From my head
Jimmy Carter dies
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
From my head
Was he a great President, probably not, but then I compare him to what followed and then think he was mabe a lot better than we give him credit for - without question he was a very decent man, a trait that is sadly lacking these days in politicians - RIP
Genuine question; why not?
He’s before my time and although I maintain a surface level interest in US politics I don’t have a basis for an opinion on him so would be interested in as much of a summary you could give.
Still my favourite manic street preachers song
Vaxxed?
The nature of the job requires that it be inhabited by evil people. The stuff you have to do to get there. The stuff you to do to maintain it. Even someone who I believe to be a good person would do many evil things if they got there. And I don't believe Carter to be a good person.
Carter ran racist campaigns where he got elected by painting his opponents as friendly to black people. He campaigned in defense of segregation in housing. As president he deregulated trucking and air travel to pretty disastrous results. He supported monsters overseas in the name of anticommunism. He sent weapons to fuel the East Timor genocide and gave tacit support to Pol Pot while curtailment but not ending support for Samoza. He helped crackdown on protests of Korean students while giving asylum to the Shah. He armed the dictatorship that murdered Oscar Romero.
All the houses he built can never buy back his soul.
Only argued that his presidency wasn't an 'absolute mare.' Was it a strong presidency, far from it, but he did have successes.
If the job is almost impossible though and someone has to do it what right do we have to judge them, when we wouldn't even think about trying to get the position and if we did we would be an unmitigated disaster at it?
I have been thinking about the CEO murder moral maze and I wonder if we just won't accept that the world is the way it is because of us.
We run the supposed perfect alternative, would have been world, against the real one and find it(the real one) wanting. My guess is that the alternate decisions would often lead to equally evil outcomes but we will never know because the choices made eliminate the alternates.
Probably you are right about the above but all these jobs end in their occupants becoming bean counters, then we hate them for counting the beans.
Every right. They're not the only ones responsible — the system itself is the issue first and foremost (not just the American one)— yet you still can (and should) judge the actions of individuals that get to that public positions of power.
No. Everyone doing similar things to get into these positions, and then continuing that while in such a position, contributes to keeping the situation in place for the next person to do the same stuff again. You could say 'if I don't, somebody else does' - but if you do, why wouldn't somebody else? Change starts with every individual changing.
And if you don't believe in that, then at least these people could start making change happen when they have achieved that position of authority and can no longer be judged and discarded for being too nice. It doesn't seem like Carter did that, from @Eboue's summary.
I mean, if we have to believe that systemic change just isn't possible, then how come we ever got a weekend, and minimum wages, and basically everything else that people didn't use to have, that bosses were deadset against, but that are now intrinsic parts of society?
Ok yeah, we have a right, some right, and we know that some of the decisions are made for shockingly bad reasons. The thing is are we prepared to give the people who make those choices better options or not? I don't think we are.
If you look at the list of terrible things the poster believes we should expect Carter to lose his soul for one of them is granting asylum to the Shah of Iran.
Do you think he should lose his soul for that Harms?
And you chose Eboue?
The Soviet Union wouldn't have fallen, it's entirely possible that millions of Europeans would still live under tyranny. Reagan wasn't the problem, it's what came afterwards.
Look I just wanted to suggest that things can look straight forward with hindsight, which were actually complex and difficult at the time. Most people evade responsibility like the plague then attack those who take responsibility. They ascribe unworkable untested ideas as if they are golden nuggets or the work of a genius.( I do this a lot as well)
We are more and more pie in the sky thinkers and unrealistic about solutions and outcomes.
That doesn't mean we switch to uncritical thinking or serfdom. Its more a realistic approach given the driving forces. The US president's first priority is making Americans richer, that's what they expect, that's what they demand and that's what they vote on. That being the case (like probably every country) why do we then expect the President to grow a conscience on issues which would reduce their influence, power and control?
Liked him on 8 out of 10 cats
I can do no other
Solid innings to be fair.
He lived a full life, he had experienced every aspect of life( both good and bad).
The Soviet Union would have absolutely fallen. Crediting Reagan for that is nothing but political marketing by the American right. Clever marketing, too.
A huge part of the current issues of the western world can be traced back to Reagan.
The word Apartheid is entirely accurate...the Palestinians can't even ride on the same roads that Israel have built inside Palestinian territory... much worse than they were in South Africa
Surely the big guy can make room for one more president before the end of the year? A nice warm basement apartment perhaps.
Surely the big guy can make room for one more president before the end of the year? A nice warm basement apartment perhaps.
Are we prepared to give them options other than supporting a genocidal regime (during the ongoing genocide)? Is that really our responsibility? That irks me a bit more than the asylum thing personally.
Well, I think it’s fair to say to midwife isn’t to blame for his death.
Are we sure people aren't making up stuff about him? Saw someone say he supported lifting sanctions on Rhodesia so I did a quick Google search but he seems to have been strongly against white rule in Rhodesia.
The real answer is Great Britain.
Indeed it is - all you need to do is watch a few Al Murray videos to know this
Can you really criticize him for doing this?
He ran on a campaign of racism in a pretty racist state. Won. Then told the racists to go feck themselves and then U-turned on all the dog whistles that he said and was a pro-Civil rights activist and legislator as soon as he got into office.
Hmm. Let me think. Yes I can.
So it doesn't matter what someone actually does when in office, but what matters more is what they say they might do to get elected in a pretty partisan state?
When the civil rights were signed? 1964-68
When carter was elected president? 1977
What carter did (or not did) during the civil rights movement? Nothing, not supporting desegregation and not supporting Johnson on the civil rights
After a decade when the hard job was done, he jump the train
U.S. govt reading Carter
I think both matter, a person can be both good and flawed, or say bad things and those things should rightly be criticised. People also change and grow, however, so I do think judging certain things through the lens of 21st century standards is sometimes unhelpful; to better appraise Jimmy Carter on these things would be to have asked him if he now thinks these campaigns were wrong.