Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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2ndTouch said:
As long as you don't expect your offer to be accepted, sure.

How about this analogy

A: I want this 911 Turbo S. Here's 80k
B: It's 150k.
A: But it's Corona-Time!! Here's 80k(actually, it' just 50, you'll get remaining 30 spread over 5 years only if I'm really satisfied with the car), more than fair!
B: 150k
A: I'll get back to you, k?
B: Sure
.
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Godfather said:
How about that Porsche retailer is financially fecked like most businesses due to Corona. No way he wouldn't accept a smaller offer.
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RedCurry said:
It’s not exactly the correct analogy. Porsche 911 is fairly liquid asset and you can discover price using equivalent recent deals. All 911s from same year and same mileage are likely to be similar in price. Footballers aren’t exactly all the same and similar quality players can go for varied transfer fees. If we were going to use Porsche as an example, then Sancho’s fair value could reasonably be determined by using De Bruyne’s transfer fee and adjusting it for footballer inflation. If you did, he would be worth no more than what we seem to be offering. But like I said, footballers aren’t cars and each transfer is unique.
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Bet you are regretting ever using the Porsche analogue now!! :lol: :lol:
 
Che Guevara said:
At this level you should be getting at least half of that from just one striker. In fact, Lukaku has scored 33 so far this season.
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No. There aren't many strikers that score 30+ regularly... it usually takes away from the overall goals. I'd much rather have the goals spread throughout the attacking players to help combat a loss of form etc. I'm almost certain big Rom's goal stats are 'warped' by him banging in multiple goals in lesser matches too.
 
Surely it would be cheaper and more sensible to hire someone to "take care" of that agent? Everyone would understand as well.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
There's a lot of talk from the United end that the agent fees and wages are the barrier.
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We have been in contact with him and his agent since last summer, how can agent fees and personal terms be a barrier?

Surely, if you know the player wants to come and we are throwing all eggs in one basket there must be something agreed with the player.

I am worried we spend all our time and effort on this, not sign him and end up panic buying other players. I mean it's not like we are confident in our recruitment team.
 
do.ob said:
€50m commission on a €120m transfer.. you love to read it.. surely that can't be true?
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Of course it isn’t. :lol: TheRealChelseaFans.com haven’t got a scoop nobody else does.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
There's a lot of talk from the United end that the agent fees and wages are the barrier.
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I think by now everything has been reported one way or the other. I mean Romano, whose word people take as gospel, reported terms have been agreed with the player and it's just about whether or not United will meet Dortmund's demands, now United are briefing that there are issues with the player/agent side?
 
Looking at our October fixtures, it would be so much better if we could get this and all our other transfer business done as early as possible.
 
do.ob said:
I think by now everything has been reported one way or the other. I mean Romano, whose word people take as gospel, reported terms have been agreed with the player and it's just about whether or not United will meet Dortmund's demands, now United are briefing that there are issues with the player/agent side?
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Romanos info comes from lawyers and agents, so they did likely agree terms with Sancho and conveniently missed out the massive fee they want for doing that work.
 
do.ob said:
I think by now everything has been reported one way or the other. I mean Romano, whose word people take as gospel, reported terms have been agreed with the player and it's just about whether or not United will meet Dortmund's demands, now United are briefing that there are issues with the player/agent side?
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It's been reported for a while now. Laurie Whithall has the same details in his article in The Athletic this morning. It's a case of Dortmund, the player and the agent all having the same financial aspirations they did pre-covid which is making it unworkable economically for United.
 
UncleBob said:
Wouldn't be so certain about the fee. Raiola was set to make £41mill from the Pogba to United deal...
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No, it was from two different deals. The move from United to Juventus and the transfer from Juventus to United. The Sancho thing from a single transfer would be from an other world but it could have an equivalent with Neymar's move to Barcelona?
 
If agent fees and player wages are a problem, just lodge a bid close to Dortmund's asking price minus the agent fees, and offer wages similar to those that Rashford, Martial and others are on. Brief the press, and if Dortmund and/or Sancho refuse, everything is out in the open. Right now I can't help but suspect that this is a cover story being used to simply get out of having to pay a correct amount of money for a decent player, and that there's actually not a lot in the story around the agent fees or wages.
 
