Was MU better with or without him?Why? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
This should really be in the United forum!
MARCHING!
Originally posted by crna guja:
<strong>Was MU better with or without him?Why?
I believe it is not worth crying, if at all that was needed, over this issue. Moreover I would not have a rat playing for me. Stam said to the world:
"SAF, I am a rat!"
No place for him on the team.
Better for the long term. In Ferdinand, Brown and O'Shea we now have three of the best and young centre halves in the league.
Originally posted by blythy:
<strong>
Thankyou!
well is it better or not losing the Best defender in Manutd's history and the most in form defender in the serie A?
Hmm difficult to respond especially when we brought in Blanc instead, had a defense to cry for (last season) and had to spent 30m to partly mend this mistake.
A mistake remains a mistake even when you managed to solve it
Hmm difficult to respond especially when we brought in Blanc instead, had a defense to cry for (last season) and had to spent 30m to partly mend this mistake.
A mistake remains a mistake even when you managed to solve it
unless we're in full posession of the facts, for the real reason why he was sold then we cant say for sure whether it was a mistake or not. Only those within the club know the real reasons.
Great player on his day, but is now consigned to history. Let sleeping dogs lie and get behind our new young guns.
Great player on his day, but is now consigned to history. Let sleeping dogs lie and get behind our new young guns.
Selling Stam was one of the biggest mistakes but I am saying that defending Stam and none of us knows the real story behind selling him for 16 million or so which still doesn't represent his value. It must be a geniune reason and I can't think selling him so we had Blanc is good enough. I will continue to defend Stam always, he was one of the best defenders at this club and I was saddened to see him go. He didn't take any drugs like any of the dutch stars such as Davids as they seem like real professionals.
Done this one to death <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" />
Waste of time this topic - GB, good call.
He's gone hasn't he?
He's gone hasn't he?
Most althletes who are shown to be drug cheats are proffesionals.
he was guilty of something otherwise he wouldnt have been banned would he?
anyway enough of this, been done a squillion times before.
anyway enough of this, been done a squillion times before.
Originally posted by crna guja:
<strong>Was MU better with or without him?Why?
I asked this because Blanc is not kind of player which can be good in defense and in the some time be able of goalscoring like Stam was.Remeber year 1999 with him in the sqad and TREBLE,and year after he left!Maybe I am wrong but defense with Stam,Ferninand,Brown,Silvestre would be better then G.Neville,Ferninand,BLANC and Silvestre.I respect all others opinions,but selling him wasnt best idea ever.
who watches the serie A wel knows what I am saying
The doping scandal started when Zledlek Zeman accused Juventus (expecially Del Piero) of taking illegal drugs (amongst it Creatine) to get their stars back from the treatment room at record times and built up their frail physic ( would it work with Chadwick?)
As the media took a feast of it and forced to act the italian FA started the witch hunting. Doping tests were done in the smallest details perhaps far too in detail
Great players like Davids, Guardiola and Stam (a month before he was tested by Manutd and fount negative) were found guilty and imediatly banned
Once the scoop had cooled out, a serious Italian professor proved that the doping test were so in detail that proved ridiculously inaccurate. For example Panadols were detected on these doping tests and were easily confused with illegal drugs
No official excuse were given by the italian FA but all the players were given a shorter banishing out of football
It is sad that the player's reputation was hindered forever
The doping scandal started when Zledlek Zeman accused Juventus (expecially Del Piero) of taking illegal drugs (amongst it Creatine) to get their stars back from the treatment room at record times and built up their frail physic ( would it work with Chadwick?)
As the media took a feast of it and forced to act the italian FA started the witch hunting. Doping tests were done in the smallest details perhaps far too in detail
Great players like Davids, Guardiola and Stam (a month before he was tested by Manutd and fount negative) were found guilty and imediatly banned
Once the scoop had cooled out, a serious Italian professor proved that the doping test were so in detail that proved ridiculously inaccurate. For example Panadols were detected on these doping tests and were easily confused with illegal drugs
No official excuse were given by the italian FA but all the players were given a shorter banishing out of football
It is sad that the player's reputation was hindered forever
If I recall a month or two before stam left united he had a drugs test I am almost certain united knew that stam would fail a drugs test if he was tested when they decided to sell him. Also I think Stam could have got the club in trouble for what he said in his book and for that he deserved to go.
Jaap Stam had a cracking few years at Old Trafford but selling him was definately the right thing to do. It was a great piece of business.
Bought for £10million at 28
Sold for £16million at 30
2 months after selling him he was banned for drugs use.
It was unlikely he was going to get any better as he got into his 30's.
