Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
- Thread starter Adnan
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Cheers mate.
There's no reason not to pay the 120m if its spread out sufficiently. Our squad is so young that once we get another 3 or 4 good players in we shouldn't need huge windows from next season onwards. We may not need really to sign another forward for the best part of a decade if all goes to plan. We could get 12 years out of him. 10m a year for a superstar is a no brainer.
You think they'd have sold to Bayern for 35m??
He's 20. We'll get a decade out of him. This will look very cheap in a few years.
Okay maybe not 35m but 50 m to 60 m. I don't think they would sell to Bayern for anywhere more than 80m. I don't even recall Bayern ever paying that much for a player.
They pick up good Germans towards the end of their contracts. Sancho is more like signing a Ronaldo, Mbappe or a Neymar. You don't see Bayern picking them up on the cheap.
They spent a Bundesliga record 80m just last year for Lucas Hernandez.
Traditionally they've definitely bought low and sold high and have tended not to spend crazy money in the market but they're also a club that'll adapt to the current realities do they've been a little more open to spreading their purse wider recently than before.
I don't think Dortmund would've sold them Sancho for less than 100m though, they were but hard by the Lewandowski transfer and I highlt doubt they'd look to sell their best player to a direct title rival for little or nothing again.
Its the only thing that pisses me off in this move. Dortmund hoover up top young talent and give them game time in systems where they can thrive. Then they offload and pocket mucho dinero. It almost seems cynical. I look forward to skipping the middle man in the future. I know Jadon is a big talent but like Dembele its a lot of risk relative to the price whereas we scooped up Fernandes for 40million. That is the type of business that is win win. Now if Jadon happens to become a truly dominant player then none of us will give a damn but in general it is not a strategy I feel comfortable with.
For those who don't know, here's a little quick update on whats going on with Sancho.
The transfer is now reported to be something close to £60-£70m upfront, followed by two further add-ons (performance-related) totaling to a maximum of £45 million in add-ons.
Dortmund have also set a deadline of August 10 to get any deal done.
The transfer is now reported to be something close to £60-£70m upfront, followed by two further add-ons (performance-related) totaling to a maximum of £45 million in add-ons.
Dortmund have also set a deadline of August 10 to get any deal done.
Sancho would never move for £60M. The guy is 20 and has had back to back seasons with double digits for both goals and assists. Pulisic who was riding the bench at the time, moved for £60M and you think the guy responsible for him riding the bench would move for the same amount?
No you can't mate.
It sounds easy at first but actually only clubs with no big silverware ambition aka feeder clubs can do this. Only them can have the luxury of playing youngsters so they can develop. Big clubs must win big titles, they usually don't have time nor room for a youngster unless he's already matured at a very young age. And you don't ask your super stars to stay on the bench for the sake of developing some youngsters.
Or you can do a Chelsea, buy a lot of potential young players then send them out on loan. Then call them back when they're ready. Some will work, most don't. But that cost some money too, for example we paid £9m for a 16 yo Mejbri. Problem is you still have to give them matches in order to see how they would do. Chelsea wasted a lot of good talent with their loan system and could only 'discovered' some with their transfer ban. Big clubs hardly have any room for youngsters, unfortunately.
We have and will see big clubs continue to spend ridiculous amounts on transfers, that's how the system works and there are so many reasons behind.
I think pretty much everyone in this thread is up to date but thanks.
Still don't want to get too excited until this one is official. I would be too much of a disappointment. The muppet sagas of the last decade are nothing. He's better than anyone we were after since Ronaldinho.
I have faith though. I'm sure Ed has had it well and truly explained that this is not one to feck up.
We have to trust Ole's ability to select going after the right players. So far, almost everyone of them have had very positive impact on the team and out performances. (Ok James is debatable but as a squad player he is a pretty good option to have.)
How is that Chelsea's fault? For all the talents they have some will make it, some wont.
