Oh yes, they would run riot. And Zorc and Watzke know that, too, hence they wouldn't have leaned so far out the window if there was any remaining possibility of selling him. You'd either have to place a really crazy fee (140+m) or have Sancho enter a strike. I lack the imagination to see either of that happening.
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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Oh yes, they would run riot. And Zorc and Watzke know that, too, hence they wouldn't have leaned so far out the window if there was any remaining possibility of selling him. You'd either have to place a really crazy fee (140+m) or have Sancho enter a strike. I lack the imagination to see either of that happening.
Do you think they’d now reject 120 mil?
I don't care too much if he stays in the league or not. Didn't even do so regarding Havertz, expected him to leave and am excited to watch him for Chelsea. But this is not going to happen. Negotiating tactics is one thing but the announcements Dortmund made could only be regarded as trolling their own fans without any need to do so if he really leaves. He's staying and next season there might be a bidding competition with Barcelona searching a replacement for Messi etc.
I wonder if the lack of interest from anybody else is whats slowing us down here.
We're in absolutely no rush, because we know he's not going anywhere else this summer. We saw with VDB, as soon as somebody else came sniffing, we got the deal done quickly.
Would be nice for Barca to start having a look
We're in absolutely no rush, because we know he's not going anywhere else this summer. We saw with VDB, as soon as somebody else came sniffing, we got the deal done quickly.
Would be nice for Barca to start having a look
Yes, I think they'd also reject more. I don't think they ever wanted to sell him, the only reason this transfer was even possible was because they made a promise to let him go for a certain fee until a certain date. Now they can happily block every offer without upsetting the player.
It is interesting how this saga has played out though. It seems like German media is regarding this as completely over. And English media is reporting it as active discussions.
Wirh regards to the price, if the reports are to be believed, then Sancho has apparently been promised he can leave if a 120m offer comes in.
Interesting, you might be right, maybe there was a deadline for it, but it is telling that they have still left Sancho out of some marketing things, and by some reports this deadline was never communicated to united.
I think money does talk and if United offered 120 then I think that’s hard to say no to, but you might be right.
No team wants to sell their best players. Do you think Leverkusen said lets sell Havertz? If he went for £70m upfront. In this climate no club is going to say no to £100m
Happy Sancho Day! 
Why? What's happening?
We'll get big news this week. I think we'll get a couple more over the line, just waiting on a few outgoings (Romero, Smalling) for funds.
They say happy Sancho day every day...
Yeah, it's basically dead in Germany. There aren't even reports about it. Some papers made a little fun about United because they thought it was so unrealistic that this may happen in the future yet the environment in Manchester still believes it's on.
My theory is that Dortmund offered the contract extension and made a gentlemen's agreement with Sancho that he could leave the next season if someone paid 120m until then and then. However, I also think Sancho is less eager to move since he's speculating that he could get a better deal once Corona is overcome. He sure as hell doesn't seem to try to force Dortmund to sell him like Dembele and Aubameyang did.
Thing is, Dortmund is in no financial trouble. Nowadays they're a very healthy club and could even afford to buy some players like Bellingham this season. They wouldn't have done that if they needed the Sancho money to finance him. So why sell him if he's contracted until 2023? Sure, it's a little bit risky since nobody really knows how things develop in the upcoming season. But I guess they're quite sure that they can sell him for a similar amount then. An additional year of Sancho could easily be worth 20-30m for them.
No, no team wants to sell their best players but at some point you have to. Havertz was contracted until 2022, Sancho is until 2023. That gives Dortmund more leeway than us. Also, Dortmund is a much better team than we currently are and they pay bigger salaries so it's easier for them to convince players to stay for another season. And we would've said no to 80m. We got exactly what we wanted in that 100m deal despite Corona. Dortmund won't settle for less, especially since they are under less pressure. From a rational perspective, I really don't believe in this transfer in this summer anymore. Far too many crazy things would have to happen.
it's in the spirit of Groundhog day from what I can tell . Every day is Sancho day
There is no deadline, that's just what they are saying to the media. You don't really know more than any of us, you are just reading the local media and going by that. If there really was an official deadline them negotiations with the third party would be over.
