Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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sammsky1 said:
He wants to play vs PSG and Leipzig!!

@Adnan : do we stand any chance vs Liepzig? Am looking forward to all your thoughts and commentary on that game!
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We definitely stand a chance with out a doubt. There's weaknesses in the RB Leipzig team that we can expose but it's gonna be a case of matching their work rate in midfield that will be key.
 
Pexbo said:
God knows how many players we’d have missed out on with this attitude.

My entire point is that negotiations are just a mixture of a dick swinging contest and a game of chicken. Everything you see in the press is just bluster and you begin to judge a window at 00:01 when the window has shut.
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sammsky1 said:
Which is why you are not Judge’s assistance :lol:
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Potentially. However, there's something to be said for getting new players in early and integrated.

If we don't get Sancho we haven't left ourselves very much time to get a good alternative. If that player is coming from overseas we have not given him much time to become acclimatised to England and to get to know his teammates.
 
#07 said:
It will look like they made the wrong choice. I did not judge our approach to the transfer like that however. I judged it based on the idea that we wanted Sancho. If that's your target you do what you can to try to make it happen.

Its irrelevant to me, on a personal level, whether we sign Sancho or not. There are literally dozens of right wingers who would instantly improve our squad. Had I been employed as Matt Judge's understudy I would have politely acknowledged Dortmund's position, ended all contact in August and moved on to another target.
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Can't say i agree with that position... thats not how negotiation works. No transfer ever involves a team going for a player, the selling team saying i wan't £xxM and the buying team saying sure thing straight away.
There will always be an element of trying to get the price down, regardless of however much is asked for. United do tend to take it to the extreme, but to hang on this long, and to push it hard in the last few days of the window seems to me that United know that Dortmund have to sell, or really really want to sell and are playing on that. Of course, i could be wrong, but the fact we're not letting go and now looking at 'alternatives' which, lets be honest, we don't really want or have much chance of getting (Dembele), piles pressure on Dortmund.

As has been pointed out, it looks like COVID is going to be here well into next year, with winter coming and cases rising everywhere again, it's only going to get worse and prices are only going to get lower as clubs get more financial pressure placed on them next year. Thats how i see things working out anyway.
 
The press is just using this situation to sell as many baitclicks, newspapers etc etc as possible these last day. We will hear about this story more and more next coming days, every journalist will first have a "its getting closer, here we go" articel and then when the window closes they will all have their own story why it all collapsed in the last second. 99.99% Fake news.

IF, we buy him, it will be a fast move. Ed calling the Dortmund director, asking "Is 110 then enough, "No we need 130m now to not end up like the loosers here" and our brilliant will answer "Ed: Okey, take 140m" - but most probably, we will get Tellas for somewhere around 18m and Cavani on a 1+1 year while we pray and wait for Haaland release clause to be activeted.

My dream is that someone could convice the Glazers and Ed to give Dortmund a package offer for Haalaand and Sancho. Haaland release clause is 63m, give them 63 + 127m (7m for the early agreement and let us sign up Haaland already right now (like Liverpool did with Keita, but we will have to wait 1 year and 9 months). Pay 100m now, 50m next summer and 80 in 2 years years. For 190m we will bring the 2 of 3 of biggest talents in Europe right now (Mbappe being the last one and probably best one).

And like said, this ummer bring in Cavani on 1+1 and Tellas on 4+1 years and we have the LB situation suited for a while with Tellas and Shaw. Williams/Laird (very soon) should be able to give AWB competion for his RB spot, so both fullback postions solved right now. CB = Upamenco, same thing here, put in a extra 5-10 under the table for him in januari and let him play there until his release clause gets activeted next summer. The only bug issue now that we will have next summer is DC, where i really dont have any idea who we can solve that big issue for a decent amount IF (which we probably wont) bring in Sancho, Tellas and Cavani now, Upamenco next summer and Haaland 2022.

If really can sell Andres and Smalling for 45 m total that would be amazing. We should also try to offload Romero, Lindelöf, Rojo, Lingaard, James, Ighalo (10+25+5+15+10+0=60m) = 105m

Sell De Gea in 2 years, we will probably still get around 30m for him.

Sanho + Haaland = 190m
Upamenco = 50m
Tellas = 15m
DCM = 60m probably (Ndidi just to give a example)
VDB= 35m
=350-135= 215 m over the next 3 years.

