[JoaquinJoaquin]

Funny how the posters that shoot people down when he gets a goal etc, completely disappear when he has yet another average (meh) performance.

Yup, been like that all season mate.

 

[caisenma]

One of our better players and has been for a while , don't know why he gets so much stick.

I know we only had ten players today, but he did nothing today. He wasnt poor... But its not like he added anything either.

He's a better version of Young/Valencia, really.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yup, been like that all season mate.

Yeah we all know the ones. Anyhow, he had a good 5 minutes or so after the break but overall he wasn't up to much at all.

 

[Bojan11]

I know we only had ten players today, but he did nothing today. He wasnt poor... But its not like he added anything either.

He's a better version of Young/Valencia, really.

He's not better than peak Valencia. Even current Valencia would at least run at defenders and then smash the ball at their shins repeatedly.

 

[Cheesy]

Was one of our okayish players...had a very good effort at one point. Still quite ineffectual for most of the game though.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Was one of our okayish players...had a very good effort at one point. Still quite ineffectual for most of the game though.

That shot from outside the box shortly after the break was very nice indeed.

 

[Cheesy]

That shot from outside the box shortly after the break was very nice indeed.

Yep, was excellent. Capable of producing those occasional moments, but not usually often enough.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yep, was excellent. Capable of producing those occasional moments, but not usually often enough.

No and his overall play is nowhere near good enough. He loses the ball far too regularly.

 

[facund]

Thought he did a few nice things once he moved out to the left, not a great game (or even good) but one of the few players that come out of it with any credit at all.

 

[Bwuk]

Just screams average.

 

[Amar__]

Funny how the posters that shoot people down when he gets a goal etc, completely disappear when he has yet another average (meh) performance.

He was one of our better players today.

 

[NoPace]

If we were Swansea or West Brom or Palace or whatever and we'd produced him he'd be a useful but not that notable, versatile midfielder on decent wages who is homegrown and who is a decent finisher and can be plugged in when someone is hurt or when he's in form, like a James Morrison or Wayne Routledge or whatever.

Perfectly decent, mid-table pro. I have no idea what else there is to see with him, though. He can't take players on and his vision/creativity and technique aren't special, and you basically need to have one of those qualities, right? And don't start talking about Thomas Muller. Does anyone think he'll be better in his prime than say, Steven Davis is? Would signing Steven Davis help us?

I'm losing my mind with this team.

 

[caisenma]

He was one of our better players today.

That means absolutely nothing.

 

[Ish]

I know we only had ten players today, but he did nothing today. He wasnt poor... But its not like he added anything either.

He's a better version of Young/Valencia, really.

A better version of which version of Valencia? Also, Young's been pretty alright and threatening through patches of his United career.

 

[m1y2]

he had really bad start to the game but tried hard and almost scored, you could tell he was decent when played from left, his position is from the center, from there he won't get the chance though..

 

[facund]

If we were Swansea or West Brom or Palace or whatever and we'd produced him he'd be a useful but not that notable, versatile midfielder on decent wages who is homegrown and who is a decent finisher and can be plugged in when someone is hurt or when he's in form, like a James Morrison or Wayne Routledge or whatever.

Perfectly decent, mid-table pro. I have no idea what else there is to see with him, though. He can't take players on and his vision/creativity and technique aren't special, and you basically need to have one of those qualities, right? And don't start talking about Thomas Muller. Does anyone think he'll be better in his prime than say, Steven Davis is? Would signing Steven Davis help us?

I'm losing my mind with this team.

Routledge was a fairly promising youngster who's development plateaued when he moved to Spurs. Things don't always go to plan and I think it is somewhat rash of so many to assume we are seeing the end product/finished article in a player (Lingard) less than 30 games in to his debut season at the top level. It's apparent he won't ever be challenging for the ballon d'or but he has shown glimpses of genuine quality and a fantastic attitude despite the relative cesspit he has been dropped in to. Your opinion may prove to be perfectly accurate but for some, myself included, he has done enough for me to hold out on making a definitive judgement for another year or so and already gone a long way to proving that he could be somewhat useful, even if that is only as a back-up.

For the record, he successfully took on players against West Brom although I'll agree it isn't really his strength.

Previous players such as Butt, Brown and O'Shea left the club after making considerable contributions to our success, only to become "perfectly decent, mid table pro's" when they left. This is not to say Jesse will have the careers that they did but maybe it is often underestimated how valuable a "useful but not that notable" player can prove to be. Someone has to make up the numbers and it is unlikely that an exceptional talent would be willing to play such a role for any great length of time. A dependable and committed player who adores the club seems like a much better fit for the part IMO.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

He's just plain average all around, but no one better to replace him. Sums us up at the moment imo.

 

[NoPace]

While I was throwing out comparisons he also reminds me a bit of a less creative Susaeta.

 

[kouroux]

He makes so many stupid decisions per game... it's infuriating.

I don't know why he thinks he won't smash the ball at defenders when they're two yards away from him and he's made no effort to shift the ball or do anything to gain a yard.

