We're talking about their careers as paid professionals. Doesn't recompense come into most discussions when evaluating employment dynamics of a given workforce? For some reason it's become vogue to suggest footballers salaries are irrelevant.
Jordan Henderson : voices player welfare fears | Rice: Obscene schedule of games
- Thread starter YzWayne
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If the schedules keep as they are player wages need to drop or clubs need to use more of their income to build bigger squads to rotate.
It is the only outcome to keep up the number of games demanded.
People can have mental health problems in every single career path. Those working in a hospital have it worse than any football for PTSD etc.
I would argue musicians have more pressure than footballers for example as that is more intense for sure mentally rather than physically. They don’t get barely any help.
Both do their job because they love it but top level football pays far easier money and is far less cutthroat as they have guaranteed contracts they can be injured for. A touring band is brutal if they skip a show out of illness etc. Usually means zero pay or worse.
It is the only outcome to keep up the number of games demanded.
People can have mental health problems in every single career path. Those working in a hospital have it worse than any football for PTSD etc.
I would argue musicians have more pressure than footballers for example as that is more intense for sure mentally rather than physically. They don’t get barely any help.
Both do their job because they love it but top level football pays far easier money and is far less cutthroat as they have guaranteed contracts they can be injured for. A touring band is brutal if they skip a show out of illness etc. Usually means zero pay or worse.
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I mean, they retire from football but that doesn't mean that the majority of footballers can retire from life. There will be a minority of footballers, even in the PL that are able to retire from life at the age they retire from football. Most will need to follow their career in football with a career in something else.
They have other commitments to adhere to aside from training too. It's packed. They have to train, travel, do media, sponsorship deals, matches etc.
Then you have the obviousness of injuries due to tight schedules too.
There are many things.
I disagree. It's about every reason when it comes to welfare, as it should with professions outside of football, no matter how much money is involved in the profession.
Of course there are many things. Life is full of things. I just don't quite think that the issue of work/life balance for elite sports stars is something that needs addressing, particularly when the average amount of games played is something like 1.5 a week. I don't see how their welfare is in jeopardy.
Has that been confirmed? I thought it was still being discussed.
That's fair. I disagree as work/life balance is something which relates to mental health and it's important that mental health is managed as much as physical health.
Also, the timing of this is off. The energy crisis is ramping up, bills are about to go up again, people are literally choosing between heat and food and wages aren't keeping up with inflation. People are terrified about not being able to keep up with their mortgage payments. Maybe there is a conversation to be had about the strife footballers are put through, but I feel like it's not now.
I work and study in the field of mental health so work/life balance is not something I'm unaware of. I'm just not quite seeing a significant issue here.
Have Tour de France athletes ever complained about their schedules?
Don't get me started on the MLB schedule.
Don't get me started on the MLB schedule.
I think the main issue of a tight schedule is injury and long term health risk (physically) but I think that there are minor issues such as this that can also benefit from a reduced schedule, or at least by not expanding the schedule further which some governing bodies wish to do.
Also, in regards to 'retiring early', I doubt people want to retire early if it means their body is a shell of what it should be at the respective age they retire, with multiple problems and issues.
“As flies to wanton boys we are for the gods, they kill us for their sport..” - Eric Cantona
Why does he have to play 36 PL games and 10 Europa games? Or 3 England friendlies? Why can't he tell his managers he needs to be rotated a bit. 68 games could have easily been 50 something. Teams are supposed to rotate. That seems to be a bigger issue than the schedule. Although WC the year after Euro is also a genius move tbf.
Because if you win the EL you get into the CL/win a trophy.
Because if you finish higher in the PL you get more money/chance of europe etc.
Because they've made the international friendlies have meaning and they're now a trophy to win with added bonuses.
Because if you win the FA cup you get into Europe.
Players want to play in Europe, they want to play in finals, they want to win competitions.
Clubs want to win trophies, earn more money and have better players. You do that by playing your best players, or at least as a manager you'd assume so.
It's a vicious cycle.
