Bloody hell, please don't let Nolan near Bond.
Film James Bond: No Time to Die
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
Cue Hans Zimmer’s earsplitting soundtrack.
I mean, if they sacked Boyle over creative differences, there’s next to no chance they’d let someone as controlling as Nolan near it... so I wouldn’t worry
But personally I wanna see the franchise shook up a bit.. Im not a Nolan fanboy, but I’d be interested to see what he did with a Bond film. He clearly loves them, and references them constantly. I don’t think he’d push the envelope too far if given the reigns. Plus it’d be guaranteed to make an obscene amount of money, so he’d be given a ridiculous budget to do whatever insane practical stunts he wanted...and isn’t that what we want from Bond?
I’d much rather him than another jobbing Director just towing the line. As per 90% of Bond films. I really wanted to see what Boyle did... feck it, I’d give it to Tarantino if he wanted it! I mean, before Mendes, can you name a single Bond Director? I think this era is our first chance to make some standalone prestige Bond films with big actors and big directors...
Save that.... give it Matthew Vaughn (Vaughny) till the end of the season.
Last edited:
He's 5 foot 7. He'll be dwarfed by all the women in heels that he's trying his misogyny on with. It'll be like watching a kid at their prom, plus he's ridiculously babyfaced.
I wouldn't be surprised if they rebooted the franchise once again to redo classic Fleming novels; not Casino Royale (too great and too recent) but Dr.No, Live and Let Die, Goldfinger, etc. in a 21st Cent setting.
Or probably not. An idea, anyway.
Or probably not. An idea, anyway.
I just don't wanna have to turn the volume up and down 183,000 times when I watch it at home.
Given the way Bond 24 ended, I would guess that Bond 25 opens with Lea Seydoux being killed (in something of an echo of OHMSS's ending, I guess). Beyond that I'm not sure what comparison points there would likely be.
Aidan Turner will be the next Bond I think.
I'm saying Chadwick Boseman. Or Daniel Kaluuya if you can't stomach an American.
Richard Madden seems like a good shout.
Why make Bond black though? Why not just create a new awesome black character that can be introduced in the next Bond film and then give him his own separate franchise?
Now you're thinking like a Marvel exec.
It’s all about the franchise brother
Hollywood should get more originality into its boardroom meetings and create new and exciting roles for black actors rather than race changing characters that the author specifically wrote as being white.
I’d introduce Idris Elba as 009. Make him kick ass and then give him his own separate movie.
It’s all about the franchise brother
Hollywood should get more originality into its boardroom meetings and create new and exciting roles for black actors rather than race changing characters that the author specifically wrote as being white.
I’d introduce Idris Elba as 009. Make him kick ass and then give him his own separate movie.
In the end I don't see why it matters. If I remember rightly Bond was an orphan who didn't fit in in the fancy public school he went to, loner, talented blah blah blah. Well that would all work for a black character too, would even be a good reason for him not to fit in.
The color of Bond's skin is utterly irrelevant to the current iteration of the character. If a black actor is the best fit then there's no reason not to give them the role.
The big question for the post-Craig Bond films is what tone they go for, not which actor. It's hard to do anything fresh with the classic Bond tropes and cliches but it would also be difficult to ape the Craig-era's initial trick of trying a grittier approach to the action sequences.
It might be nice if they tried to go for an actively darker tone in the way License To Kill half-tried to. Otherwise I'm not sure what else there is to do with Bond.
The big question for the post-Craig Bond films is what tone they go for, not which actor. It's hard to do anything fresh with the classic Bond tropes and cliches but it would also be difficult to ape the Craig-era's initial trick of trying a grittier approach to the action sequences.
It might be nice if they tried to go for an actively darker tone in the way License To Kill half-tried to. Otherwise I'm not sure what else there is to do with Bond.
