James Maddison

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Classical Mechanic said:
A lot of Pogba's through balls are similar to David Luiz's though. Long raking passes that are more difficult to control.

Not every through ball can be geometrically beautiful like these



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What? maybe when he's playing in CM and sitting deeper but when he was at the AMC/higher up he was slotting lots of lovely passes or deft flicks through.

I'm sure if you look through Pogba's season highlights you'll see plenty of "through balls".
 
I know little about Fernandes but I think Maddison seems like a safer option. Saying that though I don't see him leaving Leicester, one more season and then I'm sure he'll start thinking about it.
 
Acole9 said:
I know little about Fernandes but I think Maddison seems like a safer option. Saying that though I don't see him leaving Leicester, one more season and then I'm sure he'll start thinking about it.
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I think if a club of our magnitude comes knocking, he'll out of the door in a flash.
 
ivaldo said:
I think if a club of our magnitude comes knocking, he'll out of the door in a flash.
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I've heard he is a United fan so you never know. I'd have him taking free kicks over Rashford anytime.
 
Hope we will see more of Fernandes Sunday night in Final. He didn't play well on Wednesday so chance of another look at him this weekend.
 
Adam-Utd said:
What? maybe when he's playing in CM and sitting deeper but when he was at the AMC/higher up he was slotting lots of lovely passes or deft flicks through.

I'm sure if you look through Pogba's season highlights you'll see plenty of "through balls".
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I’m not knocking Pogba, he’s a great passer of all types.
 
Number32 said:
At our system, we don't need Mata's replacement. Mata barely played at his best position for us, signing a player who has simillar type would be waste of talent.
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It all depends on how Ole wants to play regularly next season. A diamond is possible and him in the no 10 role will fit.
 
Beaucoup said:
You don’t need stats to actually see that Maddison is a top footballer and exactly the type of player we need. If the club are serious about bringing in top young English talent with potential to Improve then Maddison and Sancho should be at the top of the list.
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He looks excellent.

I'd just want Leicester fans to weigh in on whether his potentia isl good or one of the best in the league. From the clips he looks ace, but watching a player week in week out is different. His qualities look really good to me. Seems like the kind of player from the league we should make sure we bag.
 
Players like Maddison look at how much game time they will get if they move clubs. He knows he is first choice at Leicester and will be able to play and showcase his talents but realizes that he will be a squad player at Spurs or Man Utd. I admire him that he beliefs enough in himself to roll the dice and see how well he does this year before looking at the big move.
 
jeff gurr said:
Players like Maddison look at how much game time they will get if they move clubs. He knows he is first choice at Leicester and will be able to play and showcase his talents but realizes that he will be a squad player at Spurs or Man Utd. I admire him that he beliefs enough in himself to roll the dice and see how well he does this year before looking at the big move.
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He’s much better than Mata & Lingard, likely to get lot of games time at United. On top of it, he’s not in England senior squad which probably makes him think whether he should leave to bigger club to prove the manager. Higher salary is also tempting him.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
He’s much better than Mata & Lingard, likely to get lot of games time at United. On top of it, he’s not in England senior squad which probably makes him think whether he should leave to bigger club to prove the manager. Higher salary is also tempting him.
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It looks like Leicester are prepared to renegotiate his contract but can never compete with Man Utd in the wage dept. Maybe he will rethink his position.
 
A move to us would certainly do the world of good for his reputation. I mean he can't even get in the england squad atm...and players like delph, barkley and (shame on me as i like him) Lingard are in there in front of him. I think if he performs as a squad player for us, his chances to be part of the england Euro 20 squad will increase a lot.

Sometimes i think our own fanbase is currently underrating the effect to be a player of this great club.
 
Jimmy Skitz said:
he's already said he doesn't want to leave so I wouldn't bother given how hard we make it to buy from us
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When did he say that?

He might change his mind now since he can’t get into England senior squad. He might think he needs to join bigger club like United which clearly better player than Mata & Lingard to prove Southgate to join England squad for euro next year. It’s sad that player like Lingard is above him in the pecking order.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
An individual stat can be misleading indeed but Maddison is at the higher end of every single stat relating to chance creation.

Can you have that?
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It is true that he creates a lot of chances. But a huge part of the chances he creates appear to be of low quality. The same was the case with Downing at Villa (not saying they are of similar quality or talent).

You could easily understand why if the crosses was not isolated (conversion from crosses is usually low). Would be interesting to see a video of his 43 «other» key passes.
 
Swiss_Red89 said:
A move to us would certainly do the world of good for his reputation. I mean he can't even get in the england squad atm...and players like delph, barkley and (shame on me as i like him) Lingard are in there in front of him. I think if he performs as a squad player for us, his chances to be part of the england Euro 20 squad will increase a lot.

Sometimes i think our own fanbase is currently underrating the effect to be a player of this great club.
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hes only had 1 season in the premier league, i dont think maguire played for england in his first season in the prem did he?
 
andersj said:
It is true that he creates a lot of chances. But a huge part of the chances he creates appear to be of low quality. The same was the case with Downing at Villa (not saying they are of similar quality or talent).