Football is a game where you can get injured yes. Injuries increase with workload yes but that is the whole point of having a squad.
Playing 70 games a year is too much so……… don’t play 70 games. It’s quite simple.
Your manager should be managing your well being as a player if they are not doing that then you should speak to them about it.
I think we are still set in the 70s and 80s mindset where the same 11 (or 14 or whatever) plays every game.
Teams have squads for a reason. I don't think the schedule is inhumane or even wrong. Players can sit out if they don't feel 100%. It's on them and the medical staff/physios to determine. Really a non-issue.
Main point is; like in every profession you have highest level. On that level it is not easy to be, some things are unfair and standards are high as it gets but rewards are the best. Playing for NT, playing CL, winning trophies and earning millions.
Lets not forget two things.
1) We are talking here about less than 5% of players (even if that much). Wanna bet that other 95% of players, who play in weaker leagues and for weaker clubs, would swap places with them that second?
2) They can always say no to transfer in top club and play more casual football for middle table clubs.
So, you can "hate" me as you wish but i really don't give a feck for those 5 % who are living a dream and have decency to cry. fecking ungrateful spoiled brats. Play football, shut the feck up or feck off.
Lets not forget two things.
1) We are talking here about less than 5% of players (even if that much). Wanna bet that other 95% of players, who play in weaker leagues and for weaker clubs, would swap places with them that second?
2) They can always say no to transfer in top club and play more casual football for middle table clubs.
So, you can "hate" me as you wish but i really don't give a feck for those 5 % who are living a dream and have decency to cry. fecking ungrateful spoiled brats. Play football, shut the feck up or feck off.
Championship, League 1 and League 2 clubs play 46 games a season, plus they play League Cup, FA Cup so if you go far in those cups you can play c. 60 games too as they start the competion early. League 1 and 2 clubs also have to play in the EFL Trophy. Lots of games isn't something exclusive to the top league.
At this level it's even worse as you don't have the mammoth wage.
Yes, it’s a vicious cycle but it could fairly easily be broken if desired.
The FA/UEFA/FIFA would need to take a controlling/regulating role that is more than just “how do we increase profit”. Possibly, as somebody already suggested above, by restricting the amount of minutes a player is allowed to play per season.
And clubs would need to rest their players the same way any business should care about its assets via periodic maintenance.
The problem only exists due to greed and pressure (also driven by greed). The responsible organisations are failing to regulate competition in ways and for reasons many nation states are failing their populations.
I know several players who were inthe lower leagues and the top levels of non league and it’s definitely not a glamorous or particularly well paid career.
The principles are the same though. non league teams have squads that can be relied on if people are burning out.
Even in my career (played at level 7 and below) there were games I missed because I was generally knackered and the boss felt I needed a rest. In non league if there was a bad winter and frozen/waterlogged pitches we often finished the season playing 3 games a week just to fit it all in in time.
20+ players will still have to train and travel regardless of whether they're in the actual 11 for the match. All that takes a toll even when not featuring in a particular match 11
To be honest I'm not quite sure of i agree with the sentiment or not, they get paid a lot and teams that do have to bear the extra load of playing in Europe usually have the bench to compensate for it so I don't see what the deal is.
It's not like they play more games than say 30 or 40 years ago either where there was more league games to play through.
But overall things like UEFA nations league should probably get scrapped.
It's not like they play more games than say 30 or 40 years ago either where there was more league games to play through.
But overall things like UEFA nations league should probably get scrapped.
Tend to agree with some in here. Its a struggle if you want to play strongest line up every week, but 50 matches or so per calendar year plus training - which usually isn't all day- combined with world class nutrionists, medics, physios and sports scientists surely isn't a 'welfare concern'.
Maybe there's a discussion around fatigue and performance, but 'welfare concern' is, like most things, hyperbolic and a bit embarrassing
Maybe there's a discussion around fatigue and performance, but 'welfare concern' is, like most things, hyperbolic and a bit embarrassing
Don't get what money has to do with any of this. Even if they are paid a fortune, doesn't mean they're less prone to injury or burnout now especially when it's due to insanely packed schedules.