JPRouve said:
No, it was from two different deals. The move from United to Juventus and the transfer from Juventus to United. The Sancho thing from a single transfer would be from an other world but it could have an equivalent with Neymar's move to Barcelona?
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Football Leaks said it was 49m€ from just the one deal. 27 from Juve, 22 from United.
 
krautrøck said:
Football Leaks said it was 49m€ from just the one deal. 27 from Juve, 22 from United.
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It could still have been in the agreement when he was brought to Juve on a free that the agent would get paid a certain % of a future move away from the club. And then the fee from United in this deal was for negotiating the deal that brought him back to us.
 
krautrøck said:
Football Leaks said it was 49m€ from just the one deal. 27 from Juve, 22 from United.
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No, Football leaks actually seperates them. It's two deals that come from the same pot, the money paid by Juventus was owed from the original move, they owed a share of the future transfer in place of the signing bonus that they didn't pay. The part paid by United is linked to the transfer from Juventus to United.
 
RedCurry said:
It’s not exactly the correct analogy. Porsche 911 is fairly liquid asset and you can discover price using equivalent recent deals. All 911s from same year and same mileage are likely to be similar in price. Footballers aren’t exactly all the same and similar quality players can go for varied transfer fees. If we were going to use Porsche as an example, then Sancho’s fair value could reasonably be determined by using De Bruyne’s transfer fee and adjusting it for footballer inflation. If you did, he would be worth no more than what we seem to be offering. But like I said, footballers aren’t cars and each transfer is unique.
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You forgot to factor in the development of the TV market, and the associated revenue gains for the clubs. Today, De Bruyne wouldn't go for just an inflation-adjusted fee compared to what he went for back then.
 
romufc said:
We have been in contact with him and his agent since last summer, how can agent fees and personal terms be a barrier?

Surely, if you know the player wants to come and we are throwing all eggs in one basket there must be something agreed with the player.

I am worried we spend all our time and effort on this, not sign him and end up panic buying other players. I mean it's not like we are confident in our recruitment team.
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There's two ways of looking at it...1) it's bullsh*t, or 2) we haven't put in the necessary leg work leading up to the summer and established the total outlay required to sign him.

Now, usually, you'd think the first option is the most likely. But with our history under Woodward, I'm leaning towards option 2.
 
pocco said:
There's two ways of looking at it...1) it's bullsh*t, or 2) we haven't put in the necessary leg work leading up to the summer and established the total outlay required to sign him.

Now, usually, you'd think the first option is the most likely. But with our history under Woodward, I'm leaning towards option 2.
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Agreed, with our transfer record under him, I wouldn't be surprised either.

I know we say we have signed well but its not like they were genius signings?

AWB for £50m - rip off should have been lower fee
Maguire £80m - rip off should have been lower
Bruno £50m - only signed him because we were forced, could have done the deal 6 months before

even deals prior to that
Fred £50m - rip off
Sanchez - less we speak the better

So we are signing the players, maybe the right players but its not like we are doing well in the market. Any of us could have negotiated those deals because that was the asking price.
 
romufc said:
Agreed, with our transfer record under him, I wouldn't be surprised either.

I know we say we have signed well but its not like they were genius signings?

AWB for £50m - rip off should have been lower fee
Maguire £80m - rip off should have been lower
Bruno £50m - only signed him because we were forced, could have done the deal 6 months before

even deals prior to that
Fred £50m - rip off
Sanchez - less we speak the better

So we are signing the players, maybe the right players but its not like we are doing well in the market. Any of us could have negotiated those deals because that was the asking price.
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Pretty much
 
Gazza said:
Growing up in London, the Krays was the only name I associated with 'gangsters' in England, they were well-known among kids in my age group (born late 80s) so they have always been notorious. That's probably why they made a film about them, it's not like their story was a tremendously interesting one amongst your typical gangster flicks, they were just always notorious. They also had a made for TV film made about them in the 80s, starring the brothers from Spandau Ballet!
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OL29 said:
I’d say so. They’ve had numerous films made about them and a lot of small time crooks around London have tried to emulate their lingo and style, the most famous being the boys accused of killing Stephen Lawrence. Even Grant and Phil Mitchell were said to be based on the Krays.
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Interesting. As someone who didn't grow up in UK, and going by the books, I found the story of, say, Darby Sabini to be more captivating than that of the Krays.
 
