's played a lot of FIFA and a lot of Championship Manager etc but no real practical football knowledge.
 
CA1 said:
His analysis is enough to tell me he's never played the game at a decent level. I can tell he's played a lot of FIFA and a lot of Championship Manager etc but no real practical football knowledge.
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And you have obviously? What level do you need play the game at?
 
CA1 said:
I can only assume you've never actually played the game.

This isn't FIFA.

The ball isn't going to magically come to the midfield, they have to go an get the ball from our defenders.
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You are not trying to claim that SAF and Mourinho purchased CBs that weren't fit to play football as CBs? Who are you, Arrigo Sacchi?
 
kouroux said:
He would be mad to do so, specially since he recently extended his contract. The way we've been handling them contracts (6 years to Moyes, extending Mourinho's and Sanchez....) has been crazy :lol:
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His extension was a year i think so not so bad. Think we'd come to a settlement quickly when Ed decides to look for the next manager. Agree with the fact we've been quite poor in handling out contracts to ones that dont deserve and on the other side players such as DDG , Martial are on their last years of contracts. We need a DOF to handle football matters.
 
ash_86 said:
His extension was a year i think so not so bad. Think we'd come to a settlement quickly when Ed decides to look for the next manager. Agree with the fact we've been quite poor in handling out contracts to ones that dont deserve and on the other side players such as DDG , Martial are on their last years of contracts. We need a DOF to handle football matters.
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He's on a £15m a year contract and has nearly 3 years left. Sacking him would cost this club a fortune. He hi self said so, two weeks ago.
 
Adisa said:
He's on a £15m a year contract and has nearly 3 years left. Sacking him would cost this club a fortune. He hi self said so, two weeks ago.
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Think it's even more. 15mil was his old contract which we bumped up last January. Suspect the huge payoff is the first reason we won't consider sacking him rather than the board particularly having any faith in him.
That contract extension was just :wenger:
 
You could tell that he was off when he started wearing suits & dressing smart again instead of his tracksuits- got to get ready for those upcoming Job interviews don't we Jose!
 
I could tolerate his style (or lack of) as long as the results came in. It's been evident for a while however that the results aren't coming in consistently and that doesn't seem like it's going to change anytime soon. He has to go imo.
 
Clearly lost the dressing room, never understand how/why players dont give their all when playing football - regardless of who the manager is.

Unfortunately, the players have made their feelings known and results will only improve when he's gone.
 
Biggest thing that annoyed me today was we could see after half time we were doing shit. It happened for nearly 15 minutes before they equalised. Not once did he try change anything obviously (or if he made a subtle change it didnt work and its not good enough).

Just needed something. But instead he waited until they equalised then reacted.
 
I know he didn't prefer to remember Pellegrini's name correctly back in the day but shades of him playing a surprisingly good eleven in the League Cup, yet still going out to a shit opposition at home (even though that was a straightforward loss).
 
Sylar said:
Biggest thing that annoyed me today was we could see after half time we were doing shit. It happened for nearly 15 minutes before they equalised. Not once did he try change anything obviously (or if he made a subtle change it didnt work and its not good enough).

Just needed something. But instead he waited until they equalised then reacted.
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We have been dogshite in the second half of every game this season, literally every game bar Young Boys even when we won. Don't know what the hell he's telling the players in the break for that to occur every game.
 
Why does it feel like we haven't seen our strongest XI play together for more than 2 games in a row for the entire time Mourinho's been manager? It's not really a point relevant to tonight's result it's just in general.
 
Can anyone please tell me this:
If every bad result is players fault then why our club is paying the manager 15 millions + every year. So if the manager is never responsible for on pitch performance then why hire one?
 
It's hilarious when I think a player who played under him, learnt from him and was successful under him, coming at home ground of his mentor and beating him in front of his own club fans with a championship side.

Jose, needs a serious introspection, his reputation will take a serious hit with this and will never recover in his career having to manage a top tier club in the future if he still doesn't mend his ways.

Imagine the Grin Lvg would have on his face after seeing all of this.
 
He's becoming a cancer at this club. The players can say all the positive things they want to say in public, but I think any professionals would have an issue with a coach who always blames his players, but never himself. Anything even remotely critical is rebutted by his past victories and United's lack of them in the recent past. When he says that as soon as he saw Jones and Bailly were up next for the penalty, that they would be in trouble...I mean, obviously every one thought that, but he is their coach, the guy who is supposed to back them and lift them up, he's the last person who should be saying that. He is not someone who is going to uplift t his team, and they are not the mentally strong types that United have had in the past. A different voice is needed, and a much different approach. I can't see how anyone would enjoy being in this environment, with such negative tactics, and the fact that it's been three years leaves him with no credit to fall back on.

Time's up.
 
Gotta admit he stayed true to his word, he is changing his style indeed…

…last night he threw 2 players under the bus, Bailly and Jones.
 
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