[Polar]

Lingard isn’t a bad backup for Bruno

We forget the fact also Bruno needs rest and doesn’t always have a tiptop day. We need a backup or an alternative to him. Maybe Lingard is a better alternative in this regard than we thought? Have to say I choose Lingard before Mata every time and also before James when he was here.

 

[Pronewbie]

That 1st goal celebration by Jessiiiuuu Lingard

 

[United in sin]

It obviously doesnt excuse Ole but it does matter, it was a very young Ajax side vs giant killers and cup specialists Villareal. And say what you want about Rooney, the guy was a leader and clearly a huge presence in the dressing room, same with Ibra, winning mentality and all that.

Most of us couldn't wait for Rooney to leave, thats how bad it got. He hindered our game. Maybe you should revisit the mood around him at the time, there's a plenty evidence of it in this thread

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/wayne-rooney-2016-17-performances.419636/page-297

Ajax was a young squad but well worth their place in the final for ruthlessly dispatching more experienced sides. They were close to repeating history in Europe, same as they did as young team when they won the CL in 95, same as United did with the class of 92 when apparently you couldn't win with kids. Give them their credit, they were a much better team than the Villarreal side we so timidly lost to

 

[RDCR07]

Who cares about the path? You play who you're pitted against and they're not many easy games when you get to the knockouts. Are you telling me our squad last season wasn't as good as the 2016/17 squad that made the EL final?

Rooney was in a deep decline at that time and didn't play much, only getting 1500 plus mins in the league and only scoring 5 times in the league and 2 in Europe. Pogba provided assists for most of Zlatan's goals, no other player assisted him more. Did Zlatan himself make that much of a difference? We definitely have a better squad now and last season even



I'm talking about progress in the league in terms of points at the end of the season without considering league position. Mourinho's second season remains the only one in the post Fergie era where we finished with that many points. We're not challenging for the title if that doesn't drastically change

Again points doesn’t determine progress. Haven’t we won leagues when scoring less than 80 points? The question is have we improved as a team year on year over the past 3 years? The answer is clearly yes.

 

[Ramshock]

What a thoughtless response. Yes they failed and they fecked up the mood in the dressing room, that's why they're not here. Funny enough they were still able to attain heights Solskjaer has failed to in his time here even with the imbalance and disharmony they brought to United.

Funnily enough your points are erroneous but sure you know that.

 

[United in sin]

Again points doesn’t determine progress. Haven’t we won leagues when scoring less than 80 points? The question is have we improved as a team year on year over the past 3 years? The answer is clearly yes.

Points absolutely matter if you're to challenge teams like Liverpool and city who have both got 100, 99, 98 and 97 points in the last four seasons. The bars have been raised. To win the league under 80 points in this era would be an anomaly for how the PL has evolved so drastically lately, like the Liecester season

Funnily enough your points are erroneous but sure you know that.

If you can't or won't expand on why you think so then why respond? Would you say Solskjaer's highest point on the pitch, beating PSG and clinching his permanent position is higher than winning the FA cup and Europa league?

 

[hobbers]

Mourinho had a much easier path in the Europa league, and an arguably better squad with Rooney and Zlatan.

The mental gymnastics to excuse Ole's failings are always amazing. Better squad Jesus christ.

Mourinho started Blind, Darmian, Mata, Fellaini and Mkhitaryan in the final. Ibrah was injured for the semis and final and Rooney played basically no part.

Ole started Luke Shaw, AWB, Bruno, Greenwood and Cavani.

 

[RDCR07]

Points absolutely matter if you're to challenge teams like Liverpool and city who have both got 100, 98 and 97 points in the last four seasons. The bars have been raised. To win the league under 70 points in this era would be an anomaly for how the PL has evolved so drastically lately, like the Liecester season

Firstly I didn’t say we won the league scoring less than 70 points. Also scoring 99 and 100 and winning the league is as much an anomaly as scoring less than 80 points and winning the league. It’s not going to happen often cause the competition is so much stronger year over year.

That’s why I said points doesn’t matter as much. It’s whether you see improvement. I can guarantee you Liverpool won’t score 90 points this year. City may get close to it but again they won’t score 100 points cause this isn’t a runaway league anymore. When the competition is as strong as this year scoring 80-82 points might actually win you the league.