Henderson
AWB Maguire Upamenco Tellas
Pogba Ndidi
Sancho Brono Greenwood
Haaland

Bench: GK, Mendi, Shaw, Fred, VDB, Rashford Martial

And we have A LOT of new amazing talents recruited last 1-2 year. Some of them should at least become rotationplayers and maybe 1-2 starplayers (Hannibel, Laird, Mendi....there a some that if they keep working hard could be our new golden generation).

Sorry for all the text, and i know many will read this and think "FM", but no, only FM is the Sancho + Haaland deal, even though even that could happen specielly if get Sancho now or in January and OGS stays as manager (He and Haalands father are good friends). The rest of the signings are not impossible at all, Upamenco will go 100% next summer for 43m(?) and Tellas i believe will join us this window.
 
The one big sticking point for me in this whole situation is that we've started negotiating with intermediaries so late into the window. What were we doing for the past couple of months, then? Were we hoping that the lack of time would put pressure on Dortmund to hopefully accept a lower price? Why weren't we lining up alternatives at the time (instead of having agents offer their players to us)?

My only guess is that Ole wanted Sancho and no one else, and because the board potentially gave him some confidence on the deal, he's now pushing them to stick with their word and give him Sancho. There's no other way to explain the lack of activity over our right-wing options for the past two months.
 
Adnan said:
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This is the most encouraging tweet during this whole saga. And it’s also textbook and as many have predicted since a long time in this thread.

BVB can of course ignore Sancho’s mood and plough through but then Sancho’s mood will impact his performances for a while after.
 
Since we qualified for the CL on the 26th July Ed & Judge (Laurel & Hardy) only managed to get VDB.
For the rest of the time they mentioned a ton of players to the press (who duly obliged with their writings) and finally AGAIN we all have been taken for a ride!
It's going to be another hard season for us. :(
 
sammsky1 said:
This is the most encouraging tweet during this whole saga. And it’s also textbook and as many have predicted since a long time in this thread.

BVB can of course ignore Sancho’s mood and plough through but then Sancho’s mood will impact his performances for a while after.
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Who is that journalist exactly? Reliable I take it?
 
mazhar13 said:
The one big sticking point for me in this whole situation is that we've started negotiating with intermediaries so late into the window. What were we doing for the past couple of months, then? Were we hoping that the lack of time would put pressure on Dortmund to hopefully accept a lower price? Why weren't we lining up alternatives at the time (instead of having agents offer their players to us)?

My only guess is that Ole wanted Sancho and no one else, and because the board potentially gave him some confidence on the deal, he's now pushing them to stick with their word and give him Sancho. There's no other way to explain the lack of activity over our right-wing options for the past two months.
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I think you’re right about OGS saying he wants only Sancho.

And the club always knew it would come late, and were banking on 2nd wave confirmation to be the final factor that forces BVB to take the money this window.

Im still very confident this will happen: Sancho will soon make a public statement about wanting to leave and feeling like ‘he is being kidnapped’, he will not play on Saturday, their coach will cry about being betrayed by Sancho and deal gets done Sunday or Monday.
 
El-Manos said:
Who is that journalist exactly? Reliable I take it?
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He apparently has connections with Dortmund as well as Sancho's camp. I haven't seen him before, but he doesn't seem to be not credible (double negative, I know, but I can't say that he's reliable yet).
 
Brownie85 said:
Can't say i agree with that position... thats not how negotiation works. No transfer ever involves a team going for a player, the selling team saying i wan't £xxM and the buying team saying sure thing straight away.
There will always be an element of trying to get the price down, regardless of however much is asked for. United do tend to take it to the extreme, but to hang on this long, and to push it hard in the last few days of the window seems to me that United know that Dortmund have to sell, or really really want to sell and are playing on that. Of course, i could be wrong, but the fact we're not letting go and now looking at 'alternatives' which, lets be honest, we don't really want or have much chance of getting (Dembele), piles pressure on Dortmund.

