Joe Hart being unceremoniously f××ked off by Citeh

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Interesting that people have a problem with Hart being 'Treated' like this when they'd gladly see Rooney bundled off to China.

Very close parallels here. One of the best strikers in the world! One of the best keepers in the world! Tub thumping English Lion to the core! Immune from criticism... Until all of a sudden someone points all that out to be false.

With both of them it feels like a case of the emperors new clothes.

If you listen to podcasts and not print, especially outside of the UK print media bubble, most are speaking about how effectively Mourinho is giving Rooney the ability to 'Play his way out of the side' to make way for Miki. The same voices condemn Hart for being routinely shown up.

Hart has got bombed out quickly because he's a goalkeeper. Pep can't have his team 'Carrying' a goalkeeper because it's a very special position for him. They need to learn to play as 11 players and not 1 keeper and 10 outfield players as quickly as possible.
 
The only odd thing is how "last minute" it feels.

Surely everyone involved in the situation knew this is exactly what was going to happen since January..... Hart could have spent 6 months training his footwork & distribution with their keeping coaches if he wanted to stay, or try to prove himself to Pep. Ample time to figure out a future for him, and the club, if he didn't want to change his game. Liverpool, Everton, and various high level clubs around Europe who may be interested in a new keeper. Maybe these clubs were informed, and decided they weren't interested in the package on offer, either wages, transfer fee, loan fee, or whatever? Maybe most of these clubs just plain don't rate Hart all that much?

Still, it's not like Torino are some bunch of shitehawks......
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Interesting that people have a problem with Hart being 'Treated' like this when they'd gladly see Rooney bundled off to China.

Very close parallels here. One of the best strikers in the world! One of the best keepers in the world! Tub thumping English Lion to the core! Immune from criticism... Until all of a sudden someone points all that out to be false.

With both of them it feels like a case of the emperors new clothes.

If you listen to podcasts and not print, especially outside of the UK print media bubble, most are speaking about how effectively Mourinho is giving Rooney the ability to 'Play his way out of the side' to make way for Miki. The same voices condemn Hart for being routinely shown up.

Hart has got bombed out quickly because he's a goalkeeper. Pep can't have his team 'Carrying' a goalkeeper because it's a very special position for him. They need to learn to play as 11 players and not 1 keeper and 10 outfield players as quickly as possible.
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Joe Hart is not one of the best goalkeeper's in the world. He has proved that on many the occasion.
 
.Rossi said:
Joe Hart is not one of the best goalkeeper's in the world. He has proved that on many the occasion.
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That whole second paragraph was me pedalling the English Print Media narrative. Hence the rampany use of exclamation marks. Read the post as a whole rather than a soundbite.

I've never believed it but he's been built up to that by our press for years.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
That whole second paragraph was me pedalling the English Print Media narrative. Hence the rampany use of exclamation marks. Read the post as a whole rather than a soundbite.

I've never believed it but he's been built up to that by our press for years.
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Oh I know. I'm just saying he's not one of the best goalkeeper's in the world, regardless of what is written about him. It seems like this generation of English players are only good at keeping the media onside.

For example, Rooney got a 9 for his performance on Saturday and an 8 for his performance against Iceland. He was then given a platform, by the media to push the blame onto Woy. Same with Hart's buddies in the media. "Oh it's not fair on Joe"

Course it's fecking fair. He's been shite for 3 years
 
.Rossi said:
It seems like this generation of English players are only good at keeping the media onside.

For example, Rooney got a 9 for his performance on Saturday and an 8 for his performance against Iceland. He was then given a platform, by the media to push the blame onto Woy. Same with Hart's buddies in the media. "Oh it's not fair on Joe"
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Solid.

It's one of the very rare bonus points of being a United fan in New Zealand. I was exposed to the UK media for a couple of decades as a fan but none of that is readily available now.

I don't see the English media at all. I watch MOTD at 9am in the morning which is quite pleasant. I listen to the ESPN, Times, Australian Guardian Podcasts plus a couple of others. It's damn refreshing to hear great football people speak openly and honestly without any kind of agreed agenda. They tore Rooney apart during the Euros. They criticise with impunity and get some great debate going as nothing is off limits.
 