I doesn’t seem to yet, but he forced his way out of City and maybe if we do stump up the 120 million and Dortmund day no then he might try. Who knows. Also I still find it crazy that people think next season everyone will have more money. It’s looking like we won’t be seeing fans for the majority of the season and if we do it will be at a very reduced rate. Clubs will not suddenly be recouping all of their losses. It will be another year if reduced revenue and therefore reduced transfer budgets.
Pretty much this.
Add on to the fact that we seem to have been chasing Sancho for well over a year now (maybe more if some sources are believed) so theres probably been no massive surprises in terms of what Utd are expecting to pay either. They saw how much Dembele went for and knew what Dortmund would want. I highly doubt they walked into negotiations actually thinking they could get him on the cheap.
It‘d be frankly stupid for Utd to back out of it at this point, because the payment structuring isnt quite to their liking?
Alright muppets I’m back now, it’s on, I’m still calm because why wouldn’t I be? It’s simply a matter of time.
But you have to pay attention to what exactly they are saying. They couldn't have rejected it more forcefully than they did. Putting all their integrity on the line. If they were still open for a sale they wouldn't have said what they said.. it's basic knowledge of human nature. You know normal people don't want to piss off their fans, lose face and look like complete clowns. So Dortmund wont sell unless Sancho forces his way out.
I agree on the wages and Dortmund having a better team, that doesn't stop players leaving because really Dortmund are not title challengers anyway.
Leverkusen wanted £100m for him but settled for £70m upfront and add ons.
If United can get a a structure of the fee whilst Dortmund still getting £108m then I see no reason for it to be rejected. the only thing is do Manutd have the money?
With clubs unsure of what will happen with crowds, I can see why paying that money can be troublesome. However; Dortmund rely on selling players every summer to maintain their books. Since January they have spent £25m on Haaland, £25m on Can and £30m on Bellingham so they will be looking to recoup as they also recorded a £45m loss?
Back at work today for the first time in months, so less likely to be posting such numbers
The rest of you muppets...keep the dream alive!
That doesn't go well together
At least to Dortmund, the deadline seems to be important. What I know is how far Zorc has leaned out of the window. And I know Dortmund fans, I know the current sentiment among them, especially regarding the inner conflict of being labelled a selling club although they want to finally play with the big boys. This isn't comparable to the Dembele and Aubameyang situations in the past. The way Zorc and Watzke have positioned themselves, there is no going back. The whole club would go into meltdown if they sold Sancho at this stage. And they would've poured salt into the wounds of their own fans without any necessity. I doubt most of you guys did knew the names Zorc and Watzke before this transfer saga began, I've followed them very closely since Klopp's first seasons. If they communicate that strictly that a player stays, he's staying. As I said, this is in no way comparable with the Dembele situation - and Dortmund ended up with 145m € for him although he's not even half the player Sancho already is at a younger age. Only thing I can tell you, I can't see this happening at all and the overwhelming majority of German football fans agree. My thoughts on the financial topic: Right now, top clubs seem to have a liquidity problem. They can finance their on going operations and wages but there's not much left besides that. This affects the spending capabilities and leads to a situation in which only clubs like Chelsea or City could realistically spend big. However, since top clubs aren't really losing money either, they can spend big on transfers rather quickly again once the incomes through ticketing etc. are back.
Dortmund for instance don't really seem to be under financial stress whatsoever. They even bought Bellingham and Can before they sold a single player. Those transfers would be on hold if they were struggling.
If anything, the Covid situation leads to less pressure to sell. Usually the fee decreases the fewer years are left on the contract (if that applies to the absolute star players is debatable, see Hazard for instance). However, if you can expect a huge raise in prices one or two years down the road, this reduces the urgency to sell as long as you don't have to fear losing the player on a free.
