James Ward-Prowse

poleglass red said:
couldn't that be said of Amrabat though this season.
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I'm not particularly excited about him either, in all honesty, but at least there was plenty of talk about him rejecting other offers because he wanted to join us. Ward-Prowse simply started the season at Southampton until West Ham had some money to burn.
 
Alex99 said:
Tonali was €70 million, which is about £60 million, and not too far off what we paid for Mount. All of these signings would have to be in lieu of Mount, as that's all our budget and transfer strategy would have allowed for.

Mac Allister went for £35 million because he had a release clause. There was no bidding war to be had, and it was evident very early in the transfer window that he wanted to go to Liverpool. Again, there are definite role similarities to Bruno too.

You clearly missed the McCarthy hype then. When he first broke through and when he moved to Everton there were Scholes, Keane and Gerrard comparisons aplenty. He was the saviour our midfield desperately needed. Turned out he was okay for a club of Everton's level and nothing more.

Now, we can debate whether Mount was money well spent, but Ward-Prowse isn't the answer either.
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Mac Allisters clause was reported to give Brighton final say - this was what worried the RAWK faithful because a normal release clause allows the player to effectively choose a club whereas his one Brighton could accept higher offers still. Obviously we haven’t read his contract but it came up in enough outlets and was never refuted.

You’ve kind of relapsed back with that ‘answer’ comment. No, a £30m well rounded CM would not be the ‘answer’, we need to move away from that style of thinking. In JWP’s case what has he always, even at a poor club, done? Got assists and goals from set pieces, what were United worst in the league at (as in 20th out of 20, not just exaggerating)? You guessed it. Set pieces.

A team has 11 players, you need a few superstars in there but just as important are the 7/10 consistent guys who work hard, don’t get injured and chip in throughout the season.

If you want an answer, go chase your tail in the FdJ thread or try and get Bayern to sell Musiala or Real Bellingham and even then they’d probably all struggle.
 
Alex99 said:
I'm not particularly excited about him either, in all honesty, but at least there was plenty of talk about him rejecting other offers because he wanted to join us. Ward-Prowse simply started the season at Southampton until West Ham had some money to burn.
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There was other clubs reportedly in for Ward Prowse, Spurs were definitely linked with him in the press. Like the so called clubs that Amrabat rejected, I feel a lot of this is agents trying to force the hand of the club his player wants to go to. The fact we left it so late in the window to only take Amrabat on loan either suggests we knew we'd get him all along or after seeing the first couple of games it made us make a move for him sooner than we wanted.
 
T_Model101 said:
Very good player who would have no doubt improved us
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I suggested this early summer, and you know, many people on here said that he's not good enough for Man Utd.

He's an excellent footballer, in all aspects of the game.. his application is second-to-none and his quality at set pieces is a huge asset.

So of course, some people wouldn't want a player like that at United. Sometimes we can be a little deluded. How Declan Rice can be valued over three times as much as James Ward-Prowse is just silly. The games gone mad.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Mac Allisters clause was reported to give Brighton final say - this was what worried the RAWK faithful because a normal release clause allows the player to effectively choose a club whereas his one Brighton could accept higher offers still. Obviously we haven’t read his contract but it came up in enough outlets and was never refuted.

You’ve kind of relapsed back with that ‘answer’ comment. No, a £30m well rounded CM would not be the ‘answer’, we need to move away from that style of thinking. In JWP’s case what has he always, even at a poor club, done? Got assists and goals from set pieces, what were United worst in the league at (as in 20th out of 20, not just exaggerating)? You guessed it. Set pieces.

A team has 11 players, you need a few superstars in there but just as important are the 7/10 consistent guys who work hard, don’t get injured and chip in throughout the season.

If you want an answer, go chase your tail in the FdJ thread or try and get Bayern to sell Musiala or Real Bellingham and even then they’d probably all struggle.
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Maybe that is the case with Mac Allister, but I also can't blame the club for not engaging in a bidding war. We may have made contact to gauge his interest and been told no, because, as I've said a few times now, he's not too dissimilar to Bruno.

Ward-Prowse isn't of the quality we need. It's that simple. We do need a well-rounded midfielder, and I firmly believe he does not fit that bill. And it's funny you bring up his set-pieces, because towards the tail end of last season even sections of the Southampton support were getting frustrated with his lack of overall contribution, and instead relying on being a bit of a free-kick merchant.

We're into "what's wrong with the club" territory here, so I'm not getting into who we should have signed and how they might pan out, I'm just 100% of the belief that Ward-Prowse was not the signing we needed to make simply because he's not good enough.

poleglass red said:
There was other clubs reportedly in for Ward Prowse, Spurs were definitely linked with him in the press. Like the so called clubs that Amrabat rejected, I feel a lot of this is agents trying to force the hand of the club his player wants to go to. The fact we left it so late in the window to only take Amrabat on loan either suggests we knew we'd get him all along or after seeing the first couple of games it made us make a move for him sooner than we wanted.
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Maybe the Amrabat stuff was all agent talk, but at the same time, I can't see anything other than a single round of gossip in the papers about Spurs and Ward-Prowse.