Mihai said:
Interesting. As someone who didn't grow up in UK, and going by the books, I found the story of, say, Darby Sabini to be more captivating than that of the Krays.
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Can’t say I’ve heard of Sabini previously, just had a quick look at his Wikipedia and saw he was portrayed in Peaky Blinders which I found interesting. I think the Krays are the most romanticised as far as media goes, one of my friends even named his sons Ronnie and Reggie which I still can’t get my head round :lol:
 
We're in real danger of messing up another transfer window here, you can just see it. Too many aspects not agreed upon and too many involved from both sides. If it's true that we do still harbour hopes of signing him then something needs to give soon or else you could see us quite easily ending up with nothing this summer, or perhaps a 'Dan James' type signing at the most.
 
OL29 said:
Can’t say I’ve heard of Sabini previously, just had a quick look at his Wikipedia and saw he was portrayed in Peaky Blinders which I found interesting. I think the Krays are the most romanticised as far as media goes, one of my friends even named his sons Ronnie and Reggie which I still can’t get my head round :lol:
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Does my head in. My mate tries to argue they were just of their time and had "honour". They were utter cnuts.
 
OL29 said:
Can’t say I’ve heard of Sabini previously, just had a quick look at his Wikipedia and saw he was portrayed in Peaky Blinders which I found interesting. I think the Krays are the most romanticised as far as media goes, one of my friends even named his sons Ronnie and Reggie which I still can’t get my head round :lol:
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:lol:
 
JPRouve said:
No, it was from two different deals. The move from United to Juventus and the transfer from Juventus to United. The Sancho thing from a single transfer would be from an other world but it could have an equivalent with Neymar's move to Barcelona?
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The original claims was that all of it was from the Juventus to United deal, where Juventus paid a significant portion and we forked out around £16mill. Haven't seen any articles that claims otherwise. It's not completely unrealistic that there's a similar issue here, where the agent is supposed to get a large fee from Dortmund and one from the buying club.
 
JPRouve said:
No, Football leaks actually seperates them. It's two deals that come from the same pot, the money paid by Juventus was owed from the original move, they owed a share of the future transfer in place of the signing bonus that they didn't pay. The part paid by United is linked to the transfer from Juventus to United.
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And if the move from Juve to United does not happen, how much does Raiola get?
 
krautrøck said:
And if the move from Juve to United does not happen, how much does Raiola get?
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IIRC Juventus were supposed to pay them through signing bonuses with the future contract renewals.
 
JPRouve said:
No, Football leaks actually seperates them. It's two deals that come from the same pot, the money paid by Juventus was owed from the original move, they owed a share of the future transfer in place of the signing bonus that they didn't pay. The part paid by United is linked to the transfer from Juventus to United.
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So Raiola, at the time Pogba signed for Juventus from United, was compensated for the deal by being given a certain percentage of any future transfer...But yeah, £16mill is his agent fee and the rest is compensation from Juventus
 
UncleBob said:
The original claims was that all of it was from the Juventus to United deal, where Juventus paid a significant portion and we forked out around £16mill. Haven't seen any articles that claims otherwise. It's not completely unrealistic that there's a similar issue here, where the agent is supposed to get a large fee from Dortmund and one from the buying club.
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It's in football leaks. And I'm not telling you that it's not possible but it would mean that Dortmund are the one owing the money not United, United would be in the normal situation of having to find a contractual agreement with Sancho and his agent with "normal" fees which are rarely above 20m. 50m from United would be out of this world.
 
pocco said:
We're in real danger of messing up another transfer window here, you can just see it. Too many aspects not agreed upon and too many involved from both sides. If it's true that we do still harbour hopes of signing him then something needs to give soon or else you could see us quite easily ending up with nothing this summer, or perhaps a 'Dan James' type signing at the most.
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I can just see it now. We have an underwhelming window, blaming Covid to justify lack of spending. We have a stop and start season. By January, when we're at risk of missing out on CL money, we panic invest. Eventually our manager gets sacked. Alongside the new panic signing and the new manager bounce, we just about make it across the line for what we deem an acceptable season these days. We begin briefing about how this will be the summer where we finally spend big, take advantage and close the gap. Rinse and repeat.

I really fecking hope I'm wrong about this.
 
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