I just meant that your rhetoric sounds much like the german media, you could still be right of course, the second part probably sounded harsher than it was. I actually starting following Dortmund around the same time as you, and of course supported them when they topped the giants bayern. My impression of Zorc and Watzke is that they are mostly genuine, but also flexible. Especially Watzke, disappointingly so at times, but it has been mentioned before in this thread that things could be different now so we'll see.That doesn't go well together
Leverkusen wanted 90m pounds (100m €) and settled for 100m €. And yes, Dortmund are no title challengers but United isn't either. Right now, Sancho might have the options Dortmund or United for the next season, realistically he won't be contending for big trophies anyway.
Thing is, your whole line of argument breaks up because Dortmund never wanted to sell. Sancho is contracted until 2023, they can still sell him next season. As I said, I believe they were only open for a sale because they promised it to the player.
Additionally, I think you seriously underestimate Dortmund's financial prowess. They've got the 12. highest income among Europa and since 17/18 they made 110m in profits (Bellingham, Haaland, Can etc. already included). You can also be dead sure they aren't spending money they don't have already. In reality, they are under no pressure to sell Sancho in order to finance everything.
Keep going Bundesliga white knights. The internet needs you to convince people that Sancho is staying.
Yeah, they are flexible but not to that extent. When Aubameyang and Dembele tried to force their ways out, most fans in Germany thought they'd eventually leave and that the statements of Zorc and Watzke were just negotiating tactics. They wouldn't realistically hold on to Dembele and Auba after doing those things they did. Now it's different, nobody is believing they'll sell him.
You also underestimate the PR importance this has for Dortmund. They've been branded a selling club and it really grinds their gears. Then there's Hoeneß as the president of their biggest rival ridiculing them publicly since they'll sell Sancho. Honestly, I don't think you guys understand what kind of a PR disaster this would be for the BVB. You only read their statements and think they're comparable with Dembele and Aubameyang but if you really experience the whole situation, including the sentiments etc., this would be catastrophic PR for Dortmund. And they'd ruin their negotiating positions for future transfers for good, by the way.
I guess only time will tell. So for Sancho, he knows he is leaving anyway so Dortmund being challengers or not makes 0 difference because he will leave next summer anyway then.
Whereas with United, it is clear we are building a side to compete for major trophies which is not the case for Dortmund. We are giving Sancho the chance to be part of that, a position that we need to fill.
Dortmund themselves recorded a £40m loss for 19/20 and with alot of it coming due to loss of matchday revenue. This will continue to fall until all crowds are back.
However; even if they do not sell Sancho this summer, clubs will know that next season Dortmund have to sell and the bidding war they were expecting may not arrive and have to sell him for cheaper, with 1 less year left on his contract too.
Big clubs categorically are losing money. Not all big clubs, as some don’t rely too greatly on gate receipts. But I mean even United who have the least reliance on gate receipts in the league have said they had lost around 25 million. Clubs are paying wages and bills without receiving the money they usually would be. Premier league clubs are also being told to pay back certain tv licensing to the foreign market. Putting on matches behind closed doors without fans is costing clubs money, there are a lot of staff involved and no income from the gate receipts.
It’s more that big clubs can definitely survive and don’t need to sell, but that doesn’t automatically mean come next summer they’ll have more than 120 million to spend on a new player and offer him larger wages as you seem to think.
Can't wait to throw right them back in their faces when Ed gets it done. And i hope they are still sticking around here to see it!
But waiting for another season is also good for Sancho, isn't it? Due to Corona the salary won't be as crazy as he expected and the league in England is very unpredictable right now. As it stamds, City and Liverpool are a tier above the rest and Chelsea has had an incredible window which elevated them to third easily regarding individual quality alone. He can wait another year and observe how things develop instead of committing for a 4-5 year deal.