The Amrabat deal took so long and is only a loan because of our ridiculous transfer structure and requirement to adhere to FFP. It looks pretty much confirmed now that we're only allowing three permanent signings for the senior team per season, and even if we were to break that this summer, we were entirely reliant on one or both of McTominay and van de Beek being sold to make room for a new midfielder, and Maguire leaving so we could sign a defender.
 
Alex99 said:
Maybe that is the case with Mac Allister, but I also can't blame the club for not engaging in a bidding war. We may have made contact to gauge his interest and been told no, because, as I've said a few times now, he's not too dissimilar to Bruno.

Ward-Prowse isn't of the quality we need. It's that simple. We do need a well-rounded midfielder, and I firmly believe he does not fit that bill. And it's funny you bring up his set-pieces, because towards the tail end of last season even sections of the Southampton support were getting frustrated with his lack of overall contribution, and instead relying on being a bit of a free-kick merchant.

We're into "what's wrong with the club" territory here, so I'm not getting into who we should have signed and how they might pan out, I'm just 100% of the belief that Ward-Prowse was not the signing we needed to make simply because he's not good enough.
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I understand your take as much as it think it’s a bad one. I wouldn’t say that’s true re JWP, my brother goes there every week, they still love him, he ran their midfield and was involved in everything and end of last season ironically he finished really strong, contrary to what you say.

Moving on from JWP as we obviously don’t agree, we need someone who can sit alone at the base of a midfield with a very good passing range and screen our back four. This might be Amrabat but no one really knows enough about him. Then I’ll form an opinion on Mount in the new year but for this transitional season (we seem to be actively trying to play a different way and it’s causing a lot of issues) I’d go Amrabat - Case - Bruno/Mount at 10 which in my mind is probably the most balanced we can field (assuming what people say about Amrabat is true).
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I understand your take as much as it think it’s a bad one. I wouldn’t say that’s true re JWP, my brother goes there every week, they still love him, he ran their midfield and was involved in everything and end of last season ironically he finished really strong, contrary to what you say.

Moving on from JWP as we obviously don’t agree, we need someone who can sit alone at the base of a midfield with a very good passing range and screen our back four. This might be Amrabat but no one really knows enough about him. Then I’ll form an opinion on Mount in the new year but for this transitional season (we seem to be actively trying to play a different way and it’s causing a lot of issues) I’d go Amrabat - Case - Bruno/Mount at 10 which in my mind is probably the most balanced we can field (assuming what people say about Amrabat is true).
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As I see it, there are two types of players that shine in "lesser" sides, those who are truly too good for them and should be playing at the top level, and those that are basically big fish in small ponds. For me, Ward-Prowse is clearly the latter.

As for what the plan is at United, I couldn't even begin to guess. The Mount signing already looks to be a bit square peg, round hole, and I'm fully prepared for Amrabat to be disappointing.
 
The only one United missed to sign in the summer I would say is Madison. Tielemans (free) is a good option for the bench as well.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
The only one United missed to sign in the summer I would say is Madison. Tielemans (free) is a good option for the bench as well.
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Maddison and Bruno would be suicide. Tielemens is lazy and unfit.

I think Ward-Prowse is a shite call, but he'd have been a much better option than either of those two.
 
Alex99 said:
As I see it, there are two types of players that shine in "lesser" sides, those who are truly too good for them and should be playing at the top level, and those that are basically big fish in small ponds. For me, Ward-Prowse is clearly the latter.

As for what the plan is at United, I couldn't even begin to guess. The Mount signing already looks to be a bit square peg, round hole, and I'm fully prepared for Amrabat to be disappointing.
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What’s the difference in your first para? It’s not like we have a stacked CM pool, we just want better players.

Plan is clearly to move to a DM plus two advanced CMs which is what lost other teams play variations of. Whether is can work with Bruno and Mount is a whole other story.
 
Alex99 said:
Maddison and Bruno would be suicide. Tielemens is lazy and unfit.

I think Ward-Prowse is a shite call, but he'd have been a much better option than either of those two.
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Tielemans was brutal for Leicester last season.Out of shape & didn't look like he cared. Now he is whining to the Belgian press that he is on the bench at Villa.
United certainly did not need him !
 
tomaldinho1 said:
What’s the difference in your first para? It’s not like we have a stacked CM pool, we just want better players.

Plan is clearly to move to a DM plus two advanced CMs which is what lost other teams play variations of. Whether is can work with Bruno and Mount is a whole other story.
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Basically, I don't think he's actually much better than some of our current options. He looks good because he's only ever played at teams with lower expectations and surrounded by less quality. Basically he's Donny van de Beek at Ajax, not Frenkie de Jong at Ajax.
 