As has been pointed out, it looks like COVID is going to be here well into next year, with winter coming and cases rising everywhere again, it's only going to get worse and prices are only going to get lower as clubs get more financial pressure placed on them next year. Thats how i see things working out anyway.
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In terms of the transaction, the haggling you are talking about can only happen if there's a willingness to entertain a bid. You must first establish the conditions for any potential acquisition. As you highlight, United seem to believe Dortmund have to sell. I'm not sure what information this belief is based upon. I hope its true. Evra said we often believe the wrong people. Dortmund's exec team is behaving as though they don't have to sell, and if they believe this then there is no reason for them to compromise on their asking price.

There is a big difference between being open to sell and seeking to sell. A man may not want to sell his car but if you offer him much more than its worth he's probably going to be open to it.

My inclination is to take Dortmund at face value, in so far as I believe that they'd sell for €120 million but they aren't actively seeking to sell. Hence why I said if I worked for Matt Judge I would have backed away from this deal long ago and pursued an alternate target. However, I hope you are correct and that United have not miscalculated.
 
So, Sky reported that he didn't train, then reported that he turned up late and trained individually, and are now reporting that he didn't train again.


?????
 
I think if he was really sick yesterday, he would have stayed ate home. He tested negative, but it’s wiser to stay at home if you have symptoms.
 
sammsky1 said:
This is the most encouraging tweet during this whole saga. And it’s also textbook and as many have predicted since a long time in this thread.

BVB can of course ignore Sancho’s mood and plough through but then Sancho’s mood will impact his performances for a while after.
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Dortmund should make him stay.
 
#07 said:
In terms of the transaction, the haggling you are talking about can only happen if there's a willingness to entertain a bid. You must first establish the conditions for any potential acquisition. As you highlight, United seem to believe Dortmund have to sell. I'm not sure what information this belief is based upon. I hope its true. Evra said we often believe the wrong people. Dortmund's exec team is behaving as though they don't have to sell, and if they believe this then there is no reason for them to compromise on their asking price.

There is a big difference between being open to sell and seeking to sell. A man may not want to sell his car but if you offer him much more than its worth he's probably going to be open to it.

My inclination is to take Dortmund at face value, in so far as I believe that they'd sell for €120 million but they aren't actively seeking to sell. Hence why I said if I worked for Matt Judge I would have backed away from this deal long ago and pursued an alternate target. However, I hope you are correct and that United have not miscalculated.
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United get their info on other clubs' inclinations via the player's agents. If we're still going on with this, then it's because Sancho's camp has given us some encouragement on this deal.

Ideally, we'd have gotten this info via extended talks with the selling club, but we tend to just initiate contacts and then have extended talks with the player's camp.
 
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MattofManchester said:
So, Sky reported that he didn't train, then reported that he turned up late and trained individually, and are now reporting that he didn't train again.


?????
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I wouldn't listen to anything Sky Sports says to be fair.

They've got Dharmesh Sheth saying that Dortmund will reject any offer United send in, regardless of how much it is, because we missed their August 10th deadline and they're firm on that, yet you also have Gary Cotterill saying that Dortmund are willing to engage in a sale should United come back in, or something to that effect. So, two Sky reporters saying two totally different things. Whats it gonna be Sky? You covering all angles eh, or just trying to confuse the hell out of your viewers?

Utter tripe, the lot of them!
 
mazhar13 said:
United get their info on other clubs' inclinations via the player agents. If we're still going on with this, then it's because Sancho's camp has given us some encouragement on this deal.

Ideally, we'd have gotten this info via extended talks with the selling club, but we tend to just initiate contacts and then have extended talks with the player's camp.
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As mentioned, Evra did say we often believe the wrong people.
 
MattofManchester said:
So, Sky reported that he didn't train, then reported that he turned up late and trained individually, and are now reporting that he didn't train again.


?????
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Sky haven't a Scooby-Doo. They have devolved from a reputable source to click merchants over the past couple years.
 


Constantin seems to be convinced he will move to us whether its this summer or next summer.

Reiiterates that Sancho is not happy right now.
 
red4ever 79 said:
why would they risk millions? They will get the same price for him next year. It's in Sanchos best interests to remain professional especially with the Euro's next year.
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We’ve been over this a hundred times: it’s extremely unlikely any team will have the cash after 2nd wave financial impact to bid £100m next summer.
 
sammsky1 said:
We’ve been over this a hundred times: it’s extremely unlikely any team will have the cash after 2nd wave financial impact to bid £100m next summer.
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Who's been over this a hundred times? Roman wont have any problem stumping 120m next season surely, or PSG
 
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