Chelsea's system is fine, and credit where it's due. It's a win win for everyone involved. Here are some benefits I can see signing with Chelsea:
1. Stable income, higher than what they're getting
2. Being loaned easily, it's not like they're forced to play at Chelsea reserves
3. Having access to better medical, better academy standard, better coaching
4. Enjoying the exposure from being under Chelsea FC banner compared to playing in some eastern Europe club (no offence)
5. If they made it, good contracts awaits
6. If they don't make it, chances are D1 or D2 can potentially purchase them
7. Immigration advantages, permit, learning new culture
Nobody put a gun on their head, if they had better options they're free to choose, most don't.
Hopefully this lineup can come through
Martial
Rashford Havertz Sancho
Fernandes Pogba
Shaw Magalhaes Maguire AWB
De Gea
Martial
Rashford Havertz Sancho
Fernandes Pogba
Shaw Magalhaes Maguire AWB
De Gea
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4-4-2 anyone?
-----------------------De Gea-------------------
AWB-------Lindelof---Maguire--Shaw
Sancho---Pogba--Bruno----Rashford
--------------Greenwood--Martial-------
We will be absolutely trashed in midfield, and Maguire/Lindelof has to step up and control the game from deep.
But who cares? I want all of our star forwards to play!
-----------------------De Gea-------------------
AWB-------Lindelof---Maguire--Shaw
Sancho---Pogba--Bruno----Rashford
--------------Greenwood--Martial-------
We will be absolutely trashed in midfield, and Maguire/Lindelof has to step up and control the game from deep.
But who cares? I want all of our star forwards to play!
I know there are solid reasons behind it both commercial and footballing. But buying Sancho for 8million and flogging him for 100million 3 years later before his 20th birthday seems ridiculous to me and an unhealthy system. Like Dembele bought for 15million from Rennes and flogged a year later for 105million at 20yearsold.
I don't at all have a problem with the idea of feeder clubs that develop young talent but I find the situation with Dortmund absurd and I look forward to their bluff being called at some stage with these huge price tages. It smells like a ponzi scheme to me and if enough big clubs get burned on their deals then the big big transfers stop and the young player - agent business model goes kaput. Now I will admit that Dortmund are doing a supeb'ish job so far but this idea of pumping out a generational talent every 2 seasons (based on price tag) is grating on me. They better hope that Sancho turns into a superstar otherwise that might be the last big money exit for a while. Haaland is of coure their next cash cow. Rant over. Apologies.
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Why there are tons of delusional morons saying we are rinsed and if other clubs bought him it would be 50-60m ? They need to get their brain checked. Osimhen just went for 80m and they thought Sancho would be 60m ? Jesus christ
4-4-2 anyone?
-----------------------De Gea-------------------
AWB-------Lindelof---Maguire--Shaw
Sancho---Pogba--Bruno----Rashford
--------------Greenwood--Martial-------
We will be absolutely trashed in midfield, and Maguire/Lindelof has to step up and control the game from deep.
But who cares? I want all of our star forwards to play!
Outmanned in MF maybe but would opposition fullbacks be allowed to leave their 18-yard box let alone their third of the pitch?
It could work, during phase attack, CB would have to overload the midfield, particularly Maguire and Shaw has to cover the CB area while Pogba drifting to the left flank.
Attack phase:
--------------------De Gea----------------
--------Lindelof--------Shaw-----------
-----------------Maguire-------------------
AWB---------Bruno----------Pogba--
Sancho-----Greenwood---Rashford
-----------------Martial---------------------
Defenders would have nightmare facing this line up, maybe the lesser quality teams...
What a bizarre take.. Dortmund aren’t the first or last club to do this, selling clubs have been around for decades
Oh no apologize needed mate.
I just want to point out why, despite how ridiculous and unhealthy the system looks, there are valid reasons for Dortmund, Porto, Benfica, Rennes, Monaco etc. continue to do so. They has a perfect setup for this. And us, the bigger clubs who have basically no room or time for young players will have to continue to cough up ridiculous amounts to get the best players. I don't like it either but we have to live with that I think.