Alex99 said:
Basically, I don't think he's actually much better than some of our current options. He looks good because he's only ever played at teams with lower expectations and surrounded by less quality. Basically he's Donny van de Beek at Ajax, not Frenkie de Jong at Ajax.
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Your example is the opposite of what you’re saying?
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Your example is the opposite of what you’re saying?
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How? Both of those players shone (to varying degrees) at Ajax, but one was ready for the step up, the other was Donny van de Beek.

Ward-Prowse just doesn't strike me as good enough, and I think he'd end up on the same rung as our back-up/surplus midfielders very quickly.
 
Alex99 said:
How? Both of those players shone (to varying degrees) at Ajax, but one was ready for the step up, the other was Donny van de Beek.

Ward-Prowse just doesn't strike me as good enough, and I think he'd end up on the same rung as our back-up/surplus midfielders very quickly.
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Think it’s the first time I’ve ever heard someone say VdB was a big fish in a small pond at Ajax.

It’s an interesting logic though, to think players look better when playing with worse players…I get the expectations part, that bit is true there is less pressure, but very strange to think think a player would look better with worse players. Case in point, another Soton player VVD: people took who he was playing with into account when assessing him and it was clear, even though they conceded a lot and he was getting exposed, there was a great player in there. Mane was the same.

They might have a more defined role or, more likely, tactics that suit them better but that’s part of assessing a transfer and probably what our club has done worse than anyone. We look at a player like Pogba or Sanchez or Maguire and just plonk them into the team without a care for how they fit in.
 
Apparently West Ham want rid. I'd take him as the fourth CM. We might actually start scoring from corners.
 
Bastian said:
Apparently West Ham want rid. I'd take him as the fourth CM. We might actually start scoring from corners.
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Prowse sending balls into Casemiro on set pieces would be dangerous, if he could learn to stay onside.

We'd just have to tolerate teams strolling past the two of them in midfield 40 times a match.
 
Shane88 said:
Prowse sending balls into Casemiro on set pieces would be dangerous, if he could learn to stay onside.

We'd just have to tolerate teams strolling past the two of them in midfield 40 times a match.
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I'd see it as Mainoo and Ugarte, with Ward-Prowse coming on for Mainoo and Casemiro for Ugarte, in the more important matches. But we seriously lack numbers.
 
I've wanted him for a while, as a squad player. Now that we are utterly dependent upon two midfielders for two midfield roles, both of whom are drained on the 60min mark, we quite clearly need more than Ugarte. If West Ham are trying to bin him, I'd happily take him for a small fee. He's got a good engine, the best set piece delivery in the league, and he's better than the other potential CMs at the club (or players we might use as CMs).
 
I think he's pretty shocking at a lot of the basic midfield stuff for a Prem midfielder (no left foot, weak when he has to retain it in a tight space, bad tackler), so I don't think he'd be a good fit here, though we do need a backup for Mainoo.

But yeah, I'd guess West Ham want money and some team fighting for their lives will want him. Forest's #8 broke his ankle, maybe a fit there on loan.
 
Did notice he wasn't starting, conspicuous by his absence. Thought Soucek might be the one to drop to the bench under Lopetegui.

They paid £30m and I'd imagine they could get that back or close to it from some of the lower half of the table teams where he could be one of their star players. A bit of a leader/talisman for them with experience. Might even head back to Southampton if they have the funds, stranger things have happened. Certainly would expect £20-£25m.

Do we want to be paying that for a squad player who will be turning 30 in November with very little resale value, commting to him for a few years? Not for me.

Besides, wasn't it indicated we're going to be focusing on younger players under INEOS? Sure that was in the press at some point.
 
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On a free it made sense as a squad player, it doesn’t make sense now to pay any kind of fee for him.
 
In on a cheap loan would be the only way this would work. Don't need him in on a 3 year contract
 
Bastian said:
Apparently West Ham want rid. I'd take him as the fourth CM. We might actually start scoring from corners.
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I mean, if we have lofty ambitions of finishing 7th this season, then sure, why not.
 
Forest on loan. Weird, unless it comes with obligation to buy or West Ham have PSR pressure and need a loan fee/wages off the book.

Would still have added decent squad depth for them.
 
I thought he was considered having done well at West Ham last season? Or was it just media hype over a few set-piece goals at a small club whilst ignoring everything else?
 
Antisocial said:
I thought he was considered having done well at West Ham last season? Or was it just media hype over a few set-piece goals at a small club whilst ignoring everything else?
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There's maybe some elements of being a "Moyes signing" at play ?
 
Antisocial said:
I thought he was considered having done well at West Ham last season? Or was it just media hype over a few set-piece goals at a small club whilst ignoring everything else?
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The latter. Outside of set pieces and covering distance, he’s a horribly average player.
 
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