They'd be mad to go over there to career wasteland at their ages. Why would anyone believe that story?
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Greenwood didn’t cost anything. What’s he got to do with FFP?
That makes him very valuable from an FFP perspective
I think Sancho has already said he has no interest in Saudi .
Aside from Rooney.
He teed it up nicely for to jettison Rooney in fairness. The important thing for Fergie there wasn’t Rooney, it was ensuring he absolutely did not go to City and to get his future back under the control of the club.
Moyes fecked it though.
So he was bigger in the end.
A player we buy, say Antony for 100m, gets the buying sum spread over the length of the contract, say, five years. If we sell him for 70 m two years later, we still owe 60 m on the deal, meaning we only go 10 m ahead in terms of FFP. Greenwood is all ours, we owe nothing on him, if we sell him for 50m, its a 50 m plus in the FFP reckoning. Ish.
No, the situation of absolutely not allowing City to get one over United/Fergie was bigger.
He’s a footballer who earns £200k*+ a week for the club we’re fans of and pay to watch. He absolutely does owe us.
He’s not being ground down by the cruel heel of capitalism or abused by his employers FFS.
This ‘German fans 4 Sancho’ crusade is weird man. He’s been crap for 3 years (and for England) and thrown a strop over some harsh but tame words. He’s not fecking Bobby Sands
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You have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to united. What did united do to hurt you or your club? Or is it you just being an Uber member of BDL?
He is just a purist who loves technical players no matter what other flaws they have. He would likely defend Sancho the same if he played in France or Spain instead of Dortmund now and before his move to United.
I think he just didnt fit the profile, together with beeing hyped like hell and really thinking he would come here and run the show this was a disaster waiting to happen. He just doesnt fit the speedy winger type, its more like tikitaka where he would have excelled. I strongly belive that players like Mahrez or Bernardo Silva would have been a failure at United as well.
Thank you, makes sense.
I just didn't see him being sold for much of a fee.
Everyone already knew, give this lad time and space on the ball and he's a maestro. You don't get time and space in the Premier League, it demands athleticism and sharper, more urgent decision making.
The bundesliga is pretty tragic, only three or four teams even bother to press as opposed to every single team in the PL.
The bundesliga is pretty tragic, only three or four teams even bother to press as opposed to every single team in the PL.
I totally agree with what you're saying about a historic problem at the club trying to integrate these types of players...
but Sancho has shown NOTHING. He doesn't have pace or quick feet, ok, we know he's not that type of wide player. But Martial and Rasford, for example, did some nice pass exchanges last season. Bruno and Rashford both have good off the ball movement.. Sancho couldn't play his short passes with any of them, ever. Not one memorable interchange. Never fed the overlapping or underlapping fullback. Nothing at all.
The only talent he ever showed was composure before a few finishes. Literally nothing else. Kagawa and Mkhi did better despite having much less hype and haveing the same issues with team mates and style of play.
The bitch is back
To an extent. He also loves just criticizing Utd in general, and signed up on an internet board to do that.
who's he fecking then
Good stuff Jadon, do well and raise that transfer price for Dortmund. I'd love to see it. Lets try and get at least 50 million back this summer.
I generally don't like tribalism regardless which club and believe 99% of opinions in this thread are based on loyalties instead of critical thinking and building one's own opinion. I don't care which club you support but if you're just a sheep who mindlessly adapts every opinion he thinks he should have as a good United supporter, you annoy me
Actually, I do care about their flaws and think Sancho didn't react very maturely. Moreover, I think he has terrible career planning. But it is not as if that needs anymore pointing out in this thread
That example is a 20m hit on the FFP annually, if you recoup 60m after year 2 in a single payment you are 40million ahead in that fiscal year.
Unless I misunderstood your example and what you meant. FFP only cares about the annual debth, not the long term debt. Which is why Chelsea have been able to spend like drunk oil sheikhs.
Isn’t it a three season span, and amortization factored into it?
My understanding is the 50m you get could be leveraged up to 250m if spread over a 5 year contract. Which is what Chelsea have done, sell Mount and use it to buy everyone. It's an unintended consequence of FFP and needs to be looked at. Clubs are now incentivised to get rid of homegrown talent. Selling a top local prospect could allow you to fill a few gaps in the squad. And lose part of your soul
I like tribes, but tribal tatoos bore me. And isms. As a United fan, I’m always going to chose the club ahead of individuals in a slugfest. This here is not the question, though. If Sancho went to war against Man Utd, it would just be a question of getting rid regardless of right or wrong. But here we have two members of the club in conflict, both part of United. So my incentive is rather to inblinkeredly see who most likely has a point, and who most forwards the club’s interest. The upshot of being a fan is that you get to watch what happens alot more than neutrals, and having followed Sancho at United (and a bit before) for a couple of seasons and Ten Hag at United (and a bit before), it is just an overwhelming bag of small details, large details and hunches over time that points towards a) Sancho having serious issues with acting in the club’s best interest, whereas Ten Hag’s challenge seems partly how to deal with quite a few players who have issues acting in the club’s best interest. Ronaldo situation was brilliantly solved IMO, Maguire has improved after being benched, Varane my jury’s out, but Sancho everything just points to that he is the sole owner of his own problems.I generally don't like tribalism regardless which club and believe 99% of opinions in this thread are based on loyalties instead of critical thinking and building one's own opinion. I don't care which club you support but if you're just a sheep who mindlessly adapts every opinion he thinks he should have as a good United supporter, you annoy me
Actually, I do care about their flaws and think Sancho didn't react very maturely. Moreover, I think he has terrible career planning. But it is not as if that needs anymore pointing out in this thread
You don’t have a clue.