 

[hobbers]

Why does points matter? It doesn’t matter if you score 40 points and come second or if you score 90 points and come in second. It’s still the same 2nd place.

The difference between finishing second 30 points off the title and 3 points off the title matters a whole fecking lot, especially when it comes to judging whether the current manager has the ability to close that gap or not.

 

[mu4c_20le]

The mental gymnastics to excuse Ole's failings are always amazing. Better squad Jesus christ.

Mourinho started Blind, Darmian, Mata, Fellaini and Mkhitaryan in the final. Ibrah was injured for the semis and final and Rooney played basically no part.

Ole started Luke Shaw, AWB, Bruno, Greenwood and Cavani.

Fellaini was MOTM, he dominated Ajax

 

[hobbers]

Fellaini was MOTM, he dominated Ajax

Shame we replaced him with Bruno then.

 

[United in sin]

Firstly I didn’t say we won the league scoring less than 70 points. Scoring scoring 99 and 100 and winning the league is as much an anomaly as scoring less than 80 points and winning the league. It’s not going to happen often cause the competition is so much stronger yet over year.

That’s why I said points doesn’t matter as much. I can guarantee you Liverpool won’t score 90 points this year. City may get close to it but again they won’t score 100 cause this isn’t a runaway league anymore. When the competition is as strong as this year scoring 80-82 might actually win you the league.

You can't guarantee anything in football, surely you know this. Secondly, for it to happen four times in the last four seasons doesn't make it an anomaly anymore, it's becoming the norm for the big clubs with the best managers

We always talk about the competition in the league based on transfer activity and it barely pans out does it? The only two teams that have raised the bar these last few seasons have been city and Liverpool.

Even last season in the most open league we've seen in a while City eventually ran away with it. I don't think 82 points will be close to enough this season for the eventual winners. We shall see

Shame we replaced him with Bruno then.

Great response!

 

[spiriticon]

I'd love to see him get another chance for us, but man if everyone is fit then Ronaldo, Rashford, Cavani, Greenwood, Sancho, Martial, Bruno, Pogba, Van De Beek, Mata are all fighting for 4 positions.

He'd be lucky to get a game in the Carabao Cup.

 

[Idxomer]

A lot of backups for Bruno if he needed a rest or whenever he's having an off game.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Shame we replaced him with Bruno then.

We replaced him with van de beek. Fellaini was much better for us

 

[RDCR07]

The difference between finishing second 30 points off the title and 3 points off the title matters a whole fecking lot, especially when it comes to judging whether the current manager has the ability to close that gap or not.

History isn’t going to be talking about which 2nd place team finish is better. History doesn’t talk about 2nd place finishes. Liverpool scored 98 and came second. We finished 2nd by scoring only 74 points. They don’t a medal for their points tally. Again I ask do you see improvement in our side over the past 3 years? The answer is clearly yes.

Same with England. Just cause they have a great squad but don’t win doesn’t mean there hasn’t been any improvement in the national side. They have reached the semi finals and finals in two consecutive competitions.

 

[DutchCruijff]

Should have sold him. Surprised WHU didn't meet the £25m valuation and surprised that Lingard has no problem in riding the bench for us, especially after missing out on the Euros.

I have a feeling he will be with us beyond next summer too.

James is gone, Cavani + Mata will also be gone next summer and I believe Martial will be on his way too.

Presuming we do get another #9.

We'll have - Rashford/Greenwood/Sancho/Diallo + Ronaldo/#9. Injury to just two of those and we'll be quite thin. Lingard can cover all 3 positions as well as play #10.

Not that I want him to stay on, would have preferred the revenue, but if he does perform well for us this season then it will be useful to have him around with his versatility.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

That 1st goal celebration by Jessiiiuuu Lingard

Lingard is pure cringe.

 

[Bondi77]

Lingard isn’t a bad backup for Bruno

We forget the fact also Bruno needs rest and doesn’t always have a tiptop day. We need a backup or an alternative to him. Maybe Lingard is a better alternative in this regard than we thought? Have to say I choose Lingard before Mata every time and also before James when he was here.