Because all those players, who are crying about games, are demanding and getting better and better contracts every year. You can't cry about number of games while signing richer contracts at the same time.
Quantity over quality, I'd rather there be more quality matches less often, rather than this nonsense of almost half the league playing 3 times every 7 days.
I reckon towards the end of this season we'll see some quite ridiculous and very surprising results and scorelines as players could be more fatigued due to this early season rut of fixtures. Add in the players who will be at the world cup and some of the big teams could be struggling come April and May.
I reckon towards the end of this season we'll see some quite ridiculous and very surprising results and scorelines as players could be more fatigued due to this early season rut of fixtures. Add in the players who will be at the world cup and some of the big teams could be struggling come April and May.
Or maybe prestige,1) With more games came bigger rosters. Rotate ffs.
2) Amount of games on tv raises sponsorship money and part of that money finishes in their pockets.
3. Despite what Ronaldo said (), they are not slaves. They can always sign for less attractive club and play one game per week. Just as you can refuse pay rise in your job and go to work somewhere less. Who is stopping them? Ah, i know; money.
Football is all about winning at the end of the day, so they want to play for the best teams to stand a chance of winning.
The fact that these players are so good is the reason they are playing so many games, so are you honestly saying they shouldn't be as good as they are?
Or if they don't want to play that amount of games they should go play for the dog and duck?
If so that defeats the whole objective of elite football.
Clubs rotate all the time, Rice however is integral to West Ham, without him their chances of winning diminishes massively.
The simple fact is TV money is what brings in the vast majority of income, if you have an issue with wages just stop watching and do your bit.
The welfare of players at any level should be paramount.
Disagree massively,
A player always wants to play, I have never known a footballer at any level who doesn't want to play (mitigating circumstances otherwise).
The manager picks a team based on who they deem right to win the game, a player will always put themselves forward if required.
The issue is with the schedule, cramming in three games a week, along with training, travelling and international games it is too much.
Reading just dropped two players tonight due to both of them being 'high risk of injury'.
Welfare concern is real in every club, every club has a welfare officer no matter what level.
It's not hyperbolic, it's called looking after employees/humans and saleable assets.
To be fair, the offset is that they can essentially retire in their 20s. Doesn't seem a bad deal to have a worse work-life balance for five years and then retire for the rest of your life. I'd take that.
Good point. I do feel that remuneration Is bound to come into the discussion at the moment, when many ordinary people are genuinely struggling to make ends meet. And especially at a point where the Tufton street ‘think’ tanks are guiding the Tory government back to early Victorian levels of inequality and eroding protections for workers in the name of ‘growth’, by which they mean profits.
It’s interesting that the people that got us through the pandemic such as NHS staff, care-home workers, supermarket people etc are paid the most shit wages.
That said, give me footballers any day compared to fecking hedge fund managers!
Boo hoo. Doctors in my country work 30-32 hours straight a couple times per week in addition to normal strenuous work days and don’t even work for a fraction of what footballers make and don’t go complaining to the public about how stressful our lives are. These guys retire before they’re 40 with more money than almost everyone will ever see in their life.
They are welcome to do another job if their current one of training for a few hours per day, going to the gym and having a high quality diet, playing a football match and traveling all around the world to adoring crowds while making millions is too strenuous for them.
Never mind how tone deaf this is on the back of covid where countless people lost their jobs and income, and now the cost of living is increasing exponentially and they are one of the few groups who not only are not adversely affected by this, but in fact are making more money than ever.
They are welcome to do another job if their current one of training for a few hours per day, going to the gym and having a high quality diet, playing a football match and traveling all around the world to adoring crowds while making millions is too strenuous for them.
Never mind how tone deaf this is on the back of covid where countless people lost their jobs and income, and now the cost of living is increasing exponentially and they are one of the few groups who not only are not adversely affected by this, but in fact are making more money than ever.
The schedule is demanding but I think management should shoulder a large portion of the responsibility when players are playing 60+ games a year.