No club on the planet is giving us £30m for Sancho or Antony let alone £50m.
If I didn’t want my coach criticizing me publicly, I would simply do better on the pitch.
I've been following the Sancho situation very closely since he was one of my absolute favorite players when he was playing for Dortmund. I watched their games primarily to see him play and after he left my interest in them dropped significantly. So I'm not exactly a neutral who didn't catch the details or anything like that. And I think that there is not even close to enough information publicly available to judge who is to blame to which extent. You and me only know the top of the iceberg and have no idea what happened below the surface. There are definitely scenarios imaginable that would shed a completely different light on the situation. People like to point out that Sancho always had disciplinary issues but his former club was so concerned about them that they took him back at the first possible occasion. And even his former United coach Rangnick publicly said that he conducted himself perfectly fine under him, effectively refuting Ten Hag's claim that there have been problems with Sancho ever since he joined the club. In fact, if you assume Ten Hag sent Sancho to the training camp because of disciplinary issues then Sancho has already swallowed his pride once without any complaint. And if Ten Hag meant psychic problems with "mental issues" then it sheds a pretty unfavorable light on his treatment of a mentally labile player. One way or another, this is definitely not as one-sided as you depict it.
That most United fans agree with your take and not mine is in my opinion down to them being so fed up with players running the club that they overcompensate now and adopt a "finally! Serves those cnuts right" attitude whenever a manager strongarms a player without asking many questions. But from a management perspective, if you have a team within your organization that rises attention because of continuous infights, maybe even with their team lead, the first thing you assume that there is something wrong with the leadership. But even very concretely, how Ten Hag spoke about Sancho publicly violated some very basic principles of modern leadership. That may appeal to the schadenfreude of the frustrated United fan but overall it is not constructive, forward oriented, diplomatic, intelligent or farsighted to not only criticize your player publicly. And Ten Hag did not only do it once, he doubled down on these statements twice after Sancho was already gone. in fact, from a communicative point of view, those quotes are so clumsy that you have to assume he did it on purpose. Add to that his insistence on a personal apology and all of this comes across as very vane. Regardless of your opinion on Sancho, that is plain and simple terrible leadership.
And yes, I know that some managers criticize players publicly to tease them a bit but that is a very risky stylistic device and if it backfires then you have obviously miscalculated the situation.
Assuming it was a discipline issue then in the corporate world he doesn't have a job on the kind of money he is on. The former McDonalds CEO was fired and forced to pay back every performance and bonus related payment totalling 8 figures because he had sex with another employee and didn't admit to it. That's what happens when you're on C-Suite money and screw up.
Absolutely, Fergie wouldn’t have signed Sancho and if he did he’d be binned by now.
But Sancho is no manager. That aside, from my experience most people in upper management positions are notoriously late which is the primary issue with him.
It's a bit odd the kind of criticism the bundesliga gets sometimes. Admittedly it's toned down a bit but up to recently the argument would be the bundesliga is shit because frantically pressing is basically all they did, regardless of quality. Part of the reason why a lot of spaces often open up for attackers.
Not trying to get into an argument over quality or whether it has improved, but I do think it's a good thing this post-Klopp trend or Red Bull brand of pressing across the board has slowed down a bit and more variety of tactics seem to be emerging again in German football. Obviously pressing is a vital part of the modern game, but if anything German football went a bit over the top in that direction for a good while.
The primary known issue with him at United is that he publically accused his manager of lying and manipulating. I don’t know many workplaces where you keep your position in such a case.
I think you’re right that we don’t know 99% of what’s happening behind the scenes, so I take notice that you speculate what conflicts we have tell us about leadership. I don’t profess to know what Sancho’s leave last season was about.
I agree that answering journalists why a player isn’t in the squad ideally is kept to injuries, tactics and refering to other players deserving it. Hoewever it is a very usual thing with almost any manager from time to time. Often much worse. That response, however, is very unusual. I cannot see one scenario where a player said that publically about Alex Ferguson where that player wouldn’t be finished at the club.
Those workplaces that investigate the incident and find that the manager (who was the first to go public) actually did the things he was accused of and the employee/player only performed rightful self defense. The simple question is - was Sancho dropped for his performances or not? Did EtH want to cover up some other reason by this statement?
The BDL rallying around Sancho is quite funny. Come on lads, he's a waster.
Or was it the butler?
The simple question is not the most interesting nor relevant question here, is it?
It's the hope that kills you really. The thought that we might be able to move Antony on so soon, and for a decent transfer fee at that, sounds so amazing that I would cling to any small hope that it's true.
No chance. That's not hope, it's delusion.
The overuse of pressing and high-lines regardless of squad attributes was definitely a regular criticism for years. Generalised, but not without reason. However, a vague comment about time and space never goes out of fashion when you need a quick comment to put an entire league down.
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