He is the best back up we have....it's not that hard to work out, is it?

 

[Polar]

He is the best back up we have....it's not that hard to work out, is it?

Suppose that’s why he’s still here, but it seems like the majority on this forum don’t agree.

I didn’t mind selling him (>25m) in order to finance a CM, but I’m also fine with him staying because he is a good (the best) backup we have for Bruno.

 

[Bondi77]

Suppose that’s why he’s still here, but it seems like the majority on this forum don’t agree.

I didn’t mind selling him (>25m) in order to finance a CM, but I’m also fine with him staying because he is a good (the best) backup we have for Bruno.

They think VDB or Hanibal

Suppose that’s why he’s still here, but it seems like the majority on this forum don’t agree.

I didn’t mind selling him (>25m) in order to finance a CM, but I’m also fine with him staying because he is a good (the best) backup we have for Bruno.

They think VDB or Hannibal are better options based on Ajax and U23 form over Premier League form.....makes good sense??

 

[Noc-Z]

Jones signed his new contract before Ole became the permanent manager.

Had we not extend Lingard's contract he'd walk on a free last June. Some may argue we should have let him. I'd agree with that but realistically that's not how we're run.

Pereira is currently on loan with Flamengo till June 2022 I think. Mata will leave by the end of this season but tbh imo we should have let him go.

I know, Ole was caretaker at the time.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

Good to see the Carabao Kid get a few tonight.

Should be flying for the West Ham game

 

[hobbers]

We replaced him with van de beek. Fellaini was much better for us

Not sure what your point is, Mourinho won the EL with a way worse squad than Ole had at his disposal in May.

 

[MadDogg]

Cavani and Rashford and Bruno all press more and more effectively than Lingard.

Rashford? Maybe three years ago, but his pressing and general workrate has been absolutely terrible since the start of 19/20. He's barely any better than Martial in that regard these days (indeed I think Martial was statistically better in 19/20).

 

[Dante]

There are some Souness level agendas coming out in this thread. And from supposed United fans.

 

[antohan]

Rashford? Maybe three years ago, but his pressing and general workrate has been absolutely terrible since the start of 19/20. He's barely any better than Martial in that regard these days (indeed I think Martial was statistically better in 19/20).

We've been running him into the ground and making him play through injuries. I'm not making excuses for him, just think we are really underrating him and not separating the player from the circumstances.

Let's see how it goes post-op and with more scope for rotation. I think we will be pleasantly surprised.

Re Lingard, I've always been on board with him as a squad jack-of-all trades backup. No brainer in that sense, but he won't be pushing the others. He isn't "competition for places" so you need to have starters that are strong performers regardless.

 

[Bebestation]

I hate when people talk down Rashford but ride up Sancho who has barely dribbled past a defender in the PL or a national team when playing for England.

One minute the lack of pressing is a fault of the manager and his low tactic level, the next it's the players being incoherent apparently.

Absolutely ludicrous.

 

[Polar]

They think VDB or Hanibal

They think VDB or Hannibal are better options based on Ajax and U23 form over Premier League form.....makes good sense??

VDB isn’t primarily a backup for Bruno in my opinion. VDB is a midfield alternative in 4-3-3, a formation we possibly sporadically will play. Hannibal is a great talent, but a third choice right now.

 

[captaincantona]

My issue with Lingard is not what he can or cannot offer per se. It’s that his time is well and truly up. He has been given ample opportunity to prove himself to be a Utd level player but his best performances in a Utd shirt have always been few and far between despite being given much more opportunity than others who have seemingly been written off like VDB who, lets be fair, has been given no real chance whatsoever to play consistently in a strong lineup.

Lingard at best will get game time in cups and at the end of matches that should be given to Elanga, Amad, VDB etc. It was like seeing Pereira playing in pre season while Shoretire was on the bench...why? One has definitely no future in a Utd shirt and one NEEDS opportunity to show he has a future in a Utd shirt...but Ole keeps certain players hanging round (Mata, Lingard, Jones, Bailey) who are taking away chances for our supposed up and coming stars (Shoretire, Hannibal, Tuanzebe, Elanga)

Give them a season...Jesus...have two...but once a player has been given a consistent run in the team with good players round them...Ole should know what they are capable of full stop. don’t keep players around for years after their sell by date Expecting them to suddenly rediscover something that was never there to begin with and to become invaluable to the team. Lingard, even if he bags a few goals for us, is still just stealing minutes that would be better used blooding other players.