AKA a Valencia special. The training sessions must be "interesting".

 

[Dargonk]

I actually thought today was one of his better games considering we were down to ten men. For once he seemed like he could actually dribble forward and went past his man a couple of times. You have to wonder why when we have 11 men, that he simply knocks it back every single time, yet if we are down to ten he can keep the ball close and take it forward.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He was one of our better players today.

For 5 minutes after the restart, yes, yes he was.

 

[Amar__]

That means absolutely nothing.

For 5 minutes after the restart, yes, yes he was.

He created two chances all by himself which were probably our best and only chances in the game anyway. In general it isn't much but in a game like this he doesn't deserve much criticism considering he was pretty much our third best player, hardly anyone would do any better(see Memphis who was far worse).

 

[Robbie Boy]

He created two chances all by himself which were probably our best and only chances in the game anyway. In general it isn't much but in a game like this he doesn't deserve much criticism considering he was pretty much our third best player, hardly anyone would do any better(see Memphis who was far worse).

Yup, and have a gander back through the thread, after the restart I posted and said he looked threatening. About five or so minutes into the second half, he disappeared. The whole team was utter shit, mind.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

He created two chances all by himself which were probably our best and only chances in the game anyway. In general it isn't much but in a game like this he doesn't deserve much criticism considering he was pretty much our third best player, hardly anyone would do any better(see Memphis who was far worse).

Get the trumpets out, Lingard was our THIRD best player today. Sorry but he does deserve criticism when he is very average and has shown that in pretty much every game he has played. He seems like a nice guy but if he merits a place in the first 11 based on that then we might aswell have 'the good guy' David Moyes as manager while we are at it. He is 23 years old, Not like he is 18-19 so the chances are that this is pretty much the final version of him, And this version isn't good enough for this club no matter how much you sugar coat it.

 

[Verminator]

Never watched the Brom game due to work, but seeing Lingard described as ineffective seems agenda driven.
He has not got a perfect skill set and some may validly think he should be replaced with someone more suitable, but recently, we have been reliant on his goals and assists.
Inconsistent? Frustrating? Underwhelming? Maybe, but ineffective?
No.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Never watched the Brom game due to work, but seeing Lingard described as ineffective seems agenda driven.
He has not got a perfect skill set and some may validly think he should be replaced with someone more suitable, but recently, we have been reliant on his goals and assists.
Inconsistent? Frustrating? Underwhelming? Maybe, but ineffective?
No.

I can't see one post with the word ineffective?

 

[Verminator]

I can't see one post with the word ineffective?

Look again.

Guaranteed to start the rest of the season.

It doesn't help him and it certainly doesn't help us. No matter how in ineffective he is, he'll play.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Look again.

Wowzers, one post. I don't see what's wrong with the word ineffective? He certainly was yesterday.

 

[Verminator]

Well good for you.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Never watched the Brom game due to work, but seeing Lingard described as ineffective seems agenda driven.
He has not got a perfect skill set and some may validly think he should be replaced with someone more suitable, but recently, we have been reliant on his goals and assists.
Inconsistent? Frustrating? Underwhelming? Maybe, but ineffective?
No.

You left out the fact that he has virtually none of the attributes needed to be a top wide player. Cannot beat a man, Cannot cross a ball and very limited passing ability (unless you count passing backwards or sideways, but if that's the case then Cleverly is the new Xavi).

 

[SSSSnake]

The entire team played shit yesterday but Lingard will take the flack. The norm for this thread.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

The entire team played shit yesterday but Lingard will take the flack. The norm for this thread.

Check the player threads for pretty much everyone who played yesterday, Everyone bar Smalling is getting slated.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Well good for you.

Well, yeah. He has been ineffective in plenty of games this season. I think you're being rather pedantic pulling up a poster for using that particular word. He has had some good games, but far too often, he has failed to stamp his authority on a game and has been either anonymous or wildly inconsistent. For me, an attacking player that fails to perform his duties, can certainly be deemed ineffective. I mean, feck me, Rooney has been beyond ineffective in a hell of a lot of games over the past 2 years. Lingard certainly isn't the only one, but I don't see why you would take umbrage with the word ineffective when it's actually quite accurate.

 

[Verminator]

You left out the fact that he has virtually none of the attributes needed to be a top wide player. Cannot beat a man, Cannot cross a ball and very limited passing ability (unless you count passing backwards or sideways, but if that's the case then Cleverly is the new Xavi).

And you ignore the fact that we would be a damned sight worse off without his goals and assists, an area we were really struggling with before he came into the team.
I thought we missed him versus Watford.

edit: Sorry I forgot to mention your opinion that he can't cross. Apart from his cross for Rashford, the volleyed one for Rooney sprung to mind.

Like I say, effective.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Check the player threads for pretty much everyone who played yesterday, Everyone bar Smalling is getting slated.

I know, right. Crazy that people comment on players in their respective threads. Absolutely ludicrous. Poor ouel Jesse.

