Hasn't been his day today but deserved to start after his good cameo over the past weekend.
19
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 17
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 3
At the moment, I think coming off the bench is best for him. Not ready to start for the first team IMO.
:-D
Can't be good for his confidence that any game he has started, the service has been particularly shite.
There's also a peculiarity that some people kind of exempt our attacking players from any blame for their lack of effect in, you know, attacking.
To be a striker for United, you need to be able to make chances for yourself. You don't just wander up front, hang around the last line of defence and walk off afterwards saying, the lads created nothing.
If Wilson was showing short and chasing loose ends and making runs and working, like Falcao has shown in patches tonight, that would be something. He offered nothing, zero, zilch. Incredibly disappointing.
Are you watching the match? He has come deep to try win the ball because the service is so wank. Obviously strikers thrive off of good service and that's pretty obvious. I certainly wouldn't criticise Wilson tonight at all. The service isn't just bad, it's literally non-existent.
The best strikers don't just rely on service. I think it's a nonsense to suggest they do.
It may be a wider point. Wilson reminds me of a Michael Owen-type striker - fast goal scorer, relatively light but will stick chances away. I think that the modern game has moved away from this type of striker being successful - for me, an out-and-out striker needs to be able to bully defences too, a la Diego Costa, Drogba a couple years back, maybe include Bony in this category if he can kick on at the highest level. I don't see the Wilson type making it at a club like United these days, at least not unless he can start contributing way, way more in general play. Maybe similar to how Bojan didn't make it at Barca.
Has he? I've listed the amount of times he's touched the ball in the first half, though admittedly solely from my own recollection. When else has he come deep and contributed?
I'm not just talking about tonight either, more of a wider point with Wilson. Just doesn't do enough.
That's just bollox. He's 18/19 FFS. How can you write him off? I would be far more worried if he were missing chances but the fact is, he hasn't been getting any service. His strengths lie in his finishing, not being involved in the build-up. Not every striker is Costa or Drogba, there are different styles of strikers.
What part is bollox? I've replied to your specific assertion that he has come deep tonight due to poor service, when he clearly hasn't done this at all. You're switching point to me writing him off.
I have said he won't make it at United, and as things stand right here and now that's my opinion. I am more than happy to be proved wrong, in fact I'd be thrilled to be wrong.
But I have major concerns about his game in general to be honest. I don't think there's enough in his locker, and even if his strengths lie in his finishing, I'm not sure he's the type of player to find himself enough chances to be effective enough at that at a club as big as United.
I think you misinterpreted my assertion of him 'coming deep' - I was basically having a dig at how shit we have been tonight as I recall twice Wilson came back to win the ball in sheer frustration: he was booked on one such occasion. That's a dig at the lack of service he has received tonight and his obvious frustrations. I have alluded to the fact that he is more of a 'fox in the box' striker and doesn't strike me as someone who would be involved in the build-up play; ala Hernandez.
How you can disregard that he literally had no service tonight is staggering? There is no way he can be critised based on tonight's performance. At least he has an excuse, he's a young lad with not much first team football under his belt. What's Di Maria's of Flacao's excuses tonight?
There is no way anyone can make any definitive call on whether or not he is or isn't good enough at this point. I would love to see him start in a match when we create actual, you know, chances.
Fwiw, I think the bollocks part is your assertion that modern day strikers all need to play like Drogba or Costa. You do realise that, they are a certain kind of striker, right? Not every striker is blessed with their physicality and obviously will play to their strengths.
Only noticed him when he was booked. Saw Falcao a lot though he was poor too. Doesn't get on the end of enough chances. Must be movement; can't solely be the supply he's getting.
First - his booking didn't come from him coming deep out of frustration. He miscontrolled a ball, went after it and took a man down. It was his fault, and nothing to do with him coming deep, or trying to link play up.
Second, your mention of Hernandez probably reinforces my point. I don't think a player like Hernandez can make it at a club like United any more, I just don't see it happening. Same goes for Wilson, I see him as a very similar kind of player. If United were willing to let Hernandez go, then I struggle to see how Wilson will make it here.
Third, I'm not disregarding the lack of service tonight. I'm saying that a good striker doesn't always need to rely on service to do well. Falcao had the same lack of service, still found himself a one-on-one and had plenty of touches coming deep and getting involved. Wilson did neither of these. RVP came in and had a chance, same lack of service. I'm not saying Wilson should be as good as these right now, but emphasising that lack of service alone isn't a good enough excuse for a complete lack of involvement from a player playing a central role on the pitch.
