Between now and the return of Rashford the schedule is not packed. It's not like last season the backups are going to rely carabao cup for minutes. Lingard and James are surplus to requirements and should be sold.
Jesse Lingard
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Ignoring Martial much?
We all knew this would happen, right? He'd come back and say he wants to fight for his place and assume (with good reason) that in a couple of months he'd just get a new deal here.
Maybe Jesse will replace Messi at Barca. They need a new #10 now.
That is a HUGE gamble on his part, I am shocked he wants to stay, but it could be a good year for him. With Rashy out lord knows how long, we need some dept. I can't believe James is still a united player, but what do I know, Fergie said Jones could be the best prem defender ever, so everyone is wrong from time to time.
If anything it makes it harder for Jesse to get into the side, because one thing Lingard most definitely isn't is a winger and he's obviously not a striker.
I doubt it.
Considering he was just offered and signed a new deal and the club are actively trying to sell Lingard, then I see him getting more minutes than Jesse. The writing is on the wall for Lingard, if he stays it's only because he's trying to run his contract down to leave on a free next year. Because Solskjaer couldn't make it more clear that he isn't in his plans.
I'm sorry, but have you forgot that Lingard started his journey as a senior player at united at LW? Lingard usurped Memphis Depay! He played as a LW when he scored his first competitive league goal for United against West Brom in 2015 and he got his first assist in Europe against CSKA Moscow days prior in the same position.
Mourinho deployed him more centrally when he dropped Mkhitaryan for him. Mourinho also played him as a RW and a LW and preferred him to Mata on several occasions. Lingard would be perfectly suited as a false 9 to boot.
Winger Lingard, 22, curled home from the edge of the box early in the second half to give the hosts the lead.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/34686915
Here is Sky sports in 2021 labeling him a winger
United boss Ole Gunnar Solskaer has said the former England winger still has an Old Trafford future
https://www.skysports.com/football/...nsiders-permanent-transfer-for-man-utd-winger
I'll be surprised if Lingard stays and doesn't get more minutes than Mata. Again, I'm not against selling him for a decent fee if it goes towards another key signing, but I firmly believe he can play a role here. His form at West Ham if anything just further exposed Solskjaer's lack of tactical nous for me. More tactically adept managers have got good use out of Lingard in big games
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No I have not I have vivid memories of him playing on the wing which is why I can confidently claim he is no winger. I've seen Lingard play many times on the left wing and the right wing especially. So yeah he can play on the wings the same way Phil Jones could play at left back. But neither are particularly good in those positions. It's also great that he plan play false 9 but with Cavani, Rashford, Martial and Greenwood in the squad we won't be deploying a false 9 and if we did it would be Bruno filling that role. So I just don't see where he gets minutes personally. He only played 3 games for us before Xmas last season and since then we've added Sancho and Diallo to the squad so if he stays I honestly doubt he even starts in the cups.
Yeah let's rehire Moyes to get the best out of Lingard. More tactically defensive managers have got good use out of him you mean. Which makes sense considering his workrate and energy but limitations in an attacking sense.
The issue with keeping Lingard is that bar a six week period when he first went to WHU he did sod all last year, a brief purple patch after the dross he churned out whilst here, are people forgetting he did not make one assist or score one goal in a year? For me though the bigger issue is that he actually blocks the way for younger players to get a chance, with Mata and Lingard in the squad, getting minutes to preserve value we are blocking the way for promising players to get time. Fact is though Lingard has no desire to leave, he can spend a season at United earning a big salary and have very little pressure on him. Probably a nice guy to have around the dressing room.
I believe Villa are quite flush at the moment!
Him, James and Matic are like leeches, at least Pereira is actually trying to move on.
Come on mate, leeches is a bit far. There's no shame in them wanting to stay, they have contracts and are ambitious people - they don't just want to give up on playing for a massive club like ours, which is understandable. Matic is an odd one to mention, he's a very good professional to have as part of the squad.
They are taking up space, Lingard has had lots of chances and isn't good enough, James isn't either and has also had his chances. Matic is past it, just sticking around with hardly any game time, if they were ambitious they'd go somewhere to play regularly, instead they are preventing United from progressing because we need to sell in order to sort out our mess of a midfield.
I agree that Lingard is in denial, but he may actually believe he is good enough after his spell at West Ham, that doesn't make him a leech. Rodwell for example, was a leech at Sunderland. For James, have you ever had to give up a dream job? I don't think it's as easy as you're painting it out to be. Also, why should they care more about United progressing over their personal careers? United were the ones that gave them the contracts, they should honour them. None of them are unprofessional, I don't really understand the leech type comments.