We struggled last year without him because we didn't really buy anyone to replace him. Larry should only have been short term fix but ended up being a full season and at 35/36, 40+ games is too many especially in a league that is a quick as the premiership
Bought for £10million at 28
Sold for £16million at 30
2 months after selling him he was banned for drugs use.
It was unlikely he was going to get any better as he got into his 30's.
We struggled last year without him because we didn't really buy anyone to replace him. Larry should only have been short term fix but ended up being a full season and at 35/36, 40+ games is too many especially in a league that is a quick as the premiership
I don’t know why I was critised when naming Jaap Stam as the best defender ever coming to OT. After all the majority of the Manutd Supporters (amongst them a pre autobiography SAF) had claimed (while he was with us) that Jaap was our best defender.
I agree that McGrath was a special talent, but Jaap brought in our team a new mentality. When once we used the typical tackle the player and hack the ball up, Jaap was able to combine the aeral protection needed in the English football and introduce the continental play (that was typical in the treble-winning defense)
About Pally, I still hold serious questions whether he can be considered amongst Manutd’s greats. Ok he gave us his 101% and was flawless in air ( no where near to Bruce) but his lack of passing abilities, pace and technique were evident. He was predictable ( always tackling) and was an easy target for great strikers (Del Piero and Romario) I rated Pally but he is nowhere near to Edwards, McGrath, Silvestre and Jaap ( he is easily beaten by Blanc too).
Jaap was a great player and a great teacher and leader in our defense (that what a pre autobiography SAF once said). Someone proposed that it made sense (financially) by selling Stam. But while this problem should not concern the richest club in the world ( we haven’t sold Cantona or Keane when they reached their 30s) I cannot agree that it made financial sense by selling the Dutchman. The facts were that by selling Stam our defense grew so weak that we finished trophyless that season (the season before we won the league with 14 points). Not quite a good result for a PLC were its shares rise and fall depending on our performances (it is calculated that we lost 20m last season
I don’t want to critise SAF because this is a closed issue, but whatever Stam did I think that he deserved another chance (expecially when we were so patient with Keane and Cantona)
I agree that McGrath was a special talent, but Jaap brought in our team a new mentality. When once we used the typical tackle the player and hack the ball up, Jaap was able to combine the aeral protection needed in the English football and introduce the continental play (that was typical in the treble-winning defense)
About Pally, I still hold serious questions whether he can be considered amongst Manutd’s greats. Ok he gave us his 101% and was flawless in air ( no where near to Bruce) but his lack of passing abilities, pace and technique were evident. He was predictable ( always tackling) and was an easy target for great strikers (Del Piero and Romario) I rated Pally but he is nowhere near to Edwards, McGrath, Silvestre and Jaap ( he is easily beaten by Blanc too).
Jaap was a great player and a great teacher and leader in our defense (that what a pre autobiography SAF once said). Someone proposed that it made sense (financially) by selling Stam. But while this problem should not concern the richest club in the world ( we haven’t sold Cantona or Keane when they reached their 30s) I cannot agree that it made financial sense by selling the Dutchman. The facts were that by selling Stam our defense grew so weak that we finished trophyless that season (the season before we won the league with 14 points). Not quite a good result for a PLC were its shares rise and fall depending on our performances (it is calculated that we lost 20m last season
I don’t want to critise SAF because this is a closed issue, but whatever Stam did I think that he deserved another chance (expecially when we were so patient with Keane and Cantona)
When we have won the quadraple at the end of the season you can ask about Stam again! <img src="graemlins/angel.gif" border="0" alt="[Angel]" />
May we win everything this season, but I seriously doubt (altough we had improved a lot) that the treble winning can be repeated (let alone the quadrilupe)
And remember we had to spend 30m to PARTLY mend Stam's mistake
And remember we had to spend 30m to PARTLY mend Stam's mistake
Well all games. Are we talking about the same Pallister? He was an old English type of defender, powerful and unbeatable in air but lacking of technique, pass and pace. SAF's himself had confessed that the lack of pace was the achilles heel in his old guard ( made up of Parker, Pally, Bruce and Irwin) a weakness fully exploited by Barcelona in the 4 - 0 demolition
I agree Mcgrath was ahead of his time but a bit far from Stam's level. Mind you I have chosen Mcgrath in my best ever Manutd team so I really rate Mcgrath. Not to forget Mcgrath drinking problem rarely fount in the continental defenders
I agree Mcgrath was ahead of his time but a bit far from Stam's level. Mind you I have chosen Mcgrath in my best ever Manutd team so I really rate Mcgrath. Not to forget Mcgrath drinking problem rarely fount in the continental defenders
Jaap never really recovered from his injuries. And he wasn't really good at helping the likes of Brown and Silvestre developing their careers. The Jaap of today isn't good enough to play for United and if he was sold today Nazio would be lucky to get even £10M.
