Our least effective player today. Doesn't mean much, mind.
14
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 40
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
It's not happened with three previous managers.
This is it in a nutshell. Then consider the fact that he's playing in the 10.
I can't think of a single CAM who is more effective without the ball. And yet he remains. Mind-boggling.
New thread for new season so just to remind you all:
167 games, 29 goals, 18 assists. How the hell he is still in this club?
167 games, 29 goals, 18 assists. How the hell he is still in this club?
He runs around
He never wins the ball back, he's good at chasing shadows at a casual pace.
I can't really answer your question because I don't think his form has been poor.
Thought he was actually good today. Essentially played as the 3rd midfielder in a midfield 3, the most attacking one, and I think that role suits him the most. People will see what they want to see I guess, but I think he'll be a starter right in that position come Chelsea in 3 weeks. I actually never really had a problem with him starting in a midfield 3 like that or as the 10, the place that I hate seeing him start is on either wing as I think he is a woeful winger. Very useful through the middle though.
Ole was at the stadium. His ability to judge a performance is also probably better than yours.
Thought Experiment: which is better?
A front three of Martial (10 goals), Rashford (10 goals) and Mata (10 goals)...
Or Martial (20 goals), Rashford (20 goals) and Lingard (0 goals)?
It's not always about individual numbers. It's about how those individuals help the team. If Lingard's running outside the box opens up space for others inside the box, that's a good thing. Football isn't moneyball in the way some people wish it was.
Lingard's manager all love love him because they're doing quadratic equations on the game whilst his detractors are still stuck on linear equations.
A front three of Martial (10 goals), Rashford (10 goals) and Mata (10 goals)...
Or Martial (20 goals), Rashford (20 goals) and Lingard (0 goals)?
It's not always about individual numbers. It's about how those individuals help the team. If Lingard's running outside the box opens up space for others inside the box, that's a good thing. Football isn't moneyball in the way some people wish it was.
Lingard's manager all love love him because they're doing quadratic equations on the game whilst his detractors are still stuck on linear equations.
It’s just a shame his running doesn’t open up space in the box.
Watch again. He's one of the best players in the league at it.
I watch him all the time and he’s really not, he’s actually terrible and I’m convinced the odd occasion he does open up space it’s by luck because the amount of time he spends hidden behind players in position where no one can get a pass to him or he runs across someone’s path doesn’t scream good movement to me.
Was it Ole that said the point that I replied to or ChaddyP? Statistically off the ball, Rashford is as effective as Lingard in every department, the difference is Rashford has much more to offer with the ball at his feet, more to the standard of a top team, so there's less focus on that aspect of his game. The point is what Lingard does off the ball is actually pretty average, it's just highlighted because that's what he's best at at the moment. He's a no.10 at the end of the day, creative passing and dribbling should be his main strengths and they're more his weaknesses.
Judging by that nonsense, I doubt anything could.
Would you mind listing out these other players, that you happen to be comparing him with or at least forwards/midfielders who you consider to possess strong movement off the ball. Just for curiosity's sake.
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really?
Unfortunately I can spot good movement when a player has it. See Greenwood for example. Lingard does not have intelligent movement. Constant motion maybe opens some space occasionally but I seriously doubt it’s by design.
No, he’s talking out of his arse as per.
enough said.I'm just wishing we get Fernandes and Ole stops playing Lingard as a starter. He runs around with no purpose that's all he does.
He was busy.
By this, do you mean scoring 4 goals in 2019/20 and barely assisting? If the answer is Yes, then yes, he probably will be firing on all cylinders.
Personally I have a much higher standard for 'firing on all cylinders' but whatever innit.
1 goal and 0 assists for an attacking Utd player since Boxing Day 2018 is good enough form for you is it?
He looks a better player in this style.
We know what we're going to get from him though. Not expecting more than 5 goals.
We know what we're going to get from him though. Not expecting more than 5 goals.
That's fine in theory but in practice if we're going to accommodate playing with a 10 and Martial and Rashford are going to get 20 goals, our needs to do those AND be able to pick someone on the counter with the right ball.
