I doubt Awb is going anywhere. His only weakness is playing the final ball/ cross. He has sorted out things like back post defending & heading. He can block out & close a whole 3rd of the defensive half with ease. managers appreciate this more than fans.
Jeremie Frimpong
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If tactically he still not what EtH wants then i think its the right time to cash in on him. We always sell players at the wrong time. We hold on to them for too lomg and hope they would come good. The right side need someone that can make runs and help take defenders off of Antony so he can cut in and link or shoot and AWB is not of required standard attacking wise.
With De Gea gone, AWB is now the obvious remaining weaklink in or around the starting eleven in terms of players who obviously aren't good fits stylistically. As impressive as his revival in form is, that isn't going to change and it's a question of when he gets replaced rather than if.
With his stock being at a relative high this summer, I hope we're able to replace him now. But realistically that may have to wait until next summer. And if it does it isn't the end of the world, as he did show good signs last season.
Would be a shame to see Frimpong go elsewhere in the meantime though, as I like really attacking fullbacks. Though I'm not even sure if he's what we'll need if our RB is inverting a lot.
With his stock being at a relative high this summer, I hope we're able to replace him now. But realistically that may have to wait until next summer. And if it does it isn't the end of the world, as he did show good signs last season.
Would be a shame to see Frimpong go elsewhere in the meantime though, as I like really attacking fullbacks. Though I'm not even sure if he's what we'll need if our RB is inverting a lot.
Yep this is what I see happening
£35m is far less than I expected Frimpong to cost. I still think rb is a massive weakness in the team and majorly hurts our ability to threaten on the right.
Personally I would keep both Dalot and AWB even if we get this guy. Dalot has shown he can do a job on the left if Shaw is injured. Can also cover if we have CB troubles and Shaw needs to cover CB.
We also have Malacia, or you prefer Dalot?
Agreed. Especially if we want to run this hybrid build up system with the RB inverting so much. Dalot is mediocre in the final 3rd and AWB is an absolute 0 in those spots. You need a dangerman, combining one of those two with Antony who is a near 0 creatively himself means our entire right side is only useful for recycling possession.
Frimpong & Dalot would get near TAA level destroyed as our only fbs choices without another RCB/RB option signing on top (like timber as back up) for defensive games/needs. City showed why akanji & ake was more useful in possesion than walker & zinchenko even with a striker like Haaland
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I don't think Malacia is quite ready yet. I would prefer Dalot as cover tbh
I'd put this behind the need for Onana, a striker and another midfielder.
Hence why I don't see us actually in this.
Hence why I don't see us actually in this.
Its Real Madrid levels of ruthelessness but i would sell Malacia and buy this guy. Dalot would be my 2nd choice LB
You could even say CB unless we looked at someone capable of playing both roles. There was very loose links to Pavard earlier in window but nothing more came of it.
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We don't have the budget to pursue a RB this summer. AWB and Dalot are fine for now.
If we go into this season with AWB it's another makeshift job. Hopefully we can get Frimpong over the line and move on AWB for a decent fee.
It's why I'm annoyed we missed on Timber for that fee. He'd be perfect as a hybrid that could cover both RB and CB
Crossing for a fb is overrated job. It leads to a total maximum of a total 5 goals & leads to loss of possesion an opp counter attacks. Shaw who has 240 pl games has 19 pl assists whilst awb has 11 in 150 games. Never mind shaw getting to play with Zlatan, Falcao, Cavani, Rvp, rooney, fellaini & also takes set pieces.
One of our best attacking seasons post saf was ole season 2 where Rashford,Martial & Greenwood performed. Greenwood & wan bissaka created a strong right side of a partnership so i dont believe this feeling that AWB is holding Antony back especially after seeing AWBs dribbling & passing through tight spaces.
If we do need an attacking RB then dalot needs to improve his offerings to the squad & malacia maybe replaced by him as our 2nd LB. I do believe since Shaw is now capable as a cb, that 5 fb's fighting for 2 spots is possible even if not needed, especially as dalots capable of covering both sides on top of shaws versatility.
You cant just sell a player capable of keeping Neymar, mbappe, mitoma, saint maxim, grealish & more quiet with relative ease even if he plays only as a specialist in a squad role.
One of our best attacking seasons post saf was ole season 2 where Rashford,Martial & Greenwood performed. Greenwood & wan bissaka created a strong right side of a partnership so i dont believe this feeling that AWB is holding Antony back especially after seeing AWBs dribbling & passing through tight spaces.
If we do need an attacking RB then dalot needs to improve his offerings to the squad & malacia maybe replaced by him as our 2nd LB. I do believe since Shaw is now capable as a cb, that 5 fb's fighting for 2 spots is possible even if not needed, especially as dalots capable of covering both sides on top of shaws versatility.
You cant just sell a player capable of keeping Neymar, mbappe, mitoma, saint maxim, grealish & more quiet with relative ease even if he plays only as a specialist in a squad role.
