Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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Pexbo said:
According to one of their recent quarterly reports they stated that income from player departures remains a key part of their finance model. It’s a bit hard to believe that a club that relies on raising money through player sales is also liquid and robust enough to suck up a £45m deficit while refusing offers in excess of £90m. That’s just plain negligence.
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I mean as of their march report United have extended their credit line to €150m(?!) (on top of €450m(?!) exisiting debt) to go shopping and then I log on redcafe and read that it's incomprehensible and negligence that Dortmund would rather go €45m into debt and keep one of their most valuable assets for another season than sell it below value?
 
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GaryLifo said:
Is there any value to having this defensive Dortmund troll in this thread any longer?

Mate, we get it, you don't think Sancho will be sold and you are here bravely defending the honour of a club who don't even know, or care, that you exist - just like 99.9% of all football clubs when it comes to their fans. We are sources of income to these people - try not to think there is any 2-way relationship between you and your team. Your love is unrequited sorry to say :(
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it doesn't. Recent history suggests that they'll be boarding on a plane to India the moment Sancho signs for United.
 
do.ob said:
I've taken the numbers from Deloitte, as far as I know they don't include transfer earnings in revenue. Dortmund have been run fairly conservatively under Watzke, which sort of comes in handy now, as they should have a relatively easy time getting loans to ensure liquidity during this crisis. This is what he meant, when Watzke said today that they can last a while, that statement was about survival, not a declaration of attack to whomever.



What if I told you that if you have a bigger pie people also take bigger slices, differently sized wage bills being an example. Clubs that have considerably higher revenue also committed to considerably higher spending. From rich to poor, every club is fecked, the only question is how hard.
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Our wages to turnover ratio is fantastic though. Plus Sancho is a long term target and we arent willing to overspend on him so that higher spending isnt as set in stone as you may think.
 
red thru&thru said:
But Watzke says they have plenty of liquidity to with stand this and can keep going for a long time.

Financial experts, what does he mean? The cash in the bank? The 60m credit facility?
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Liquidity can be archived by several means. One is the cash reserves a company has, another are short term credits like the quoted 60 Mil. €, which is basically an overdraft facility on their bank account. They could also put additional shares on the stock market and generate money that way. The last way to ensure liquidity would be loans to bridge over the drought Corvid causes.

Watzkes confidence about the continued financial stability of the club stems mostly from the fact that Borussia Dortmund could easily secure loans with good conditions to keep the club running smoothly for years. In difference to a poster who questioned which bank might even finance Borussia Dortmund right now, they actually would have the pick amongst pretty much any major bank. They have been certificated with an outstanding credit rating (amongst the top 2% companies in the country) and it is pretty obvious why: no current long time loans and high capital with an unusal high equity ratio (over 70%) meaning that they could generate large amounts of money by sales to pay the rates+interest.

What does this mean in relation to a potential Sancho transfer? Not much, actually, just that they are not forced to sell to keep the lights running as they have enough alternative avenues left to secure that.

In the end, it becomes an evaluation what keeping Sancho for an additional year might cost the club (wages, potentially lower fee next Summer, potential interest payments) and if it outweighs the advantages of having him in the squad for that year.

One essential point in this thought process would be the question of an successor to fill the void Sancho will leave behind. There is no doubt in my mind that they would need to sign a relatively high profile player if they would sell right now. The fall off in offensive ability would be too great otherwise and actually put their CL spot at a risk, nevermind being part of the title race. Keeping him for a year would buy time for the various highly talented offensive youngsters (the biggest hopes undoubtly rest on Gio Reyna here) to develop enough so that the compensation of Sanchos departure could happen internally for the most part.
 
Sphaero said:
Liquidity can be archived by several means. One is the cash reserves a company has, another are short term credits like the quoted 60 Mil. €, which is basically an overdraft facility on their bank account. They could also put additional shares on the stock market and generate money that way. The last way to ensure liquidity would be loans to bridge over the drought Corvid causes.

Watzkes confidence about the continued financial stability of the club stems mostly from the fact that Borussia Dortmund could easily secure loans with good conditions to keep the club running smoothly for years. In difference to a poster who questioned which bank might even finance Borussia Dortmund right now, they actually would have the pick amongst pretty much any major bank. They have been certificated with an outstanding credit rating (amongst the top 2% companies in the country) and it is pretty obvious why: no current long time loans and high capital with an unusal high equity ratio (over 70%) meaning that they could generate large amounts of money by sales to pay the rates+interest.