Hart has had basically 0 competition in the national side and club for 3 years, rested on his laurels. I swear he must of made a deal with the devil as whenever another england keeper got close to dislodging him, they got a serious injury (Forster, Butland). He's made his bed for a while now and he has to accept it. There's no doubt he was a bloody good keeper, but he was immune to criticism by the press and managers, due to a lack of replacements.

Serves him right for resting on his laurels. Hope he takes this smack in the face to get back on track
 
More I think about I still think Pep handled this poorly. If this was done earlier he could have gotten his GK earlier. Now it seems like he just got a GK that was available. I am not sure Bravo is a improvement on Hart and Caballero for damn sure is not an improvement on Hart.
 
I don't really know what Pep has done wrong, shock ! Horror ! New manager doesn't fancy existing player......it happens time and time again.

Hart has been an inconsistent keeper for large periods of his career, while not as calamitous as, say, David James he makes far too many mistakes to be considered top class.

England were the joke side of the Euros and he was the worst player in that England team so it's absolutely no surprise that he started on the back foot under Pep. Like all fans we have no idea what goes on in the privacy of training grounds and Hart unsurprisingly has not convinced.

Who knows perhaps Pep left it late to make the decision to give Hart the maximum time to convince him. He can't be blamed, the ball has been firmly in the hands of the player.
 
Skills said:
Yeah, their history is quite similar to ours. A legendary team (reigning 4 times serie a champions) ended by an air disaster.
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5 times in a row :)
that team was invincible.
7 scudetti + 1 revoked , not bad if you think that 40 years have passed since their last win in the league.
they also have 5 italy's cup.
one final in the Uefa cup lost against Ajax.
we are not talking about Sassuolo or Chievo :)
Anyway Hart shows a lot of courage to accept a less attractive destination as Torinofc is in this moment, respect for him.
 
I don't rate him that much, but surely he's better than Torino? He's still a good premier league level keeper.
 
This is down to Joe Hart's greed. Wouldn't take a pay cut so finds himself in Italy still being paid through Oil money.

Take a pay cut and establish yourself at a decent team Joe.
 
dogwithabone said:
I don't really know what Pep has done wrong, shock ! Horror ! New manager doesn't fancy existing player......it happens time and time again.

Hart has been an inconsistent keeper for large periods of his career, while not as calamitous as, say, David James he makes far too many mistakes to be considered top class.

England were the joke side of the Euros and he was the worst player in that England team so it's absolutely no surprise that he started on the back foot under Pep. Like all fans we have no idea what goes on in the privacy of training grounds and Hart unsurprisingly has not convinced.

Who knows perhaps Pep left it late to make the decision to give Hart the maximum time to convince him. He can't be blamed, the ball has been firmly in the hands of the player.
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Agreed. I don't think Jose is in the wrong about Bastian, and by extension I see very little problems with Hart's situation. Both were simply not in the managers plans.
Can argue semantics about how to best handle situations, but the managers loyalty and focus needs to be on the team they see themselves leading.

Do note, I think Hart has acted pretty well when it comes to the media (apart from before Guardiola arrived) in this, and I still think he is a decent keeper for a side like for example Liverpool (even if they have that new injured gk), or even Arsenal if they didn't have Cech.
 
2 Man Midfield said:
I don't rate him that much, but surely he's better than Torino? He's still a good premier league level keeper.
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Torino aren't exactly Championship quality. Serie A is a decent league now from what I hear.
 
Torino came in 12th last year in Serie A, in comparison Swansea came 12th in the PL, which is a stronger league.

Quite the fall from grace this move imo.
 
2 Man Midfield said:
That's not what I heard. Either way, it's one hell of a step down.
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SwansonsTache said:
Torino came in 12th last year in Serie A, in comparison Swansea came 12th in the PL, which is a stronger league.