You could easily understand why if the crosses was not isolated (conversion from crosses is usually low). Would be interesting to see a video of his 43 «other» key passes.
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Not true. He’s up there on ‘big chances created’ too. Joint 6th highest in the League. He was joint 8th for number of actual assists in the league.

He’s high up on every chance creation metric.
 
Swiss_Red89 said:
A move to us would certainly do the world of good for his reputation. I mean he can't even get in the england squad atm...and players like delph, barkley and (shame on me as i like him) Lingard are in there in front of him. I think if he performs as a squad player for us, his chances to be part of the england Euro 20 squad will increase a lot.

Sometimes i think our own fanbase is currently underrating the effect to be a player of this great club.
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Ekeke said:
hes only had 1 season in the premier league, i dont think maguire played for england in his first season in the prem did he?
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Southgate said the reason he isn’t in the squad is because England aren’t playing with a traditional 10 at the moment?
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Not true. He’s up there on ‘big chances created’ too. Joint 6th highest in the League. He was joint 8th for number of actual assists in the league.

He’s high up on every chance creation metric.
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Oh, I was talking about from open play, first and foremost. I see that I forgot to point that out. Of course, we could need someone who creates more from set pieces too. But would his set piece-play have the same value to us as for Leicester?

From open play he has 49 key passes (2817 min). But only an expected assist of 4,5. That is an expected assist/key pass of 0,09. David Brooks, for instance, has produced only 25 key passes from open play (2317 min). But he has the same amount of expected assists. But for less game time and for a poor team. That means Brooks has an expected assist/key pass of 0,19.

Regardless, an expected assist from open play of 4,5, 0,14 per 90 min is not that impressive for a 10. Its similar to Redmond, Doucoure, Zaha and Ayoze Perez. Okey players, some for poor teams and one in a less advanced position. Less than Jota. Less than Trent. Less than Vietto. And it is far less than for instance Fraser.

That is why I’m not entirely convinced by his chances created stat.
 
andersj said:
Oh, I was talking about from open play, first and foremost. I see that I forgot to point that out. Of course, we could need someone who creates more from set pieces too. But would his set piece-play have the same value to us as for Leicester?

From open play he has 49 key passes (2817 min). But only an expected assist of 4,5. That is an expected assist/key pass of 0,09. David Brooks, for instance, has produced only 25 key passes from open play (2317 min). But he has the same amount of expected assists. But for less game time and for a poor team. That means Brooks has an expected assist/key pass of 0,19.

Regardless, an expected assist from open play of 4,5, 0,14 per 90 min is not that impressive for a 10. Its similar to Redmond, Doucoure, Zaha and Ayoze Perez. Okey players, some for poor teams and one in a less advanced position. Less than Jota. Less than Trent. Less than Vietto. And it is far less than for instance Fraser.
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You cant really look at it like that completely ignoring the set pieces. If Leicester score a set piece and defend they get the 3 points and he's done his job.

Whats more important is that he is even between set pieces and open play. Meaning he's multifaceted with his ability to create something. When we're struggling to break down a tight defense in open play he can set up a goal from a set piece. Or score one since he scored the most freekicks in the league.

Likewise when we arent able to score from set pieces, he's good at setting up a chance on the counter attack and finding a final ball.

That makes it far harder to cancel him out than if he only had 1 specialty. You could man mark him to stop him creating in open play, only for him to score or set up a goal from a freekick.
 
andersj said:
Oh, I was talking about from open play, first and foremost. I see that I forgot to point that out. Of course, we could need someone who creates more from set pieces too. But would his set piece-play have the same value to us as for Leicester?

From open play he has 49 key passes (2817 min). But only an expected assist of 4,5. That is an expected assist/key pass of 0,09. David Brooks, for instance, has produced only 25 key passes from open play (2317 min). But he has the same amount of expected assists. But for less game time and for a poor team. That means Brooks has an expected assist/key pass of 0,19.

Regardless, an expected assist from open play of 4,5, 0,14 per 90 min is not that impressive for a 10. Its similar to Redmond, Doucoure, Zaha and Ayoze Perez. Okey players, some for poor teams and one in a less advanced position. Less than Jota. Less than Trent. Less than Vietto. And it is far less than for instance Fraser.

That is why I’m not entirely convinced by his chances created stat.
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If you’re talking about teams and play style then you have to acknowledge that he played under the austere Puel for most of the season but looked a lot better once Rogers came in.

Why would opportunities from set pieces not be good for us either?

Then you have to factor his age and development curve. Perfectly logical to expect him to get better.
 
Ekeke said:
You cant really look at it like that completely ignoring the set pieces. If Leicester score a set piece and defend they get the 3 points and he's done his job.

Whats more important is that he is even between set pieces and open play. Meaning he's multifaceted with his ability to create something. When we're struggling to break down a tight defense in open play he can set up a goal from a set piece. Or score one since he scored the most freekicks in the league.