What does this mean in relation to a potential Sancho transfer? Not much, actually, just that they are not forced to sell to keep the lights running as they have enough alternative avenues left to secure that.

In the end, it becomes an evaluation what keeping Sancho for an additional year might cost the club (wages, potentially lower fee next Summer, potential interest payments) and if it outweighs the advantages of having him in the squad for that year.

One essential point in this thought process would be the question of an successor to fill the void Sancho will leave behind. There is no doubt in my mind that they would need to sign a relatively high profile player if they would sell right now. The fall off in offensive ability would be too great otherwise and actually put their CL spot at a risk, nevermind being part of the title race. Keeping him for a year would buy time for the various highly talented offensive youngsters (the biggest hopes undoubtly rest on Gio Reyna here) to develop enough so that the compensation of Sanchos departure could happen internally for the most part.
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Excellent post from a Dortmund fan who has a sane mind. Well done mate.
 
do.ob said:
I mean as of their march report United have extended their credit line to €150m(?!) (on top of €450m(?!) exisiting debt) to go shopping and then I log on redcafe and read that it's incomprehensible and negligence that Dortmund would rather go €45m into dept and keep one of their most valuable assets for another season than sell it below value?
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I guess thats the bit where you ignore the context of “Dortmund state in their pre-covid financial report that selling players remains a key function of their finance model“

So the point being that Dortmund were already relying on player sales before the pandemic obliterated their finances and now despite a £45m hole to fill, they no longer think of player sales as an important stream of income?


United’s finances are an entirely different beast. We can loan £150m for player acquisitions because we have the revenue from other sources to cover that.
 
GledTheRed said:
Can the thread title contain "You love to see it" ?
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I really hope that when/if we sign Sancho, we post a picture of him in the number 7 shirt of United with the strapline “You love to see it”.
 
What part of ‘happy Sancho day’ doesn’t Ed understand?! God damn it Edward.
 
Pexbo said:
I guess thats the bit where you ignore the context of “Dortmund state in their pre-covid financial report that selling players remains a key function of their finance model“

So the point being that Dortmund were already relying on player sales before the pandemic obliterated their finances and now despite a £45m hole to fill, they no longer think of player sales as an important stream of income?


United’s finances are an entirely different beast. We can loan £150m for player acquisitions because we have the revenue from other sources to cover that.
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Dortmund usually use a portion of player sales to balance their books, that much is true. But they aren't prohibited from taking on debt. If the management feels like this summer it makes more sense to take on debt rather than to sell Sancho and weaken the squad then that's their prerogative.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your last sentence. Do you think Dortmund won't be able to repay their debt?
 
When the news about Ronaldo going to Madrid started to come out, did any of you go to Madrid forum and talked shit on their Ronaldo thread? :lol:
What is it with Dortmund fans or even Bundesliga fans in general that they felt they had to come here and talk shit about United or to defend Dortmund, it almost looks like they're in denial and trying so hard for this not to happen, as if their efforts matter.
 
Chief123 said:
Excellent post from a Dortmund fan who has a sane mind. Well done mate.
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He was always their most sensible one with very good posts throughout. Although he tried to convince us that Mkhi was actually a good footballer as far as I remember. I'll never forgive him for that.
 
Cee90 said:
I really hope that when/if we sign Sancho, we post a picture of him in the number 7 shirt of United with the strapline “You love to see it”.
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We need to keep it friendly a little bit longer, we can do that after we have signed Bellingham and Haaland as well.
 
It would be fun and games if we made a bid for any other targets, with other clubs thinking we won't be press ganged into paying exactly what they want and so paying a lesser amount, then we sign the players before paying Dortmund what they want for Sancho. Just a thought.
 
tenpoless said:
When the news about Ronaldo going to Madrid started to come out, did any of you go to Madrid forum and talked shit on their Ronaldo thread? :lol:
What is it with Dortmund fans or even Bundesliga fans in general that they felt they had to come here and talk shit about United or to defend Dortmund, it almost looks like they're in denial and trying so hard for this not to happen, as if their efforts matter.
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That @.mica dude is a WUM, he has basically set up camp in this thread to bash United and inform us how great Dortmund are functioning :lol:. He better not get promoted any time soon.
 
tenpoless said:
When the news about Ronaldo going to Madrid started to come out, did any of you go to Madrid forum and talked shit on their Ronaldo thread? :lol:
What is it with Dortmund fans or even Bundesliga fans in general that they felt they had to come here and talk shit about United or to defend Dortmund, it almost looks like they're in denial and trying so hard for this not to happen, as if their efforts matter.
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The fans behaviour on the internet mirrors how their club acts on social media. They love the shithousery.
 