 

[Nighteyes]

Get the trumpets out, Lingard was our THIRD best player today. Sorry but he does deserve criticism when he is very average and has shown that in pretty much every game he has played. He seems like a nice guy but if he merits a place in the first 11 based on that then we might aswell have 'the good guy' David Moyes as manager while we are at it. He is 23 years old, Not like he is 18-19 so the chances are that this is pretty much the final version of him, And this version isn't good enough for this club no matter how much you sugar coat it.

He's starting games on merit. It's not his fault he's better than some of the others in the squad.

And players at 23 are the final version? Wut?

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

He's starting games on merit. It's not his fault he's better than some of the others in the squad.

And players at 23 are the final version? Wut?

Ok, so tell me out the of the 25 games he has played this season, How many can you honestly say he has played well in? And just popping up with a goal and doing chuff all else doesn't count.

What players do you know have came into an 'elite' team at 23 and gone on to be a top class player? There isn't too many.

 

[Verminator]

Well, yeah. He has been ineffective in plenty of games this season. I think you're being rather pedantic pulling up a poster for using that particular word. He has had some good games, but far too often, he has failed to stamp his authority on a game and has been either anonymous or wildly inconsistent. For me, an attacking player that fails to perform his duties, can certainly be deemed ineffective. I mean, feck me, Rooney has been beyond ineffective in a hell of a lot of games over the past 2 years. Lingard certainly isn't the only one, but I don't see why you would take umbrage with the word ineffective when it's actually quite accurate.

As I said in my original post, he has a great goals/assist ratio. That is the definition of effective. He as also done a sterling job defensively, in front of one our most makeshift defenses ever.
That you now choose to use the same word shows that you are ignoring these positives. Why?
Can we not have a balanced view on things these days?
I acknowledged that what Jesse lacks may be enough for some to want a different player there, but let's take him on his merits. Good or bad.

Funny you mention Rooney, as Jesse is the antithesis of him.
No pomp and reputation. No unnecessary forcing of play, or dereliction of duty to pursue his Gerrard-like moment of glory. Just boring effective goal getting and positional awareness.

 

[Nighteyes]

Ok, so tell me out the of the 25 games he has played this season, How many can you honestly say he has played well in? And just popping up with a goal and doing chuff all else doesn't count.

What players do you know have came into an 'elite' team at 23 and gone on to be a top class player? There isn't too many.

He's a had a few good games, a few average ones and some poor ones. Like almost everyone in the squad. Care to tell me who should be starting on merit? I'm waiting.

How is that relevant to whether he improves or not? And, he broke through at 21 and started LVG's first game in charge and would have got more games had he not got injured for months. Two, no one thinks he's going to be a top class player. The general feeling is that he can become a good squad player.

 

[Robbie Boy]

As I said in my original post, he has a great goals/assist ratio. That is the definition of effective. He as also done a sterling job defensively, in front of one our most makeshift defenses ever.
That you now choose to use the same word shows that you are ignoring these positives. Why?
Can we not have a balanced view on things these days?
I acknowledged that what Jesse lacks may be enough for some to want a different player there, but let's take him on his merits. Good or bad.

Funny you mention Rooney, as Jesse is the antithesis of him.
No pomp and reputation. No unnecessary forcing of play, or dereliction of duty to pursue his Gerrard-like moment of glory. Just boring effective goal getting and positional awareness.

I'm not really ignoring any positives hence why I clearly stated that he has had some good games. I think you may just be ignoring the fact that even in some of the games where he got a goal or an assist, he has actually been quite poor. He has indeed had some effective games, but he has also had ineffective games.

Not funny I mentioned Rooney at all. There was no character traits being compared; merely the fact that Lingard certainly isn't the only one that has had ineffective games. Here's another one that has had plenty, Mata (still has 18 goals and assists combined but I have no problem saying that he has often been ineffective). I don't know, I'm starting to think that we maybe have different definitions of the word. It just seems that some are very touchy when anyone dares to question Lingard.

The lad has done an ok job since coming in and he is probably somewhat playing on merit given the dire form of others in his position. But personally, I think we need a massive upgrade in quality on Lingard. He's 23 now and has yet to really do anything of note. Even in the Championship, during several loan spells, he has failed to really stand-out. Cleverley looked an absolute star on loan at Watford when he was 18/19 and look how that turned out. The fact that Lingard failed to do much apart from his four goal debut for Birmingham leaves a-lot to be desired.

I just think that he fails to beat his man far too often and concedes possession on a very regular basis. Yes, he has come up with some nice goals but those momets have been overshadowed by poor all-round play (especially in an attcking sense). Defensively, he has been decent enough and he works hard. I wouldn't mind him staying as a squad player for another season, anyway. As realistically we won't get much for him, he hasn't got an ego and he will be happy to be a squad player. He doesn't convince me at all as a winger as I feel he has far too many shortcomings for that position, he might be better suited as a number ten.