Quite the fall from grace this move imo.
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Joe Hart was only linked with these sorts of teams - Everton finished 11th last year. Sunderland are fighting relegation.

Torino were one place below Inter in the season prior. Its a much of a muchness at this point. No team playing European football wants him, so he may as well go somewhere in a lower bracket and play.
 
No matter how you spin it, going from being number 1 keeper for a two time premier league winning team with realistic CL aspirations to a mid table Italian team is a huge fall from grace and just plain weird.

Fair enough he wont suit Pep's system but surely there was a better destination than Torino. He's 29 so should be coming into his prime as a keeper.
 
Ødegaard said:
Agreed. I don't think Jose is in the wrong about Bastian, and by extension I see very little problems with Hart's situation. Both were simply not in the managers plans.
Can argue semantics about how to best handle situations, but the managers loyalty and focus needs to be on the team they see themselves leading.

Do note, I think Hart has acted pretty well when it comes to the media (apart from before Guardiola arrived) in this, and I still think he is a decent keeper for a side like for example Liverpool (even if they have that new injured gk), or even Arsenal if they didn't have Cech.
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I'm amazed people don't see the difference in arguably a club legend like Hart and a newcomer to United in Schweinstieger.

Pep and City have handled it poorly. No question about it.
 
Why are Liverpool not taking him? Surely he's better than whoever they have now.
 
CLARiiON said:
Why are Liverpool not taking him? Surely he's better than whoever they have now.
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Could be either A) Wages are an issue, B) City refuse to sell him to Liverpool. It's probably a combination of the two, City will pay a percentage of his wages at Torino, but would never do so if he went to Liverpool.
 
GBBQ said:
No matter how you spin it, going from being number 1 keeper for a two time premier league winning team with realistic CL aspirations to a mid table Italian team is a huge fall from grace and just plain weird.

Fair enough he wont suit Pep's system but surely there was a better destination than Torino. He's 29 so should be coming into his prime as a keeper.
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I find it somehow logical. He is overrated, a keeper with a lot of faults and whats more important bad with his foot and not able to play modern football. He is overpaid, for all the interesting clubs outside the PL who plays european. They all got or can get decent keepers for better wages.

Now where since years some competence is arriving at shity, he and the club and the media is confronted with the reality: that he delivers to less for the topclass and would never had a chance somewhere in europe at topclubs, especialy not on this wages.
podurban2 said:
Could be either A) Wages are an issue, B) City refuse to sell him to Liverpool. It's probably a combination of the two, City will pay a percentage of his wages at Torino, but would never do so if he went to Liverpool.
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Liverpool got Karius which is rated by Klopp very high. And Klopp would never want him, not only cause of his "skills", more cause of his behaviour and thinking that he is worldclass and no one can criticize him. He would harm the atmosphere in a Kloppteam.
 
slig said:
I find it somehow logical. He is overrated, a keeper with a lot of faults and whats more important bad with his foot and not able to play modern football. He is overpaid, for all the interesting clubs outside the PL who plays european. They all got or can get decent keepers for better wages.

Now where since years some competence is arriving at shity, he and the club and the media is confronted with the reality: that he delivers to less for the topclass and would never had a chance somewhere in europe at topclubs, especialy not on this wages.


Liverpool got Karius which is rated by Klopp very high. And Klopp would never want him, not only cause of his "skills", more cause of his behaviour and thinking that he is worldclass and no one can criticize him. He would harm the atmosphere in a Kloppteam.
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Anything to back up your points on big bad Joe?
 
roonster09 said:
Anything to back up your points on big bad Joe?
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His faults are well known, the last ones everyone remember were in the Euros. He is not cabable of play good and secure with his foot. And his attitude in interviews is somehow not humble.

The result of the points i mentioned can be seen by everyone: he will go to Torino.
 
slig said:
His faults are well known, the last ones everyone remember were in the Euros. He is not cabable of play good and secure with his foot. And his attitude in interviews is somehow not humble.

The result of the points i mentioned can be seen by everyone: he will go to Torino.
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Not about his mistakes. Everyone knows that. About him thinking he is world class and no one can criticize him.