Sphaero said:
Liquidity can be archived by several means. One is the cash reserves a company has, another are short term credits like the quoted 60 Mil. €, which is basically an overdraft facility on their bank account. They could also put additional shares on the stock market and generate money that way. The last way to ensure liquidity would be loans to bridge over the drought Corvid causes.

Watzkes confidence about the continued financial stability of the club stems mostly from the fact that Borussia Dortmund could easily secure loans with good conditions to keep the club running smoothly for years. In difference to a poster who questioned which bank might even finance Borussia Dortmund right now, they actually would have the pick amongst pretty much any major bank. They have been certificated with an outstanding credit rating (amongst the top 2% companies in the country) and it is pretty obvious why: no current long time loans and high capital with an unusal high equity ratio (over 70%) meaning that they could generate large amounts of money by sales to pay the rates+interest.

What does this mean in relation to a potential Sancho transfer? Not much, actually, just that they are not forced to sell to keep the lights running as they have enough alternative avenues left to secure that.

In the end, it becomes an evaluation what keeping Sancho for an additional year might cost the club (wages, potentially lower fee next Summer, potential interest payments) and if it outweighs the advantages of having him in the squad for that year.

One essential point in this thought process would be the question of an successor to fill the void Sancho will leave behind. There is no doubt in my mind that they would need to sign a relatively high profile player if they would sell right now. The fall off in offensive ability would be too great otherwise and actually put their CL spot at a risk, nevermind being part of the title race. Keeping him for a year would buy time for the various highly talented offensive youngsters (the biggest hopes undoubtly rest on Gio Reyna here) to develop enough so that the compensation of Sanchos departure could happen internally for the most part.
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Very good post, finally someone who offers some insight.
I believe the transfer is unlikely to happen and even if it does, Dortmund are well within their rights to demand the fee they want.
 
Kaizane said:
Skysports reporting we're in for Douglas Costa.

You love to see it!
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Briefing to the media to tell BVB we are ready to move on and see their reaction?

I would like Costa but he won't be anything more than a bench option here.
 
Erics_Collar said:
Because Shaw cannot stay fit for any length of time, so Williams will inevitably end up playing way too many games for someone as poor as he is.

He should be at the very most 3rd choice for any team with league winning aspirations. And that's just because of his age and the hope he might get better.
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You're probably right. Shaw only missed two games last season but has missed 17 this season. If he could stay fit next season he's not a concern. I wouldn't spend money on a LB until next summer whilst we still have Shaw and Williams on the books.
 
el3mel said:
Briefing to the media to tell BVB we are ready to move on and see their reaction?

I would like Costa but he won't be anything more than a bench option here.
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My thoughts too. All a part of Ed's masterplan to bring Sancho in for exactly the amount Dortmund have been after all along.
 
El-Manos said:
That @.mica dude is a WUM, he has basically set up camp in this thread to bash United and inform us how great Dortmund are functioning :lol:. He better not get promoted any time soon.
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Every rival fan gets promoted here for diversity. Kind of like schools and gay parents. :D

Lot of them are good posters tbf barring a few.
 
Kaizane said:
My thoughts too. All a part of Ed's masterplan to bring Sancho in for exactly the amount Dortmund have been after all along.
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Whilst getting 1000s of fans really irate. Genius.

At least we save a few weeks on his salary while we're messing though. That's probably a million or two
 
I am still firmly on the position that this is just a matter of time. Yesterday's exit may force Woody to just pay up sooner than he had hoped but I think he was going to stump up the cash in either scenario.
 
El-Manos said:
That @.mica dude is a WUM, he has basically set up camp in this thread to bash United and inform us how great Dortmund are functioning :lol:. He better not get promoted any time soon.
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Still surprised that he isn't banned yet, his Bundesliga predictions were awesome as well:
.mica said:
Best BVB squad since years! We did our homework very well. On the other side there is the worst Bayern squad ever, they are such a joke these times. Loudmouthing Hoeness who spoke about massive transfer activities, in the end there is nothing but questionmarks and a look at Brazzos clueless face.
At the moment its possible that its more likely that there will be a title race between BVB and this football playing advertisment called RB than a race between BVB and Bayern.
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