 

[Bondi77]

VDB isn’t primarily a backup for Bruno in my opinion. VDB is a midfield alternative in 4-3-3, a formation we possibly sporadically will play. Hannibal is a great talent, but a third choice right now.

I agree.
Lingard has his limitations and playing at home against a team that parks the bus is not a strength of his so I wouldn’t play him as a 10 in these games but there are plenty of games in a season when that is not the case and we could rest Bruno and play Jesse there in a fast flowing game.

 

[captaincantona]

I agree.
Lingard has his limitations and playing at home against a team that parks the bus is not a strength of his so I wouldn’t play him as a 10 in these games but there are plenty of games in a season when that is not the case and we could rest Bruno and play Jesse there in a fast flowing game.

The thought of starting a Premiere League game with Lingard as Man Utd’s number 10...after all the progress we have supposedly made since Ole came in...is truly depressing. So many other options with a front 4 that need exploring before resorting to that.

 

[stevoc]

But both of them won´t start all matches, and Lingard may be a better fit for Ronaldo than Grenwood. I´m not saying Lingard HAS to start, but I can absolutely see him being given some chances.

Indeed but where have Pogba and Martial got to in this scenario where Lingard is starting on the left?

Lingard doesn't have to start you're right and building off his 2 starts before Xmas last year he'd do well to match or improve upon that now we've added Ronaldo and Sancho to the squad. I could be wrong and it would be welcome if Jesse was in great form and warranted games but much like last year I just don't think he's in Solskjaer's plans.

 

[stevoc]

Lingard isn’t a bad backup for Bruno

We forget the fact also Bruno needs rest and doesn’t always have a tiptop day. We need a backup or an alternative to him. Maybe Lingard is a better alternative in this regard than we thought? Have to say I choose Lingard before Mata every time and also before James when he was here.

If Bruno is fit he starts 9 times out of 10. For the few that he doesn't if he was suspended or injured I'd imagine Pogba would take over his role and if he was being rested you'd think Solskjaer would give DVB a run out as where else is he going to play.

He is the best back up we have....it's not that hard to work out, is it?

Better than Pogba?

 

[GifLord]

Some of the comments in this thread

 

[devips]

Some of the commenters here - really! Are they actually United fan?

 

[captaincantona]

Some of the commenters here - really! Are they actually United fan?

My comments are precisely because I am a united fan...not a Lingard fan...I would want to see any player who has either come through the academy or joined the club given a fair shot to prove they are proper Utd players. However, if they don’t prove it I would rather see the next in line get their proper shot instead of having their paths blocked by persisting with other players based on sentiment. Remember the way Ferguson shipped out players regardless of stature or sentiment...the class of 92 displaced some formidable names...it was time to move on and Ferguson knew it. Ole needs to be more ruthless if the benefits of our huge recent investment in youth is to be maximised.

 

[Passitlikescholes]

If Lingard hadn't come through our youth system, there is absolutely zero chance that we would have ever signed him at any stage of his career.

That's his level and that's why he should never ever be starting for us nor coming off the bench unless we're up by 3 goals with 10 minutes left.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

The thought of starting a Premiere League game with Lingard as Man Utd’s number 10...after all the progress we have supposedly made since Ole came in...is truly depressing. So many other options with a front 4 that need exploring before resorting to that.

This.

 

[Matt851]

If Bruno is fit he starts 9 times out of 10. For the few that he doesn't if he was suspended or injured I'd imagine Pogba would take over his role and if he was being rested you'd think Solskjaer would give DVB a run out as where else is he going to play.



Better than Pogba?

Exactly, pogba is clearly the best back up for bruno and in fact that position probably suits him better than either of the ones we normally play him in.

Jesse did well for west ham in a similar position to bruno but they played a very counter attacking style that just isn't an option for united most of the time. I also suspect he would struggle to replicate that form over the course of a season, particularly thinking back to his goal/assist stats for the his last few seasons at united