Likewise when we arent able to score from set pieces, he's good at setting up a chance on the counter attack and finding a final ball.

That makes it far harder to cancel him out than if he only had 1 specialty. You could man mark him to stop him creating in open play, only for him to score or set up a goal from a freekick.
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Well, I did not exactly compare him to Kevind de Bruyne either.

And why man mark someone at open play when his stat from open play are, in fact, very average?
 
andersj said:
Well, I did not exactly compare him to Kevind de Bruyne either.

And why man mark someone at open play when his stat from open play are, in fact, very average?
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Why wouldnt they be? I mean, they arent. He's still one of the bunch of players near the top in the league. But why would he be trying to create as much as possible from open play if Leicester have scored from a set piece and the points are secure?
 
Classical Mechanic said:
If you’re talking about teams and play style then you have to acknowledge that he played under the austere Puel for most of the season but looked a lot better once Rogers came in.

Why would opportunities from set pieces not be good for us either?

Then you have to factor his age and development curve. Perfectly logical to expect him to get better.
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True. That is why I compared him to players at teams at similiar level and playing style. Alot of players I (and probably you?!) think he should do better than given the circumstances.

And set pieces would be good for us too. But then we would have to give them more work. I’m sure Mata would provide a bunch of key passes and assists from set pieces at Leicester under Puel.

Age and development is a good argument, I agree.
 
Ekeke said:
Why wouldnt they be? I mean, they arent. He's still one of the bunch of players near the top in the league. But why would he be trying to create as much as possible from open play if Leicester have scored from a set piece and the points are secure?
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Have Leicester spent most of the time this season defending a lead? Or more than the teams I mentioned? Watford and Wolves? Weird reasoning..
 
andersj said:
Have Leicester spent most of the time this season defending a lead? Weird reasoning..
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No, the point is if you for some reason just ignore all of the chances hes set up from set pieces you cant just look at what hes done from open play and think thats a fair comparison to other players who are only creating from open play. If he really didnt do all that work from set pieces, then he could put all of that effort and energy into creating from open play instead. So its not the same at all.

But just fyi he's 1.8 key passes from general play per 90 mins. And 1.5 from set pieces. So he's still more general play than set pieces, its just those are on top and he's probably the best at them in the league.
 
andersj said:
True. That is why I compared him to players at teams at similiar level and playing style. Alot of players I (and probably you?!) think he should do better than given the circumstances.

And set pieces would be good for us too. But then we would have to give them more work. I’m sure Mata would provide a bunch of key passes and assists from set pieces at Leicester under Puel.

Age and development is a good argument, I agree.
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I agree on that. The player he is right now wouldn’t be worth £60m.

He has a lot of other attributes that the other players you mentioned don’t though. He’s a very tidy player who can operate in tight spaces, can dribble, has good passing ability and is excellent at winning the free kicks he creates from. Let’s not forget that he scored more free kicks than any other player last season too.
 
Ekeke said:
No, the point is if you for some reason just ignore all of the chances hes set up from set pieces you cant just look at what hes done from open play and think thats a fair comparison to other players who are only creating from open play. If he really didnt do all that work from set pieces, then he could put all of that effort and energy into creating from open play instead. So its not the same at all.

But just fyi he's 1.8 key passes from general play per 90 mins. And 1.5 from set pieces. So he's still more general play than set pieces, its just those are on top and he's probably the best at them in the league.
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I see your point if you imply that since he takes the corner he will have less of a chance to create something in the next 5 second after the corner (and thereby benefitting from an attacking position). On the other hand, it is worth noting that Ryan Fraser, an average player from a poor team, who also takes corner and free kicks, created significantly more chances from open play.

And I am aware that he has a lot of key passes from general play. My point, and something that surprised my when I saw it, is that several of these key passes will have to be of low quality. Expected assist of 4,5 is not that impressive and considering the amount of key passes I would have expected more.

His xGBuildup90 is also very average.

(But I really like Maddison. I even made a thread about him 1,5 year ago. We should have gone for him then.)
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I agree on that. The player he is right now wouldn’t be worth £60m.

He has a lot of other attributes that the other players you mentioned don’t though. He’s a very tidy player who can operate in tight spaces, can dribble, has good passing ability and is excellent at winning the free kicks he creates from. Let’s not forget that he scored more free kicks than any other player last season too.
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Yes. It just that I would expect these qualities (and number of key passes) to make him produce more assists than most of them.
 
Lots of people making out like he'd be a Mata/Lingard replacement, but neither of those fit into our team well as it stands, ignoring their ability.

Why can't he be the right CM? It's been yet another nothing position for us for years. It's crying out for a player that can really pass and move there.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
It is because he decided to stay with Leicester next season. That actually shows you about how difficult the rebuild project OGS has on hand.
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Or how tough it is to sign players from other PL teams, especially clubs with big ambitions
 
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