Thirdly - I'm not saying that every striker needs to be a Costa/Drogba type. For instance, Aguero gets by alright. I'm just saying that a fox-in-the-box striker (your words) like Wilson either needs a physical presence (a la Drogba) or needs to contribute way more outside the box. Wilson is never going to be a Drogba type player due to his size, do you think he can be an Aguero type player? Or do you think he can be a successful modern day Michael Owen?
Where do you see him fit in long term? How do you see us needing to set up to fit a player like Wilson in?
Modern day football is completely different to even just 5 years ago - United are no longer going out against teams and stretching them as teams are set up to prevent exactly like that. If we go a goal up, maybe then we can stretch play as teams come out against us, but when teams are set up to play us on the counter then a player like Wilson is just ineffective. Is this point a stretch? I certainly don't think so.
Yeah I've made my point. I'm not doing long posts all night. I disagree with you.
Fair enough mate. Friday night spent posting long messages about James Wilson after a nil all draw with Cambridge is where it's at.
You'll be back.
Just not a match setup to get the best out of him. He needs to get the space to either run at the defence or run in behind and with Cambridge sitting so deep and so many people behind the ball he was going to have a hard time. When we went up against QPR they had to open up a bit and you can see that Wilson was able to take advantage of that as he was great in that match for me. He is just a young boy and he'll get use to being crowded out and sides sitting behind the ball like that but atm he isn't as you really don't see it in reserve football. Again I think you just have to look at the QPR match to see his talent.
Wilson isn't just a fox in the box either and I find it absurd to even suggest he is like Hernandez.
Wilson isn't just a fox in the box either and I find it absurd to even suggest he is like Hernandez.
I just have nothing more to add. I have no firm conclusion other than he looks a promising player, to me. He wasn't in the game at all tonight as we were atrocious, absolutely atrocious. As I said, I would love to see him start in a match that we create plenty of chances in.
I don't watch any reserve or under 18 football but the lads on here - who to be fair, seem to know their stuff - really rate this guy. Obviously he's a talent. It's way to early to make any definitive decisions on whether or not he's going to make it here. So, all in all, it's just opinion at this point.
Winning.
Yeah, honestly, fair enough. I genuinely hope you're right and I'm wrong, I've no interest in being the 'I-was-right-on-the-internet' guy at the expense of a young English lad making it at United, especially a striker - we haven't had an English striker come through the ranks in too long. I won't add anything else to this reply, I think I've made my point too.
Couldn't get into the game, I don't know why this surprises so many, he has virtually no experience in a true competitive environment, it will take time.
He's started 4 games in his whole career. Not as in, he's only started 4 United games, but he's only ever started 4 professional football matches.
To write him off already is absolutely insane.
The game passed him by, he's young so I'll lay off him. If he was Young though I'd tear him a new one.
He isn't physically ready especially in such a system when teams sit deep. You need to supply him with chances where he can be lethal and interplay to get him involved.
He is not able to create for his own in such games at senior level yet, but then so aren't any of our other forwards.
He is not able to create for his own in such games at senior level yet, but then so aren't any of our other forwards.
Yes he was bad but not as bad as your post!I think right now he definitely suits when the game is more open, he struggles to get space against tight deep defence like tonight. He will learn that though in time.
Everyone needs time to assert themselves.
Let's see how he is in a years time
Let's see how he is in a years time
I like Wilson. I think he'll make it at United. I also think it's fair to say he's not quite ready. He hasn't learned how to play at this level yet. Pretty much every game he plays passes him by completely. LVG should have kept Welbeck this season and perhaps loaned Wilson out to gain some experience. As it stands he's been a bit of a passenger.
Good article on Wilson here - http://www.football365.com/f365-says/9656422/F365-Says
I don't think anyone can really say what he's meant to do. Drop deep now and then to touch the ball? It's difficult to judge anyone other then from deep where offense starts. No one can really expect a kid to look great in a team full of experiences players, who seem to be under the impression the last 20 odd years didn't mean much.
It's easier for a young defender to impress at times. One great header and some nice passes and that's it. When you're up top you are reliant on service and when you don't get the ball so you drop deep where it's congested and it's not really his game. We're so slow that there's always 11 men behind the ball
Unless the team look to play through you, it's very difficult but the experience will be good for him in the long run. Wilson won't turn the team around. The team have to supply the forwards and create chances and then our forwards will grow in confidence. I think most people watch the games at the minute, and know that they can fall asleep for 30 minutes and probably not miss much.