And some will claim that only in hindsight this looks a bad deal but back then it made sense (see Jones thread
Would an ambitious player effectively sit out the last 2 years of their contract though?
No, but that's not happened yet has it. So it's hard to judge someone on actions that haven't taken place.
He is certain to stay at this point, nothing suggest otherwise. I think it's a mistake as he won't play, or be as effective as west ham, but we'll see. Ole lacks ruthlessness to be quite frank, I hope it's something he develops over time.
That's not an observation that is backed up by many stats to be fair. He quite clearly has quite a few qualities that are very desirable in our squad (and yes, someone younger, fitter, better would be nice
) so I find his inclusion in your list a bit odd as well... Not at his best, but certainly don't want to get rid either.As for Lingard. It's a fine balance between being well stocked, having options in the squad and being bloated. Having Rashford, Cavani, Sancho, Greenwood, Martial as definites above him (I'd have thought) and James, Mata, Amad and Elanga vying for minutes as well, that they may try and push a move for him. Finding buyers though isn't going to be easy for the money we would ask for him.
Having said that, decent, flexible player as well. Plenty of experience, good big game record, good at exploiting space and not a bad 'option' to have if he stays....
We need to ship out Two out of James Mata and Lingard. If they all stay the three of them will share around 90 minutes per month.
Him staying kinda smacks to me of someone just wanting to be there for the “banter” with Sanchy and Rashy.
I know their is a notion that staying and fighting is always commendable and Hollywood often teaches us that the small fry wins but surely at 28 he’s got to look at his situation and realise that it’s probably best he moves somewhere where he can be the main man. West Ham would have been a perfect move for him if you ask me.
Anyway if he stays I hope he can help us but I feel like he’ll just slip back in to the old routine of being happy to be there and lose confidence in his own ability causing a drop in performances till he is back where he was before he went on loan.
All this playing time in pre season has probably done him a dirty.
I know their is a notion that staying and fighting is always commendable and Hollywood often teaches us that the small fry wins but surely at 28 he’s got to look at his situation and realise that it’s probably best he moves somewhere where he can be the main man. West Ham would have been a perfect move for him if you ask me.
Anyway if he stays I hope he can help us but I feel like he’ll just slip back in to the old routine of being happy to be there and lose confidence in his own ability causing a drop in performances till he is back where he was before he went on loan.
All this playing time in pre season has probably done him a dirty.
Can't blame Lingard if he is willing to hang around. Fan of the club and is earning a decent amount. Time for Ole to grow a pair and clearly let him know if he has a position in the squad or not. I would rather give him a squad place as he tries, unlike the leeches who need special attention to do their job. The ideal situation would be for him to leave and get us some additional funds and free up some wages, but there are many others I would like to get rid of first.
Random criticism of a manager when you have no idea what the conversations between them have been like isn't it?
if he can be as useful as he was for the Hammers then he is worth a squad place.
In the long term though he really hasnt got the calibre to be in the 1st 11. Good sub option
In the long term though he really hasnt got the calibre to be in the 1st 11. Good sub option
I hear there's an opening at a certain Catalan club.
No I have not I have vivid memories of him playing on the wing which is why I can confidently claim he is no winger. I've seen Lingard play many times on the left wing and the right wing especially. So yeah he can play on the wings the same way Phil Jones could play at left back. But neither are particularly good in those positions. It's also great that he plan play false 9 but with Cavani, Rashford, Martial and Greenwood in the squad we won't be deploying a false 9 and if we did it would be Bruno filling that role. So I just don't see where he gets minutes personally. He only played 3 games for us before Xmas last season and since then we've added Sancho and Diallo to the squad so if he stays I honestly doubt he even starts in the cups.
Yeah let's rehire Moyes to get the best out of Lingard. More tactically defensive managers have got good use out of him you mean. Which makes sense considering his workrate and energy but limitations in an attacking sense.
Solskjaer is more pragmatic than most would care to admit and has hardly deviated from the same tried and tested 4-2-3-1 that his equally pragmatic predecessor used.
Three years in we still approach big games like a mid to lower league club and he still has no real effective plan B. His inertia on the sidelines is legendary. You cannot tell me the Lingard we saw at West Ham couldn't have helped keep Bruno fresh.