For any transfer, there's always risks involved so how Sancho would turn out for us is not really their fault. We agree to buy him, so we agree to the risks involved.
Regarding Haaland, as far as I know he has a release clause around ~£60m. If he continues to perform like recently, he'll leave pretty soon imo. With a really big contract of course. Point is, would any big club accept that clause? That's why those feeder clubs exist, they have a big role to play in the system.
I have no problem with selling clubs.
They certainly do have an important role to play in the football ecosystem. Its just for me the price tags that Dortmund are using. They are trying to engineer a generational talent factory and so far I have not seen proof of that. Great young talent identification and development, but not to the point where these huge investments are guaranteed.
Agreed, Dortmund has the advantage of poaching the wonderkids because of their proven track records.. it's their model of profit. Not all clubs can offer what they offer to young players. Top flight football and Champions league experience. Can't blame them.
Imo, they are better morally than Bayern though, who poach established stars for cheap or free.
Hey guys whats taking so long?
You make it sound like Dortmund are selling fake watches. The players are the ones who force their own value up through their performances and output. I mean we can all see what the players do on the pitch, it’s not like some money-laundering scheme hidden from the public eye in Watzke’s basement.
I suspect the fallback plan is to have Sancho move into the central position to deputise for Bruno and provide the creative spark besides being an interchangeable front 3. He certainly looks like a better final third passer than any of the front 3 at the moment.
Thank you for the detailed post!
There is this Caf myth called 'United tax'. Obviously it is a stupid concept based on nothing.
There is nothing morally wrong with what Bayern does. We do the same when we can. The problem is that there are other rich clubs in England, while Germany has only 1 but that is not Bayern's fault.
As much as I like Rashford, Im sorry but with current form I would like to have Sancho play Instead of Rashford together with Martial and Greenwood. I know Rashford has added new element into his play - passing from deep (with the change in shape with LB move inside), but still It couldn't feel right when your winger didn't try to get past defenders,especially when 1 on 1.
3 matches after lock down I realized that Rashford didn't attempt to dribble or go past opponent LB. I guessed and hoped ( like others) it was because he had a long time out with injury but that's not the case. I like him but as I said, the feeling is weird when you see your winger gets the ball, standing and then pass it.
Class is forever and I hope Rashy finds his form soon but with the current form of Martial and Greenwood, it'd be a shame if either of them has to sit on the bench.
Ha well it was a rant. I will say that I have a lot of respect for Dortmund and they are a very well managed club. They play the system extremely well.
I can see that happening in two situations:4-4-2 anyone?
-----------------------De Gea-------------------
AWB-------Lindelof---Maguire--Shaw
Sancho---Pogba--Bruno----Rashford
--------------Greenwood--Martial-------
We will be absolutely trashed in midfield, and Maguire/Lindelof has to step up and control the game from deep.
But who cares? I want all of our star forwards to play!
1. When we're chasing games late minutes.
So we go all-out throw all our best attacks on the pitch, but then I don't remember Ole ever doing this before, he seems to prioritize stability and team balance. He's not SAF who is a gambler and will dare try this to get the win. Who knows Ole may be more confident in future games.
2. We use a new unique system -- inverted defensive FBs and hybrid CDM/Defender.
AWB and Shaw only focus on defending. Let the front 6 focus on attacks. The job of the back 4 is only to pass the ball to the front 6 and defending of course. This will create a strong line of defense at the back and 4 strictly defenders, good numbers that cover each other stopping any attacks.
All four are also fairly good on the ball. AWB maybe the least capable but his defending on the floor is the best. So in transition, the 4 take turns to fill into the solo CDM role so there is a good triangle for better passing to the front 6.
Situation A
- when the ball is on our left (Shaw's side) so AWB jump into CDM.
-----------------------De Gea-------------------
-------Lindelof---Maguire--Shaw-------
------------------------AWB-----------------------
Sancho---Pogba--Bruno----Rashford
--------------Greenwood--Martial-------
Situation B
- when the ball is on our centre backs holding it or in front among our front 6, then one of the CBs move into CDM with the other remain at the back.