If a young Giggs came into this team, we'd be better but we'd still have problems. A young forward won't solve our problems. We need to sort out the players and the mentality of this team. We are lacking the fight at the minute and that's a team problem. We're not about to see Wilson fighting back and becoming our Messi. People are wrong to expect that.
If Wilson isn't getting many chances, it's because he's not getting much service. It's the same with Falcao and RVP. They're not getting the service. One chance a game IF they're lucky....it's not good enough. If we saw game after game, chances galore. If we saw, great crosses coming in and some fast interchanges, then we could look at the forwards but that's not the case. It's also unfair on the forwards to expect them to get so few touches because of the teams faults and tuck them away all the time. It don't happen.
Players need touches to get into the game. When they are starved of the ball all they're doing is running and getting frustrated. That is not what we want.
It's easier for a young defender to impress at times. One great header and some nice passes and that's it. When you're up top you are reliant on service and when you don't get the ball so you drop deep where it's congested and it's not really his game. We're so slow that there's always 11 men behind the ball
Unless the team look to play through you, it's very difficult but the experience will be good for him in the long run. Wilson won't turn the team around. The team have to supply the forwards and create chances and then our forwards will grow in confidence. I think most people watch the games at the minute, and know that they can fall asleep for 30 minutes and probably not miss much.
If a young Giggs came into this team, we'd be better but we'd still have problems. A young forward won't solve our problems. We need to sort out the players and the mentality of this team. We are lacking the fight at the minute and that's a team problem. We're not about to see Wilson fighting back and becoming our Messi. People are wrong to expect that.
If Wilson isn't getting many chances, it's because he's not getting much service. It's the same with Falcao and RVP. They're not getting the service. One chance a game IF they're lucky....it's not good enough. If we saw game after game, chances galore. If we saw, great crosses coming in and some fast interchanges, then we could look at the forwards but that's not the case. It's also unfair on the forwards to expect them to get so few touches because of the teams faults and tuck them away all the time. It don't happen.
Players need touches to get into the game. When they are starved of the ball all they're doing is running and getting frustrated. That is not what we want.
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He's a good option when games are open and we can counter, but in games when the opponents have 9 men behind the ball he is useless.
so what the other strikers did better? Falcao was sligthly better because he dropped deep more often and very likely was told to do so as he is not as fast as wilson who was probably told that he should try to beat the line and to wait for the long balls which were totally off that day, poor kid made a lot of runs and couldn't get a single ball. Then RVP came on they parked the bus and we had more time to make accurate pass so one of our players picked him and he missed the glorious chance. I saw no big difference. If it was Will Keane he would have surely been told to drop deep also but Wilson for his speed had different instructions, last game he created 2 chances and scored one, unlike Falcao who is unable to hit the sea from the beach.
Although I admit there is big room for improvement for Wilson in terms of ball holding, interplay and airial play BUT he is not useless, he just play different game and doesn't do much worse overall, and I am glad he has got his minutes and gain experience..
I don't get all the hype about this kid, he has had enough game time to show what he can offer, (probably at the expense of Januzaj & Herrera) but has done nothing to impress me. Maybe he is a victim of our 'style' or our overall poor form, but at the moment he certainly is not what we need.
He turned 19 a month ago, is playing in a team where were creating less chances than any time in the past 20 years and has played 564 minutes of first team football which in terms of minutes is just over 6 games and has scored 3 goals and some people are writing him off entirely. Its as if some people have never actually seen a young player starting their career before and expect teenagers to be the finished article and lead the team even when the senior players around them are struggling.
RvP and Falcao have hardly looked 'United class' this season, and they'd probably look just as bad if they came on for short cameos and usually in difficult situations too.
I agree he's not looked as promising as I was hoping, but it's too early to be writing him off. Our team isn't functioning well enough at the best of times and it's unfair to look for such an inexperienced player to come off the bench and change that.
I'm not writing him off either, like most United fans I want it to 'happen', but the truth is it is'nt at the moment, are RVP and Falcao doing any better ?
thats not the discussion.
Blooding a young player annoys those who only think in terms of big money signings.There's no patience for that. Wilson being boringly British doesn't help either.
But of course many of these big money signings were not so amazing at age 19 either...
I know what you're saying, and I even agreed that he's not looked as promising as I had hoped. In fact, I'd go further and say that there's been virtually nothing to get excited over in his play. But then again, who has looked exciting? Which of our players has looked anywhere near the level we expect of them?
You win !
Pretty much agree with this, I said it a few weeks ago that I think Macheda showed much more in his early United career then Wilson has, but hoping we are eventually able to start creating chances for our strikers and then it might work out for Wilson