As a white man I have no say in this, and I wouldn't give a shit if Bond was white or black, but following the Ariel outrage if you ignore the ludicrous outrage from white people and read the input of black people, it does appear that the preference is what Garethw said that studios create new badass characters who were always meant to be black rather than just changing a race. I saw a lot of black people speaking from the heart saying that while it's great that there's more representation, it feels almost like appeasement when a previously white character is just made black almost like 'there you go, we gave you something, be happy and quieten down, you got a win' when it would be preferential to see great new characters created who are badass and black where that was always the intention, and the story and background are written specifically to reflect black culture. Switching a race can be the easy way out 'oh he's just latino now' etc.
I'm happy either way as long as we get more representation, but it's food for thought that there are more perspectives on that subject that don't come from angry white racists who can't deal with change.
I'm happy either way as long as we get more representation, but it's food for thought that there are more perspectives on that subject that don't come from angry white racists who can't deal with change.
Didn't even know Madden was short tbh, doesn't really seem obvious in either of his big roles. Craig is around the same height and it was never a problem, for me at least .. special servicey types are often short and stocky.
Egerton is definitely too baby faced though .. and if Madden is too short then Egerton definitely is, met him a couple of times in my old Uni town and he's tiny.
I'd love to see Elba play an old, grizzled Bond but it wouldn't really work without setup. Hiddleston for me ticks basically every box except for physicality, he's simply too lanky and skinny to be believable as some action hero/fighting machine, easy to work on though. Would be my choice if he could pack on a bit of muscle beforehand.
Egerton is definitely too baby faced though .. and if Madden is too short then Egerton definitely is, met him a couple of times in my old Uni town and he's tiny.
I'd love to see Elba play an old, grizzled Bond but it wouldn't really work without setup. Hiddleston for me ticks basically every box except for physicality, he's simply too lanky and skinny to be believable as some action hero/fighting machine, easy to work on though. Would be my choice if he could pack on a bit of muscle beforehand.
They can use all sorts of camera tricks to sort that out .. how do you think Tom Cruise has had a successful career as an action hero?
Build is far more important than height for these kind of roles. I found it way less believable when clearly not particularly in great shape but tall blokes were playing Bond than if someone 5'7 but built like a soldier was in the role. Craig isn't particularly tall at all but shit, he looked like someone who could genuinely be in the special forces.
Counterpoint: Why make 4000 versions of the same film, with the same character, under the same auspices, again!? I mean genuinely, what’s the point of it? We have 24 Bond films about a posh white sociopathic English spy already - why do we legitimately need another one? For any other reason than blind adherence to tradition?
We’ve surely had enough versions of Bond, or Batman, or Spider-Man by now to start changing shit up? No?
In fact isn’t the newest, most well revered and Oscar winning version of Spider-Man the one that focused on the newly invented Afro Latino version, and his adventures with a meta, 4th wall breaking cartoon pig!?
.... but yeah, sure, let’s have another 50 years and another 25 films of identical by the numbers Bond films....
One kinda serious good one > one slightly wink wink but still alright one > one terrible camp disaster > one even more terrible camp disaster > full recast, followed by another kinda serious good one... rinse and repeat.
The real question is why you wouldn’t want a black Bond? How fecking boring are you to just want an endlessly repeating cycle of limited stories about the same mid-30s white sociopathic Bond?... seriously... Why? Wouldn’t even a singular experimental diversion be at least somewhat interesting, after over 50 years of this shit!?
Forget race, just from a writing perspective, aren’t there a lot more interesting story avenues to explore by doing something different with it? And of all the franchises to chose, isn’t the one that’s already on its 24th fecking iteration probably the most fitting and uncontroversial choice imaginable?
Last edited:
It is an interesting perspective but ultimately I would likely care much less about the various takes on having a black Bond (from either side) than I would about having a version of the character that actually manages to be entertaining.
I mean while the perspective you mention is valid, how much should I actually care about it if we've already accepted that what actually matters is how well the actor fits the role? If a black actor would make the best Bond, should a preference among some black people that he be a different character instead matter in the slightest? The point of having a black actor in the role would be to have the best version of the character, not the best version of representation.
Last edited:
I agree with you, I was just commenting on the discussion overall. It makes no difference to me, but then again I'm not the one with reason to care about it either way so my opinion is irrelevant.
