Gary Neville was a defender, first and foremost. There's less emphasis on the technical attributes of a defender. As for Beckham, I think it's doing disservice to Beckham to say that he wasn't excellent technically. He worked hard, yes, but there was hardly anyone better than him when it came to his technique striking the ball. As for Lingard, I think he's decent technically, just nothing special and doesn't excel at any aspect. He is not a great dribbler, passer, or finisher. He does have great movement and works hard for the team.
14
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 13
- Assists
- 8
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
He's just so much better centrally than out wide. I don't know why he's ever put there -- he's quite clearly an attacking midfielder, supporting-striker type of player to me.
Compared with some of the best attacking players in the league
Well he's won me over with the way he's come to the fore in a misfiring attacking unit. Can debate all day about technical ability, but one thing is clear, his mentality is top notch. Doesn't wilt and is largely fearless running with the ball and trying things in attack. One of few players we currently have who seems to grow in big games rather than shrink.
I’ve really enjoyed watching him these last few games, really changed the game when he come on against Burnley and his first goal was class despite not putting away that one earlier which was almost unmissable. Big up ya chest Dobby!
In defence of Lingard he's one of the few players we have that can consistently trap a ball, dribble with it close to himself and not lose possession in tight areas. Athletically one of the few that can run all game without getting tired too.
technical ability? his crossing and free kicks were top 3 I've ever seen in my life and his passing was excellent - he never looked out of place in the CL, World Cups, at Madrid
I'll give you Neville though
This is an example of how changing managers often can hurt a club. van Gaal spent at least a year figuring it out. The same for Mourinho. I think we have wasted him out wide.
In my opinion, off-the-ball movement is very, very underrated. Its easy to forget, but a game usually has 60 minutes of «effective» game-time. How much time does the best attackers spend «on the ball»? Given that they play for a good team, the team might have the ball for 34-40 minutes. An attacker might have the ball for what? Five min? (Agueros number of touches yesterday was approx 5 % of Citys total.)
That means that 85 % of the time the attackers team have the ball its all about his movement.
Harry Kane is the best example of perfection. Technically he is not a better player than Firminio (probably worse). Physically they are the same size, and I bet Firminio is both stronger and faster. But Harry Kane is a lot better player.
Some would probably argue that this is due to finishing/shooting abilities. But Harry Kane also gets about twice as many chances as Firminio (ref expG and shot statistic). The main reason is his movement of the ball. I would even argue that Harry Kane is nothing special in terms of technical or physical abilities. His finishing has developed alot, but probably mostly due to getting a lot of chances for several years.
Other examples of players with exceptional of ball movement is Muller and Lampard. I would also argue that players with good movement develop their finishing/shooting abilities.
Jessie’s off ball movement is quite speciall as well. He is a natural anyway. If he had not been played out of position and been given little game time it would have been even better, and he could have been a world class player for us by now.
Good points about the importance of movement for forwards in the absence of time on the ball. Disagree slightly about Kane/Firmino, yes there is the point about movement, but Kane is now a complete forward I would say, he can engineer his own chances while on the ball and is dangerous from any range/angle such is his finishing ability. Firmino, not so much.
Compared with some of the best attacking players in the league
What's important now is that we don't start to over rate him and lambaste him if he has an off game.
I don't know if this a purple patch or whether this is Jesse's actual level (
), but he's now our most exciting player, for me personally. Long may this continue.Still got hopes that my crazy prediction of the Warrington Wriggler becoming a cut-price Frankie Lamps might come to fruition.
Ambitious? Okay, maybe a touch of the Freddie Ljungberg's then.
But still needs to work on accuracy of passing and finishing when coast is clear.
But that kind of goalscoring ability is rare - and he needs to shoehorn and strongarm himself into the first 11 as soon as he can.
Ambitious? Okay, maybe a touch of the Freddie Ljungberg's then.
But still needs to work on accuracy of passing and finishing when coast is clear.
But that kind of goalscoring ability is rare - and he needs to shoehorn and strongarm himself into the first 11 as soon as he can.
Good post. Lvg was trying to turn him into a wingback until he got injured. When he first got his chance as an AM it was on tour in America and he finished top scorer. Then thrown out on loan when he got home. It’s only really now that he’s in his natural position
Bravo, Sir!
Was he really though? It was one game where our fullback position was clearly stretched as it was Young on the other side and the only option on the bench was Reece James. He also played their once after the loan and again has played their a couple of times for Mourinho. Hardly constitutes to van Gaal was turning him into a wingback.
As I recall it was more than 1 game or perhaps subs appearances before he got injured. But also it was the way Lvg spoke about it at the time
Not aiming this solely at you, it is a comment made by numerous posters, but hitting the keeper from within 2 yards is a lot easier than missing him.
This situation has happened a number of times this season, and usually the keeper is credited with a fantastic save (albeit was good positioning rather than reaction).
Better players have missed easier chances, like the one against Leicester. Eg. Rosenthal, Torres, Ibra.
