Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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Turnip said:
I'm not sure I understand the logic behind "we have more problems than right winger so we should bother buying a top class young right winger". What are we aiming for here? We aren't going to get the 3 top class players we need in one window, but surely 1 is better than nothing? I'd rather us buy 1 top class player than another 4 pieces of deadwood.

I also think people are underestimating what a difference 1 player makes. We had a few chances down the right hand side that were wasted with sloppy crosses and cut backs, only takes 1 of them to go in to change the game.
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I agree. We've seen the amount of players the caf has over hyped. Darmian was a top class RB. Memphis the next Ronaldo. Sancho is genuinely got it. No it's or buts. The natural talent is ridiculous and he's proving it consistently. Do you want one Eden Hazard or 3 other random signings.
 
There is an argument to be made to get say Thomas Partey and Upamecano for 110m Euros instead of Sancho.

Having said that I prefer Sancho. But ultimately we need additional players. Some quality for gods sake.

#glazersoutwoodwardout
 
UncleBob said:
Ah, stats, great.

Year of Moyes: We spent the odd £70mill after having won the league, after a season where we had won the league and signed Zaha, Van Persie and Kagawa as first team players. Zaha having his first season under Moyes.

First season of Van Gaal, no CL: £145mill spent on Herrera, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria and Blind.

Season with CL: The odd £100mill on Depay, Darmian, Schweinsteiger, Anthony Martial (record fee at the time) and Romero on a free.

The total transfer outlay is less, but he pretty much got everything he pointed at, excluding Muller as Bayern were anything but interested in selling him.

Mourinho spent £150mill the first summer, no CL. £146mill the following summer, having qualified for the CL via the Europa League. Breakdown between manager and management becomes clear towards the end of the second season, no trust whatsoever, kept insisting on new players to replace players he had already signed, not happy with his CB's after he had just spent £60mill on lindelof and Bailly. £30mill on Mkhi but instantly replaced him with Sanchez, on obscene wages, who turned out to be even worse. His insistance on getting Depay out of the club on a permanent deal was met by frustration at the club, as we initially wanted to loan him out. We sold him for feck all.

Breaking this down to "we only spend money when we finish outside the top 4" is bizarre. The only time we've gone in to do damage control and limit the manager is after Mourinhos second season, when things started going to shits.

Nor is it hardly a shock that spending tends to increase after managers are replaced.
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Qualifying for Champions league via the Europa back door does not count. We finished 6th that season so it counts as a finish outside of the top 4.

(Prior season 1st) 13/14 net spend £67 million after winning the league. But were in desperate need of a rebuild.

(Prior season 7th) 14/15 LVGs first year. Net spend £131 million.

(Prior season 4th) 15/16 net spend £91 million.

(Prior season 5th) 16/17 net spend £124 million. Jose first season.

(Prior season 6th) 17/18 net spend £137 million.

If you need me to carry on I will. But the trend is clear and appears to be continuing. If we finish top 4 spending is reduced. Top 4 is the boards target. Consistent champions league money.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Qualifying for Champions league via the Europa back door does not count. We finished 6th that season so it counts as a finish outside of the top 4.

(Prior season 1st) 13/14 net spend £67 million after winning the league. But were in desperate need of a rebuild.

(Prior season 7th) 14/15 LVGs first year. Net spend £131 million.

(Prior season 4th) 15/16 net spend £91 million.

(Prior season 5th) 16/17 net spend £124 million. Jose first season.

(Prior season 6th) 17/18 net spend £137 million.

If you need me to carry on I will. But the trend is clear and appears to be continuing. If we finish top 4 spending is reduced. Top 4 is the boards target. Consistent champions league money.
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Agreed. But I find it hard to believe that the board/Woodward/Glazers are so stupid that they think we can come in top 4 again with less spending the next year. I mean surely they recognize that standing still means you go back.

So that leads to my conclusion that even regular top 4 is not their goal. Every other year or so is enough. If we don't get top 4 one year its OK, just change manager, spend good get top 4 again. The money saved that year by not spending balances out the loss of top 4. And all the while they continue to collect dividends as we continue to make huge money. The day this model stops working and it will as seen with Liverpool before, ac milan now etc, then they will sell the club and wave goodbye.

#glazersoutwoodwardout
 
GaryLifo said:
I was a fully qualified electronics engineer for 10 of those 20 years and I worked as a test engineer while I was an undergrad doing my psychology degree, MSc and then I finally worked as a part time lecturer while researching my PhD. After my PhD I worked for another 5 years outside academia as an applied psychologist with the military and then decided to go back to academia as I love teaching and doing research.

Then again, this fella you quoted clearly already knows all about me just by guessing.
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Nice! I'm starting my MSc in Psychology (part-time) next week while working full-time. Slightly nervous. Any advice?
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Qualifying for Champions league via the Europa back door does not count. We finished 6th that season so it counts as a finish outside of the top 4.

(Prior season 1st) 13/14 net spend £67 million after winning the league. But were in desperate need of a rebuild.

(Prior season 7th) 14/15 LVGs first year. Net spend £131 million.

(Prior season 4th) 15/16 net spend £91 million.

(Prior season 5th) 16/17 net spend £124 million. Jose first season.

(Prior season 6th) 17/18 net spend £137 million.