Is Casino Royale, but with Idris Elba,
a worse interpretation of James Bond than Die Another Day with Pierce Brosnan is? ... and if you think so, why?
a worse interpretation of James Bond than Die Another Day with Pierce Brosnan is? ... and if you think so, why?
Yeah, that was my thinking too
Ian Fleming based the character on his own experiences and Bonds early life mimicked his own upbringing too. In other words that of a privileged, privately educated rich white boy.
How many black people do you know that could relate to that?
If you make James Bond black then you need to completely re-write his origins. Which begs the question why not just create a new character, that will appeal to black people without the baggage of all the race swap bollocks?
The spiderman comparison is not relevant at all. Miles Morales Is a brand new character that becomes spiderman. No race swapping of Peter Parker, a brand new character that Latino/black people can relate to.
Did I not say exactly the same thing regarding Bond? Introduce a new black 00 agent in the next Bond film and then give him his own franchise to run with.
Most black people that I speak with want better representation. They want new characters and hero’s to be created that represent them, they don’t want a 50 year old character race swapped.
Elba or Cavill for me.
Him or Luke Evans would be great I think.
Evans would probably only have 2 films in him though before he kinda aged out compared to Cavill who could probably do 3.
Tom Cruise for me, as a one off. It'd be hilarious, the outrage would be really something, but I think he'd actually pull it off somehow.
It ends up breaking Bond box office records just from people going to see it to be mad.
Firstly no studio would take such a chance because of the fear no one would go and watch. And secondly if a movie/franchise did get made......no one would go and watch it. "I KNOW WHAT THAT IS!" is how the general public think with reguard to movies.
These big movie franchise be it Marvel movies , Disney remakes or the Bond films aren't made to say anything interesting, to do anything artistic etc. They existed to get a mass audience to pay and sit down for around 2 hours.
So any discussion of well the oringial writer actually based the character off this or simply race swapping isn't a good form of representation, is giving both the franchises and the system that produces them far too movie credit. The most interesting and artistic thing these movies can do is simply normalising to a mass white audience that there are other people in the world with different skin colours.
Well, Marvel introduced Black Panther in Civil War and he was generally seen as one of the most awesome things in that movie. His standalone movie then broke box office records, so I certainly don’t think that people wouldn’t go and see brand new black people led franchises.
People are more likely to stay away from a movie series if they feel that the race of an established character is swapped to purely be politically correct.
The stand alone Black Panther move is part of franchise - The Marvel Universal(Not to mention it's a comic book movie, so it's basically a franchise on top of another franchise), plus it had a history in comics before hitting the screen. It wasn't a brand new at all.
Regardless of who stars in the movie or what the movie is about if it isn't a nostalgia remake,
established franchise, comic book movie or star wars people aren't going to see it.
Link ? I'm not sure there's anything to suggest this is true.
Last edited:
Probably should have worded that better in fairness. Take the recent gender swap remakes such as Ghostbusters, overboard and the all women oceans 11 film. They all flopped. People don’t want their favourite films/characters swapped for the sake of political correctness.
The Oceans movie didn't swap any genders.
Edit: not seen the others so no idea how they worked
Oceans 8 is what I think he’s talking about.
Yes, which didn't swap any genders.
They didn't make Danny Ocean a woman, they made a spin off featuring his (if I remember correctly) sister.
Correct. I’m not saying they swapped, mind you. I just know what movie he’s referencing.
I’d imagine he’s saying nobody wanted to watch an Ocean’s flick where the heist was carried out by women and not men.
Big problem with that argument though is that it grossed something like $300 million at the box office vs a $70 million budget.
I know what film he was referencing, that's why I pointed out to him that Oceans 8 didn't swap any genders which was what he was bemoaning
What it actually did was introduce new characters for a spin off which is exactly what he's advocating for.
Indeed it did. It was pretty good, too.
Elba is too old and Hiddles/Fass just aren't believable as being able to fight dirty and kick the shit out of East European henchmen. They just don't have that innate hardness and would be like a revamp of Moore's Bond.
I stand corrected mate. I haven’t seen it and I was told it was an all female reboot.