I'm not sure it's hyperbole to say that if you were ranking the 10s that start week one of the Prem season you'd have De Bruyne #1 for being able to make a decision on a 4 on 3 or 4 on 4, and Lingard dead last behind not only the elite like De Bruyne, Ozil and Eriksen, or even the 2nd tier like Sigurdsson, Maddison and Gross, but probably behind most of the 3rd tier decision makers like Lanzini, Mount, Grealish, Barkley and Almiron since some of those guys are young/inexperienced enough to move into that 2nd tier and there's no chance Jesse will.
Can you prove Lingard leads to much more goals from Martial and Rashford? You brought up his running, but then someone could easily point to his replacement being a better creator.
Season before last, he got 8 non-penalty goals and 5 assists. By comparison, Pogba got 6 non-penalty goals and 9 assists this season in more minutes.
He'll be fine.
If you want to judge players by assists and goals then fair enough but I don't and it is clear that Jose, Ole and Southgate don't either. I have already stated what I believe his attributes our. He is a key member of our squad so he gets my support because I want us to do well and he fits in very nicely with our strongest attacking line up.
It is fine to have individual standards for players but this is a team game and what he does you can not necessarily assess with just stats.
If that is what you want from a player then fair enough but I see things differently and can understand and see why he is so important to many of our successive managers.
Can you also link this to our lack of success in recent times? Having such a heavy reliance on a player as limited as Lingard.
Can you see how perhaps a better player in such an influential position might push us further up the table and have us competing for trophies?
He is not the most talented player in the World and we should have someone better in his position, but he is decent and a good squad option. Great workrate and on his day he can be fairly good.
I don't think that is down to one player. We use to have the core of the England midfield - Robson and Wilkins, the best young Irish talent - Whiteside, the wonderful Paul Mcgrath and we won virtually nothing. Sir Alex was our star. I am probably slightly less aggrieved than most people here because I have been a supporter since 1974 so many, many lean years before the wonderful ones.
Sir Alex told Moyes that Lingard was a player to look out for but that he would not be ready until he was 22. That was OK Nicky Butt was ready at 18 but Scholes - the better player in the end - took a few more years until he was a regular/key player.
It is about getting all the pieces together and that takes time after the biggest piece has retired - Sir Alex. Lingard is just one of 18 in our strongest squad. We have in the past bought the likes of Veron and more recently Kagawa and Mkhitaryan for that role and none were particularly successful. It is not as though we have not spent on that position. Park use to play that role to great effect and technically he was not the most gifted but he was an essential part of our success. Mata has done pretty well - some great games.
We are dealing with the strongest PL we have seen since the beginning. We are so dominant in Europe. Man City and Liverpool having watched us have our many days in the sun and are now resurgent and we will take a bit of time to catch up.
You mean three flops and an unproven yes man who we don't yet know will pick him? Rousing endorsement.
Now that Lingy FC hace run out of dining on an FA CUP goal ands pseudo intellectual bs about running around they've resorted to appeal to authority.
No just 3 top managers in the world of football picked him regularly against the opinion of a bunch of internet warriors.
He has been at the club since age of 7 if he was as crap as experts like you say there is no way he would have not left (been moved on) like 100's of other players during that time.
Doing a bad job at man-management doesn't mean they don't understand football.
Still waiting. Or are you just going to make over the top claims like that without backing them up?
It's not just movement off the ball. It's movement between the lines to disrupt the opposition midfield/defence. That's different from somebody like Rashford who makes runs off the shoulder of the last defender.
Players like Maddison and de Bruyne are also brilliant at runs between the lines.
Youre never going to convince people that hes good. Mostly because, he isnt good. He had a couple of good months, and then that was that. His off the ball running is average. Hes mostly hiding, or just straight up ball watching. Mata drags more defenders out of position than lingard does.
the cold hard truth is that he isnt now, and never was good enough. Something that is being highlighted by the (actual) youngsters coming through now.
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