Selling him did not cost us the league last season. Not winning at home against the likes of Bolton and West Ham did (and Jaap sure wouldn't have helped us score) and also the fact that Arse improved a lot. I was shocked to see Jaap leave and I thought it was the wrong thing to do. Today however I believe that Fergie was once again right. Few, if any, thinks of Jaap as one of the five or even ten best CDs today.
I'd go as far as saying that the defence we have today is better than the best defence we ever had while Jaap was at the club.
Selling him did not cost us the league last season. Not winning at home against the likes of Bolton and West Ham did (and Jaap sure wouldn't have helped us score) and also the fact that Arse improved a lot. I was shocked to see Jaap leave and I thought it was the wrong thing to do. Today however I believe that Fergie was once again right. Few, if any, thinks of Jaap as one of the five or even ten best CDs today.
I'd go as far as saying that the defence we have today is better than the best defence we ever had while Jaap was at the club.
Do you miss Jaap?
Originally posted by blythy:
<strong>Do you miss Jaap?
Not now, we already have a new crop of defenders who can become even better than him in the future. But then, not missing him now doesn't mean that I need to put shite, unfair comments on him such as crap, slow, liability, etc. He has contributed a lot to us in his years here, especially in the magicial treble year. So I will respect him and admire him forever.
Before Stam left you, you were regarded as the best team in the land.
You were the team to beat.
Like it or not, now Arsenal are.
I'm not going to suggest that the two are directly linked but one thing is for sure; Stam leaving certainly didn't help.
He was your rock. When he left, opposing teams saw a chink in the armour.
You still haven't recovered.
It will take much work and a few years of success to regain the air of invincibility that you had.
That's not going to be easy when the nucleus of your team has to be replaced.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not just some Dipper twisting the knife. What I'm saying is true.
You were the team to beat.
Like it or not, now Arsenal are.
I'm not going to suggest that the two are directly linked but one thing is for sure; Stam leaving certainly didn't help.
He was your rock. When he left, opposing teams saw a chink in the armour.
You still haven't recovered.
It will take much work and a few years of success to regain the air of invincibility that you had.
That's not going to be easy when the nucleus of your team has to be replaced.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not just some Dipper twisting the knife. What I'm saying is true.
Originally posted by Keano's Mental Demons:
<strong>Before Stam left you, you were regarded as the best team in the land.
You were the team to beat.
Like it or not, now Arsenal are.
I'm not going to suggest that the two are directly linked but one thing is for sure; Stam leaving certainly didn't help.
He was your rock. When he left, opposing teams saw a chink in the armour.
You still haven't recovered.
It will take much work and a few years of success to regain the air of invincibility that you had.
That's not going to be easy when the nucleus of your team has to be replaced.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not just some Dipper twisting the knife. What I'm saying is true.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Stam leaving was good. Replacing him with Blanc was not good enough though. Now we have Rio, Brown, Silvestre, G. Neville, O'Shea etc... able to play in the middle as well. So I think we have put the Stam ghost to rest. I actually like the way our defence is set-up nowadays by the way. There seems to be better coordination and a fair amount of pace. Thanks for the concern though. So sweet of you, thinking about others in your time of need.
BTW, I've never seen a pool fan willingly label scousers as Dippers. Nice touch.
Originally posted by Keano's Mental Demons:
<strong>
It's to prove I'm looking at it from your point of view.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Fair enough, but I think you're going too far. Other scousers on the board might get you for this. You've already been labelled well-behaved, so you don't have to bend over backwards to prove yourself.
Anyway, one more point about this. Stam would have tested positive for drugs in Europe during our CL games, so it is moot to consider whether we should have kept him and so on. He would have been banned when we would have needed him most.
I doubt it.
If Stam had remained in England, the levels of banned substances that showed up would have fallen within FA guidelines.
It's no coincidence that Davids, Stam, Couto all played in the Italian league when they were banned.
The Italian doping tests were outrageously strict.
If Stam had remained in England, the levels of banned substances that showed up would have fallen within FA guidelines.
It's no coincidence that Davids, Stam, Couto all played in the Italian league when they were banned.
The Italian doping tests were outrageously strict.
DIFFICULT TO SAY....BUT JUDGE HIM ON HIS ABILITY NOT HIS EXIT FROM THE CLUB.
A GIANT
A GIANT