Your point regarding Dortmund kind of proved my point. The club had losses, yes, but they would've stayed positive if they didn't buy players. They wouldn't have done so if they were under financial pressure. Moreover, it proves that they can easily cover their operational costs. As I said, they manage themselves very carefully and grow organically. No way they would've bought Bellingham on top if Corona threatened their financial health.
And why would the bidding war not occur? If clubs know they want to sell, they bid against each other not against Dortmund. Now it's only between two clubs, you have to meet Dortmund's evaluation. Next year, you might have to meet those of PSG and co., who are eager to sign the next Ballon D'or contender.
Can't wait to throw right them back in their faces when Ed gets it done. And i hope they are still sticking around here to see it!
It's just an interesting discussion. I've got no emotional stakes in here. For what it's worth I'd love Sancho to United since that would make a really nice FIFA squad and provide new link ups for FUT 21. That's how much I care.
But I hope you're quite convinced this is happening because I'm going to rub this under your nose if it doesn't.
Do Dortmund fans still buy that PR crap from their club? As you know, they started their PR machine from last year with Sancho, late for meetings, unprofessional behaviour etc; ready to be put in the same category as Dembele and Aubameyang to save face in front of their fans that they are anything less then a selling club. The 2 Dortmund fans i know are very aware Sancho want's out and the club need the money.That doesn't go well together
My thoughts on the financial topic: Right now, top clubs seem to have a liquidity problem. They can finance their on going operations and wages but there's not much left besides that. This affects the spending capabilities and leads to a situation in which only clubs like Chelsea or City could realistically spend big. However, since top clubs aren't really losing money either, they can spend big on transfers rather quickly again once the incomes through ticketing etc. are back.
Dortmund for instance don't really seem to be under financial stress whatsoever. They even bought Bellingham and Can before they sold a single player. Those transfers would be on hold if they were struggling.
If anything, the Covid situation leads to less pressure to sell. Usually the fee decreases the fewer years are left on the contract (if that applies to the absolute star players is debatable, see Hazard for instance). However, if you can expect a huge raise in prices one or two years down the road, this reduces the urgency to sell as long as you don't have to fear losing the player on a free.
With the importance of ticket money for a club like Dortmund and games being played BCD, the 120mil will be very important, it's all a matter of if United decide that is prudent to do this deal now.
Yes, it could be good for him however; if he has a poor season, he wont be able to get the fee and if he has an amazing season, not every club will be able to afford his wages.
With respects to the bidding war, I am surprised how many fail to look at why he wants to leave, because he is homesick. He wants to come back to England which narrows his clubs to United, Liverpool, Chelsea.
Liverpool do not spend unless they spend, Chelsea have spent loads on attacking players this season. United unless we buy another attacker, will be in for Sancho again.
I do not think a 21 year old Sancho will go to PSG. Barca or Real may turn his head but this is why United need to do this deal now. We cannot risk another season, we may not end up in CL and then we will be out the race.
You German supporters seem really desperate for Sancho not to join Man Utd in particular
Of course I know that! Don't you know that all that is staged? The whole club, everything is fake and staged by Liverpool fans in order to wind up United fans. Even the stadium is just a scenery.
I am all ready for it mate. And you better be here yourself when it happens. Once United shows up the money, they will definitely accept the bid and will string the usual PR to their fans. The only way it doesn't happen is that if United cannot afford the money while as you are convinced Dortmund aren't selling now no matter if United can afford or not. It's pretty clear to me the whole saga reeks of money talks at the end of the day for BVB while you don't. Let's see who is right after October 5th maximum
It's not staged, it's just a very classless club; remember the goodbye message they gave to Mkhitaryan
? I can't be bothered to look now but there were some choice words for Sancho too, now that it looks less certain we will pay he is suddenly very important to the club.But they are a selling club. They're sold pretty much every star player they had (excluding Reus for some reason).
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