He was injured first game of the season. In pre-season as far as I can tell he didn't appear in two games and then made a 45 minute appearance on the wing/CM, 12 mins at CM, and then two 28 mins appearances at wingback. So he was playing a bit all over the place just to give him game time. Consider we also only had Valencia, Young and Shaw as first team wingbacks. I can't say I remember anything van Gaal said about it, maybe he did.
He did start out wide and as wing back for LvG, but in the end he used him through the middle, I think. And people started warming a bit to him then I seem to remember.
Good post. Sums it up perfectly.
Yep towards the end of the season LVG said he see's Lingard playing more centrally. Love your post on off the ball movement.
For me the only reason Rashford is struggling is because he is waisting time out wide rather than centrally as well. Rashford has that ability to make the right run in behind the defenders but is currently hugging the touch lines.
One of which seasons he played 24 minutes. Such sensationalist shit, why can't they just say last two seasons.
Till today, I still see people referring to him as Lindegard or Lingaard. Bloody annoying.
Saved us from defeat, a pure freak stopping him from getting a hat trick.
Wasn't really a freak. Pope is the only keeper in the league who's in the same class as De Gea as a shot stopper. They're both very good at getting bits of their bodies in the way of the ball - might look like a freak but, if you get your body in front of the player, there's a good chance that the ball will hit some part of you.
You will not see another ball hit someone's face and spin against the bar like that in years.
Great post. Was going to post about how his movement off the ball reminds me of Muller, another player people say doesn't have "technical ability". Whatever the feck that means. It's one thing to say a player doesn't have traditional strengths ascribed to great attacking players. It's another thing to write them off because of that. The fact that they excel indicates that armchair managers are the ones who need to re-evaluate how they view the game.
I am a lingard fan but to use Beckham has an example of lacking technical ability
The guy had arguably the greatest ball control/crossing/freekicks of his generation.
The guy had arguably the greatest ball control/crossing/freekicks of his generation.
His movement and runs are very good. He has a very good work rate going both ways. As long as he keeps playing he will find the spaces to deliver. It's just that he has to finish consistently. He seems to score some great goals and miss the easier ones
Seems to be growing into a genuine top player; usually after he has a few good games he goes back into his shell, but playing as the no.10 under Mourinho has taken advantage of his best attributes; work rate and movement.
I think he can hit better numbers if he works on his finishing, and first touch within crowded spaces.
I am a lingard fan but to use Beckham has an example of lacking technical ability
The guy had arguably the greatest ball control/crossing/freekicks of his generation.
People dont actually know what 'technique' or 'techincal ability' is.
I am a lingard fan but to use Beckham has an example of lacking technical ability
The guy had arguably the greatest ball control/crossing/freekicks of his generation.
Because people limit the term "technical ability" to sexy stuff like dribbling and Hollywood passes/shots. That the Beckham of United can be labeled as lacking technical ability should be sufficient to discount the term in most serious conversation.
Also if they're a player that works hard then that has to mean they lack technical ability and work hard to compensate.
I am a lingard fan but to use Beckham has an example of lacking technical ability
The guy had arguably the greatest ball control/crossing/freekicks of his generation.
Amazing, isn't it - but it's nothing new. As long as I've been on the Caf the majority has seemed to view him as a player of limited talent who just worked very hard to get to be as good as he was (and always remembering that he wasn't in the same class as Keane or Scholes). The WPOTY voters obviously had no idea what they were doing when they voted him second those two years.
I think you're going over the top about Pope, he's pretty average and once Heaton is back then he won't be playing.
He's a slightly above average player who has big game maturity. His community shield goal was world class. Love the guy. Hope he's always on Manchester United's bench.
The fact he's established that he can be a good squad player here IF he is played centrally and not on the flanks is one of the bright spots of the season for us, he's United born and bred so when we bring in an upgrade in the summer I am sure he'll be more than happy to play his part within the squad which will be very valuable.
I've always remembered Beckham as an all-time top-tier passer of the ball, with excellent vision, and able to put in brilliant crosses and hit a mean free-kick, but without ever being the quickest or best dribbler. At his best, he'd have been a key player in any of Europe's top sides for a good 3 or 4 seasons.
I think he gets forgotten about and underrated because his time at the club ended on something of a sour note, and because he didn't really enjoy anywhere near the same level of success after leaving United. He won La Liga with Madrid in 06/07, and Ligue 1 with PSG in 12/13, making just 23 and 10 appearances in each season respectively, and that was really all of note that he won. I think it's easy for people to persuade themselves that because he was successful as part of some amazing United sides, he wasn't necessarily more than a good player.
Beckham's replacement being Ronaldo I think has also tainted people's views of him, because there isn't really a comparison to be had there. I think the evolution that happened in English football after he left has made people look back at him differently too, because we're so used to seeing amazingly quick, pacy dribblers on the wing, many of which now cut inside rather than hit the byline and whip a cross in, so he looks a bit of a relic.
Beckham was clearly a level or two above Lingard though, but that doesn't mean Lingard is just a hard worker. He's a very good player to have in the squad, and has repeatedly proven himself capable of performing at the highest level.
- Status