Will Bruno be played to death again this season? Will more of our squad players be utilized or will we be waiting to see subs in the 87th minute or 100th minute in cup games like the miserable Europa league final? If Lingard is not sold by transfer deadline I'm certain we'll see more of him.
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Been giving so many chances over the years by all the managers we have had and no improvement. Suppose when your on 130k a week and just turn up to train why would you leave. Few others in the squad on big salaries and in same boat and not good enough.
The thing is I care about Manchester United, not them, and them refusing to leave is preventing the teams progression as we need to sell to buy, so either they are delusional or leeches, either way they are a obstacle to getting our midfield sorted out.
That's not an observation that is backed up by many stats to be fair. He quite clearly has quite a few qualities that are very desirable in our squad (and yes, someone younger, fitter, better would be nice
As for Lingard. It's a fine balance between being well stocked, having options in the squad and being bloated. Having Rashford, Cavani, Sancho, Greenwood, Martial as definites above him (I'd have thought) and James, Mata, Amad and Elanga vying for minutes as well, that they may try and push a move for him. Finding buyers though isn't going to be easy for the money we would ask for him.
Having said that, decent, flexible player as well. Plenty of experience, good big game record, good at exploiting space and not a bad 'option' to have if he stays....
Matic can barely play 90 minutes nevermind back to back games, he's not mobile enough and Ole hardly used him last season, he's much better on the ball than McFred but can't be relied on so needs selling, same as we shouldn't have kept Mata, we are stockpiling players who hardly play and who take up bench space and prevent us being able to strengthen the team. Lingard is the same, Bruno, Van de Beek and Sancho can all play that #10 role, he's had his time here and never has been good enough, hence why he was on loan last season, Ole didn't want to use him and we openly need to sell to buy, Lingard, Matic, James, Pereira and Mata aren't needed.
Even if we can get £15-20m for him I’d take it in a heart beat.
Messi Lingard.
Ole wants to sell him, and some others clearly, now it is up to the board to get the deals done. If they put stupid prices for them no one wil buy them, looks like we learned nothing from previous cases.
We really need to force him out. I hope Ole is ruthless on this.
He's worth ~20m now. How much does his value plummet when he has another goalless season?
There's 6 better wingers (Rashy, Sancho, Greenwood, Martial, Elanga, Amad) in the squad right now and if VDB flops as a 10 this year, we should improve on both of them, not settle for the least shitty one.
He's worth ~20m now. How much does his value plummet when he has another goalless season?
There's 6 better wingers (Rashy, Sancho, Greenwood, Martial, Elanga, Amad) in the squad right now and if VDB flops as a 10 this year, we should improve on both of them, not settle for the least shitty one.
£0 even if he reaches Messi's level.
Think Lingard is between two minds. One is that he really wants to play and play in those big games like CL. On the other hand, he knows if he leaves United, his career is going down from there unless he sticks with a CL club.
Remember the video of Chicharito when he was told his time in Europe ended and was going to MLS? That's when you know it's almost over and it's not the same anymore. I think Jesse wants to hang around as long as possible to be part of United and those big games, moments...even if he's not directly involved in the matches. Can't really blame him. He's nowhere near the first XI, even with a couple of injuries not named Bruno.
Remember the video of Chicharito when he was told his time in Europe ended and was going to MLS? That's when you know it's almost over and it's not the same anymore. I think Jesse wants to hang around as long as possible to be part of United and those big games, moments...even if he's not directly involved in the matches. Can't really blame him. He's nowhere near the first XI, even with a couple of injuries not named Bruno.
Actually cannot believe we've not got rid of this guy yet
Let’s imagine he stays - why on Earth would he play in the CL? He has Sancho, Greenwood, Rashford, Bruno, Pogba all ahead of him. He won’t displace our main men even if he stays - and there is also Amad and maybe VDB
Lingard isn't half the bum many people think he is, at least on here. But from a squad rotation POV as a starter or minutes off the bench, potential dead rubber group stage, etc. Amad doesn't play central midfield or attacking mid, he's a wide player. VDB has so much to prove and right now, Lingard and VDB are on equal terms if both are in the squad. I'd love nothing more than to see VDB prove his value to the squad and push Lingard out of the club since one is still a fresh signing and the other has seen his best days at the club.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Jesse Lingard will be at United until he's 35, at which point he'll transition into a role within the coaching set up. He'll then be a coach at United for another 30 years.
He's never leaving just accept it.
You'll likely never see that Lingard at United though.
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