Have you not been watching football recently? Robertson, TAA, Cancelo, Trippier, James, Chilwell have raked up such number over the last couple of seasons. Just because we have crap fullbacks doesnt mean they are all useless.
Not just numbers, having an attacking fullback opens up space for our attackers, attackers would no longer be double marked.
Is that really recently? TAA is arguably a midfielder now and also was at his best as a RB when playing for one of the most hard working teams making up for most of his mistakes. The only really recent successful bunch is Chelsea because of their CL win with Tuchel but have been crap otherwise off it. Can’t even be bothered about Trippier.
What about the other option with Akanji, Ake, Timber, Mazroui, Blind, white, Pavard, Stones, Tomiyasu, Araujo, Kounde, Kimmich even Camavinga at LB or players like Caceido at RB.
I think the attacking RB that only has the ability to run down one channel and provide a cross is not that strong anymore in the modern game.
An inverted fullback able to take midfield positions or provide defensive stability to the back line as a Centre back or block attacking lanes seems much more useful at the moment.
Let’s see, Frimpong does seem good but he is clearly a wing back more than a fullback - this has its benefits and clear weaknesses especially coming in to a league he has to adapt his game to.
Hold on your horses, have you been watching it recently ?
From those players you mention Cancelo is a poster boy for inverted full back role, James missed half of the season and although he is one of the best wing backs he was deployed a few times as a centre back by Potter. Trippier has been excellent for Newcastle last season but, if I recall it correctly, his assist mostly came from set pieces.
Even Klopp who relied heavily on Robertson and TAA as a source of creativity for years making overloads in wide areas, changed their roles in the last month or so of the season - Robertson stayed deeper to create wide base with centre backs while TAA tucked in to create double pivot with Fabinho. It was the change that got them to their good form at the end of the season and 7 of 9 assists that TAA recorded were from that period.
I agree 100% with @Bebestation, crossing from wide areas is overrated, it leads to a chances of not so great xG for attackers, compared to crosses and cut backs from half spaces, and it's not what football META is about recently.
And yes, in terms of quality, Shaw is arguably at level with those players you mentioned, definitely not crap.
Just because one season Liverpool had to adjust due to a lack of midfield resources, doesn't negate all their success of previous years. Liverpool looked more solid with actual midfielders doing their jobs and TAA and Robertson stretching play and providing space for Salah and Mane as well as supplying good crosses.
Cancelo provided a lot of assists and scored few as well in wide areas before Guardiola decided not to use him. Cancelo didn't do all that from midfield positions.
Let's not take into account what City do, they play with no fullbacks. Ben White played as a normal fullback and got decent returns. Even Zinchenko provided decent output. I don't follow other European teams so I can't comment on that. Cucurella had an amazing season last year. I expect Chillwell and James to do well next season around.
Let's be clear here, I'm not advocating Moyes' style blind crossing from fullbacks. But having an attacking fullback who overlaps can hugely help Antony and Rashford. They would have more space if our fullbacks actually stretched play.
Right side of the attack offered nothing over the entire course of the season. Antony was good in spots but realistically any winger on the right that's not world-class is essentially playing with the handbrake up because the fullbacks offer very minimal going forward. One of the glaring weaknesses last season was the team lacked threat. I would bring in Frimpong for what he brings going forward and look potentially to offload AWB. It comes down to the teams direction.
If ETH wants to maintain possession it's a position that needs reinforcement. AWB is only useful in situations where there's threat from the opposition wide player on his side but not teams offer up that threat at a high level in the league. It's almost like saying AWB is useful for games against the top four, which if is the case is better being sold as the majority of points in the season are attained with beating the rest of the division.
If ETH wants to maintain possession it's a position that needs reinforcement. AWB is only useful in situations where there's threat from the opposition wide player on his side but not teams offer up that threat at a high level in the league. It's almost like saying AWB is useful for games against the top four, which if is the case is better being sold as the majority of points in the season are attained with beating the rest of the division.
100% agree with this. His stock won't rise beyond where it is now and we should cash in and buy a right back who can get involved in build up and final third play. I have images of him in fits as Onana keeps chipping the ball out to him and his Inspector Gadget legs struggle to control the ball. Now we've moved on from DDG, that right of defence with Varane and AWB is going to be a weak point when playing out. I think his improvement has been completely over-egged because he was at such a low base. Still think Dalot is a much better player although far from ideal.
Of course not, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that is the only way to play, to win a football game and to be successful, I just responded to one poster calling out the other one for not watching football recently, when in fact the latest trends are changing in the favour of inverted full backs.
It's a little bit silly to "not take into account what City do" when talking about recent trends in football - unfortunately for us, they just have won f*cking treble.
It's not a template that works for every team, we can also find examples of some kind of asymmetric shapes, f.e. when Brighton played Caicedo as inverted right full back while Estupinan provided width on the left side.
To some extent even we played, and could play again in the future, something familiar on a few occasions with Antony staying wide and Dalot tucking in, while on the other side Shaw provided width and Rashford was attacking half-space with his diagonal runs.