It’s not a surprise to a football manager that their team will be playing this many games, it’s known, so they should manage their squad to effectively deal with that.
It should make things more interesting rather this debate about welfare.
It’s not a surprise to a football manager that their team will be playing this many games, it’s known, so they should manage their squad to effectively deal with that.
It should make things more interesting rather this debate about welfare.
And that is why you have 25 players in team. It is similiar as having a company which works in two shifts. And if boss says that half people will work double shift and other half can stay at home, who is to blame there? Government?
No, workers can blame boss and the owner.
Same is with players. They should cry to manager and owner. Not Uefa, Fifa or FA.
Or.....as i said, they can feck off and play in club and league where they will feel right.
God, i really dislike this era players. Bunch of spoiled brats.
There's clearly an argument to be had about whether these guys are being expected to play too many games, and whether that negatively impacts their health and/or the quality of football they can deliver under these circumstances.
However, these discussions should kept firmly within the halls of football clubs. Players need to realise that the average man working 40 hours a week to make ends meet isn't going to really sympathise with their predicament.
However, these discussions should kept firmly within the halls of football clubs. Players need to realise that the average man working 40 hours a week to make ends meet isn't going to really sympathise with their predicament.
TO use your analogy, a small company who has to work set shifts set by an umbrella company, you will have the morning shift workers who are very good at their job and work well, you will then have your evening shift workers who are a bit younger and maybe not quite up to the grade or are still learning.
Now the manager can mix the two up, however in order to get the most productivity from his workers he'd rather keep his morning workers and night workers separate, now the issue the manager has is the morning workers also work for an international company every now and then because they are very good at their job. This is set by the umbrella company who informs how often the workers need to work, who and when the workers need to go to the international company, and may at any moment change when the shifts happen to suit other businesses who are supplying investment.
This leads to fatigue for the morning workers, and leads to productivity drops when the morning workers phone in sick, which leads to the managers job being under threat, the finances of the club taking a hit and a general downward spiral.
All this because the umbrella company want to keep the finances rolling in with little to no thought as to what it's doing to the workforce.
Sound familiar?
Whilst you have a point, you are talking about a small minority of players here.
Not all players can retire early, and several that have (at premiership level) have ran into issues with drink, drugs, depression and financial issues.
Most Championship players and below wouldn't be able to retire, some of them play more games than players in the premiership, as quite a few are also full internationals.
Only going to get worse, how many more european games shortly with CL expansion?
And obviously international tournaments expanding endlessly.
Every other summer really should have no football from when CL final ends but already in summer 2023 you've got loads of nations league games again and still talk of expanded club world cup.
Less is more sometimes.
It's not just the English lads btw, De Bruyne has frequently called up the fixture congestion in last two years and Courtois also said how boring he was finding the nations league.
Surely logic is just to scrap the qualifiers and have the entry from nations league? Will be ridiculous if it's kept when euros eventually gets expanded to 32 teams, current system would be completely pointless.
And obviously international tournaments expanding endlessly.
Every other summer really should have no football from when CL final ends but already in summer 2023 you've got loads of nations league games again and still talk of expanded club world cup.
Less is more sometimes.
It's not just the English lads btw, De Bruyne has frequently called up the fixture congestion in last two years and Courtois also said how boring he was finding the nations league.
Surely logic is just to scrap the qualifiers and have the entry from nations league? Will be ridiculous if it's kept when euros eventually gets expanded to 32 teams, current system would be completely pointless.
I don't know, I mean how many hours a day do they train? 3? Kind of compensates for the travel.
I can't put myself in their shoes but I've always thought if I were a player, I might bin off playing for country. Especially if you're nationality is a country that won't win anything.
With their wealth and the time off it would afford them. Seems like a lovely way to go about things.
It's the best way for them to exert pressure and put this discussion on the agenda. Also, the average working individual would not be able to cope physically/mentally with the heavy schedule that's become a norm since project restart as it is simply a question of human limitations. If the average individual is not holding the prejudice that someone better off than them is not allowed to complain about anything it's not really a problem.