He was at city for more than 7 years and there weren't many news about him problem for dressing room harmony. So anything to back your points?

He is going to Torino not because of all the reasons you mentioned, Pep don't rate him so he is offloaded.
 
TheReligion said:
I'm amazed people don't see the difference in arguably a club legend like Hart and a newcomer to United in Schweinstieger.

Pep and City have handled it poorly. No question about it.
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I see the difference in their respective historical position (or lack thereof) in the different clubs, but in the end I see neither as legends.

And that's beside the point, Keane is a United legend, but we moved him on because he became something our manager didn't want in the squad. If Jose doesn't want Bastian & Guardiola doesn't want Hart, that to me is the same thing, the manager shouldn't be forced to use a player he does not want or need, that's giving into player power and undermines the manager regardless of the players status at their respective clubs.
 
GBBQ said:
No matter how you spin it, going from being number 1 keeper for a two time premier league winning team with realistic CL aspirations to a mid table Italian team is a huge fall from grace and just plain weird.

Fair enough he wont suit Pep's system but surely there was a better destination than Torino. He's 29 so should be coming into his prime as a keeper.
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I think it's more a case that the better teams all seem quite happy with their goalkeeper choices for the time being so his options are severely limited as a result with regards to moving clubs in this window. It was looking like Sunderland over here were the only ones showing any real interest so with that in mind as odd as it seems, it's understandable that not too many clubs are in for him at this moment in time.
 
roonster09 said:
He is going to Torino not because of all the reasons you mentioned, Pep don't rate him so he is offloaded.
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Yeah, and i talked about points why nobody else than Torino (without European Football) has a use for him. That fact should talk for itself..
 
slig said:
Yeah, and i talked about points why nobody else than Torino (without European Football) has a use for him. That fact should talk for itself..
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Because big teams have better goal keepers. At similar age Van der Sar moved from Juventus to Fulham. That doesn't mean VdS had attitude issues.
 
roonster09 said:
Because big teams have better goal keepers. At similar age Van der Sar moved from Juventus to Fulham. That doesn't mean VdS had attitude issues.
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Just talked only about him at Liverpool, which is impossible. 1. They got Karius 2. He wouldnt suit to a Kloppteam, cause he played for years for a wannabe topteam, is (was) Englands nr.1 and is probably thinking about himseld that he got some kind of status .
 
He will end up somewhere different next year, just needs to keep playing regularly. Probably too late to get a place anywhere bigger.
 
M18CTID said:
I think it's more a case that the better teams all seem quite happy with their goalkeeper choices for the time being so his options are severely limited as a result with regards to moving clubs in this window. It was looking like Sunderland over here were the only ones showing any real interest so with that in mind as odd as it seems, it's understandable that not too many clubs are in for him at this moment in time.
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Yeah but with Liverpool and Everton both buying goalkeepers this summer it seems like a missed opportunity for Hart. I don't blame Hart for believing he can stake a claim under Pep but clearly Pep never rated him so perhaps he should have let Hart know back in February.
 
Hope he does well. The timings of it all have screwed him over. You're unlikely to find clubs scrambling for goalkeepers so long into the transfer window (I think de Gea las summer was an exception). It's a position which most teams won't want to change unless they feel necessary.

Unlike most here, I like Hart and hope he does well and possibly secure a permanent move to a bigger team next season.
 
saivet said:
Hope he does well. The timings of it all have screwed him over. You're unlikely to find clubs scrambling for goalkeepers so long into the transfer window (I think de Gea las summer was an exception). It's a position which most teams won't want to change unless they feel necessary.

Unlike most here, I like Hart and hope he does well and possibly secure a permanent move to a bigger team next season.
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I agree. Maybe don't like him, but I don't not like him - I think he's OK. And I want him to do well because so few british players take the chance and go abroad, at least he has taken that chance (thats why I now like Bale a lot). At least he shows some character off the pitch which very few footballers do (another reason I like Ibra so much)
 
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