When we are already in the Frimpong thread and talking about roles and shapes, for me it will only make sense to play him with Bruno or some pure wide forward such as MG on the right side as Frimpong is a player who loves to take advantage of his speed in wide areas.
Ps. I disagree that both White and Zinchenko played as normal full backs last season, sorry.
I assume it would be funded by the sale of AWB. After last season, we'd likely cover the cost with his sale.
Not too sure how I feel about having no solid defensive RB though, unless Dalot can get back into his early season form.
City sold Zinchenko, Cancelo & dropped Walker by half games to Akanji, Ake, Stones & Lewis whilst still arguably having the best striker in the world at utelizing a cross in Haaland. They went from being a near great team (losing finals) to a near,pefect team winning everything they nearly could.Of course not, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that is the only way to play, to win a football game and to be successful, I just responded to one poster calling out the other one for not watching football recently, when in fact the latest trends are changing in the favour of inverted full backs.
It's a little bit silly to "not take into account what City do" when talking about recent trends in football - unfortunately for us, they just have won f*cking treble.
It's not a template that works for every team, we can also find examples of some kind of asymmetric shapes, f.e. when Brighton played Caicedo as inverted right full back while Estupinan provided width on the left side.
To some extent even we played, and could play again in the future, something familiar on a few occasions with Antony staying wide and Dalot tucking in, while on the other side Shaw provided width and Rashford was attacking half-space with his diagonal runs.
When we are already in the Frimpong thread and talking about roles and shapes, for me it will only make sense to play him with Bruno or some pure wide forward such as MG on the right side as Frimpong is a player who loves to take advantage of his speed in wide areas.
Ps. I disagree that both White and Zinchenko played as normal full backs last season, sorry.
Its how i feel about creative wingers over the overused inverted forward, the use of a traditional no9 instead a false one. like football is changing, defensive fullbacks & striker 442 partnerships has/will comeback.
Has just extended and apparently has a pretty affordable release clause, with 35-40m euros reported. We HAVE to consider that.
He may be Dutch, but he hasn't played any games for or against ten Hag yet, has he?
As much as I’d like him I think we need to look at a centre back, a long term replacement for Casemiro, a right winger and another striker before we look at a right back.
Has to be Vanderson for me. Looks the better player
Does he ever actually play right back?
I kind of feel like RB is the least of our worries these days.
We need to monitor first, then consider.
Right back is a major concern and it aids the reason why the attack is null of action and ideas. If the midfield doesn't produce dividends with linking the attack atleast the fullbacks can offer some alternatives. It feels like the club are persistent with just enough, AWB and Dalots form as of the world cup respectively signifies them doing just enough but not excelling in their positions.
The club need to totally reshape the attack. That begins with the fullback on the right, another right winger and a left inside forward to rotate or play behind Rashford. Really and truly this is how the budget should have been spent this summer, considering United have exactly the same weaknesses as they did last season.
The club need to totally reshape the attack. That begins with the fullback on the right, another right winger and a left inside forward to rotate or play behind Rashford. Really and truly this is how the budget should have been spent this summer, considering United have exactly the same weaknesses as they did last season.
We should have bought him in summer. A missed opportunity.
Those fullbacks have created more on the right than Shaw & con have on the left. Why is the narrative that the right backs are at fault?
In which case sign another left back, the fullbacks are typically null and void when it comes to the teams ability to progress the ball forward and play into the attacking positions. Also factor in tactically that neither Dalot or AWB are great playing an inverted role, they are filling in a position but aren't efficient in their position. Chance creation statistics for United are in most regards pointless as the teams xG is purely based on half chances.
You can count on one hand in 7 games how many clear cut chances this team has missed compared to the half chances made, the ball fizzling across the box or the midfield shooting from long distance unable to breakdown the opposition defence as witnessed against Palace more recently. The bottom line is many of these players aren't good enough.
fair point but his relatively fair release clause makes him an interesting option and we could avoid making the same mistake as missing out on Kim Min Jae. It also depends on how Mainoo develops. Maybe we might have Casemiro's replacement already. RW also depends on Amad I guess.
He did last season. Not well. All of his end product and noteworthy performances are right wingback with 3 CBs, right midfield or right wing
It'd be like signing Dani Alves and playing him as a regular rightback instead of having him as an extra right winger like Barcelona.
And I think thats harsh on Alves because I once saw, iirc a cup game between Barcelona and Valencia and Barcelona were resting most of their senior players. And in that match Alves was very clearly playing as a defensive rightback and defended well, not getting forward like usual. So that convinced me he could do that role, he just isnt tasked with it and if he was, he wouldnt be the attacking player we knew.
Not seen him but heard good things . Whats Vandersons best attributes? Frimpong stats from last few seasons for a full back/wing back looked impressive. So always favoured signing him.
We desperately need a quality Righ Back. We haven’t had a world class one since Gary Neville
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