If you need me to carry on I will. But the trend is clear and appears to be continuing. If we finish top 4 spending is reduced. Top 4 is the boards target. Consistent champions league money.
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Correlation doesn’t necessarily mean causation though.

I just don’t buy the economics of spending big to get back into the CL. It makes just as much sense to spend big having qualified to maintain your position.

Not to mention you must end up paying bigger wages to attract players when you miss the CL and other players don’t want to make the move at all.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Qualifying for Champions league via the Europa back door does not count. We finished 6th that season so it counts as a finish outside of the top 4.

(Prior season 1st) 13/14 net spend £67 million after winning the league. But were in desperate need of a rebuild.

(Prior season 7th) 14/15 LVGs first year. Net spend £131 million.

(Prior season 4th) 15/16 net spend £91 million.

(Prior season 5th) 16/17 net spend £124 million. Jose first season.

(Prior season 6th) 17/18 net spend £137 million.

If you need me to carry on I will. But the trend is clear and appears to be continuing. If we finish top 4 spending is reduced. Top 4 is the boards target. Consistent champions league money.
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I've already laid out the basics. If you want to be wrong, go ahead.
 
@Acquire Me is my favourite muppet here because he speaks with such authority. Can he also find us some defenders please?
 
sparx99 said:
Correlation doesn’t necessarily mean causation though.

I just don’t buy the economics of spending big to get back into the CL. It makes just as much sense to spend big having qualified to maintain your position.

Not to mention you must end up paying bigger wages to attract players when you miss the CL and other players don’t want to make the move at all.
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Well your first mistake was to assume the club do things that make sense
 
If we manage to get anywhere near 30m for Lingard and possibly if the Bielsa James interest is genuine, then do we think that Woodward will finally be able to commission the winning Sancho bid?
 
sparx99 said:
Correlation doesn’t necessarily mean causation though.

I just don’t buy the economics of spending big to get back into the CL. It makes just as much sense to spend big having qualified to maintain your position.

Not to mention you must end up paying bigger wages to attract players when you miss the CL and other players don’t want to make the move at all.
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The trend is there though. The economic/commercial argument to only aim for top 4 instead of 1st is also there. It makes more commercial sense to the club in the short to medium term. A better return for them.

Combine those factors together with the spend/league position trend and I think that is what they are trying to achieve.
 
UncleBob said:
I've already laid out the basics. If you want to be wrong, go ahead.
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That is your problem, you only understand the basics. Although the trend is obvious to anyone capable of recognising a trend.

Maybe you feel better in denial. I don't want to take that away from you, so let's leave it here.
 
Selling Lingard suggests Sancho will come in. If we miss out on Sancho for this season, it doesn't make sense to lose a player like Lingard, as he will act as squad cover along with a temporary loan signing.

Only makes sense to me to clear the cupboard for a Sancho.
 
Jim Beam said:
Big day tomorrow
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I think it needs to happen early this week, so the club can change the very negative atmosphere around the club, and build to a crescendo that will inspire a win over Brighton next weekend.

Much like Spurs have done last week with Bale's signing totally changing the narrative from their embarrassing opening day defeat.

Am still firmly on this train, despite Woodwoods best attempts to throw me off because I don't have a ticket.
 
sammsky1 said:
Selling Lingard suggests Sancho will come in. If we miss out on Sancho for this season, it doesn't make sense to lose a player like Lingard, as he will act as squad cover along with a temporary loan signing.

Only makes sense to me to clear the cupboard for a Sancho.
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We will refuse all bids for Lingard as we want more money and won’t pay for Sancho as it’s too much money.
 
Some crazy stuff in the suggested proposed outgoings today. Lingard to go yep fine with that and James fine but only if he's replaced with a RW. Just don't see any but outgoings allowing us to do any more transfer business. If we mange the two above then im 100% we will do a Woodward and pay what they're asking. Still good business but we make it do tough fir ourselves.
 
Jim Beam said:
Big day tomorrow
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Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
If we’re paying the asking price why not just do it 6 weeks ago you utter complete morons.
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My understanding is Sancho will be signed possibly this week. United will meet Dortmund price, they will definitely agree on the payment plan. It won't be the full fee at once. That will not happen and Dortmund know this.

The only reason he has not been signed at this point is covid. Am an accountant and what Ed Woodward is more concerned of right now is cashflow.

If United signed Sancho a month ago for example, we would have paid him 1 million already in wages. That is 1 million United think they can save. Ed is just trying to be smart and act like any Accountant would do in the circumstances. Its about cost savings in a period where no income is guaranteed.

In my workplace the CEO has issued a directive that all of us must find areas where money can be saved. Its happening accross all sectors of the economy and Manchester United are no exception.

Good news is Sancho will sign.
 
sammsky1 said:
I think it needs to happen early this week, so the club can change the very negative atmosphere around the club, and build to a crescendo that will inspire a win over Brighton next weekend.

Much like Spurs have done last week with Bale's signing totally changing the narrative from their embarrassing opening day defeat.
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Tbh am sceptical about this one. If they really want that fee all upfront I can see why the club is hesitating (it is a massive amount in one go). No one know what is the end game here, but I would be happy even if he comes on the last day of transfer window.
 
Jim Beam said:
Tbh am sceptical about this one. If they really want that fee all upfront I can see why the club is hesitating (it is a massive amount in one go). No one know what is the end game here, but I would be happy even if he comes on the last day of transfer window.
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Im clutching at any straws I can think of!
 
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