-----------------------De Gea--------------------
-------AWB--------Maguire-----Shaw-----
------------------------Lindelof------------------
Sancho---Pogba--Bruno----Rashford
--------------Greenwood--Martial-------
-----------------------De Gea--------------------
-------AWB--------Lindelof-----Shaw-----
------------------------Maguire------------------
Sancho---Pogba--Bruno----Rashford
--------------Greenwood--Martial-------
Situation C
- when the ball is on our right (AWB's side) so Shaw jump into CDM but... *best for Shaw to remain as LCB so the back will be far balanced so below setting may best not be applied*. So instead Maguire should move into CDM instead.
-----------------------De Gea--------------------
----AWB-----------Lindelof---------Mag--
------------------------Shaw---------------------
Sancho---Pogba--Bruno----Rashford
--------------Greenwood--Martial---------
- when the ball is on our left (Shaw's side) so AWB jump into CDM.
-----------------------De Gea-------------------
-------Lindelof---Maguire--Shaw-------
------------------------AWB-----------------------
Sancho---Pogba--Bruno----Rashford
--------------Greenwood--Martial-------
Situation B
- when the ball is on our centre backs holding it or in front among our front 6, then one of the CBs move into CDM with the other remain at the back.
-----------------------De Gea--------------------
-------AWB--------Maguire-----Shaw-----
------------------------Lindelof------------------
Sancho---Pogba--Bruno----Rashford
--------------Greenwood--Martial-------
-----------------------De Gea--------------------
-------AWB--------Lindelof-----Shaw-----
------------------------Maguire------------------
Sancho---Pogba--Bruno----Rashford
--------------Greenwood--Martial-------
Situation C
- when the ball is on our right (AWB's side) so Shaw jump into CDM but... *best for Shaw to remain as LCB so the back will be far balanced so below setting may best not be applied*. So instead Maguire should move into CDM instead.
-----------------------De Gea--------------------
----AWB-----------Lindelof---------Mag--
------------------------Shaw---------------------
Sancho---Pogba--Bruno----Rashford
--------------Greenwood--Martial---------
Additionally...
3. Replace Matic with Lindelof
So we're playing with one CB, while Matic will play a dual role as CB while maintain doing the CDM roles.
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I'm really struggling to see why people are getting so wound up about starting 11s. We play over 50 games a season. We make substitutions in every game. Martial and Rashford both had 2 month plus injuries last season.
All 4 of them will play absolutely heaps of football and I honestly think the split of minutes will be pretty even between the 4 by end of the season. Expect whoever gets rested in any game get half an hour from the bench. Ole will want them all fresh for the second half of the season so none of them will be starting every week.
You're right on Rashford. I'm certain he'd have been dropped for the last couple of games because he looked knackered. That's why we need Sancho. To reduce the workload on all 3 of them.
If you know how much money is generated from football you'd be amazed. Football has become a crazy multi billions lucrative industry.
Tbh I don't care much about how much we pay for a player. It's Ed's job. And if we pay that means we can afford it. We're not PSG or City. We spend the money we earn. No worry. With deals like Neymar, Mbappe, Dembele, Felix if the recent reports are true, imo we actually strike a pretty good and reasonable deal for Sancho.
And as I said, there's always risks involved in a transfer so how would Sancho turn out for us is not really their fault. We sign him we accept the price and the risks. It's not like they cheat on his medical report anyway. Let's make it clear once we sign him, it's entirely up to him and us for how would this turn out.
That could work too, but defensively our wings will be a huge risk, easy to be exploited.
Too easy to stretch our defense apart too, opening huge spaces which we're so bad at defending.
These same morons would be calling for Ole and Ed heads if City/Liverpool were in for him and we look for cheaper 50-60m option.
I think he might flop here.
How did Longstaff do by the way. I don't follow New Castle much so I don't know how did he fare this season
We were desperate for him last year
One flop to another
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