I'd take a risk on him as a backup striker. The guy is a good goalscorer.
Ivan Toney | Banned until 16th January 2024 Stay on Topic!
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
he was making bets using other parties, and clearly they've ratted on him. more to come me thinks.
8 months looks a lenient sentence, considering therapy of gambling addiction usually takes longer than that.
This seems to have been lost on a lot of people.
It won't be the first time that this sort of thing has happened either but this is just possibly the most high profile case of it so far.
On a human level I actually feel sorry for Toney. He's just had the best season of his career and should be looking at an England call up and potentially a move to a big Premier League club but sadly he's going to be banned until January.
I do think the ban is fair, but also the reaction to it is a bit over the top.
At first I thought, he got lucky with the ban. But yeah, reading this, has been interesting.
Also at same time, he needs help especially if hes addicted to it. And im sure hes not the only one doing this. (Without any evidence and just based on numbers and assumptions, i wouldnt be surprised if there are many players making big bets through third parties.)
Its all a mess because Toney is a walking gambling advert (their sponsors are hollywood bets ffs). Everywhere is plastered with betting and then they think its ok cos you got that big head advert ending it with 'please gamble responsibly'.
Also im going with the theory that players who score and remove their shirt are yellow carded because its 'hiding the sponsors'.
I know people that have gambling addictions and its very difficult to get it under control.
Football is bombarded with it. The removal of betting companies as shirt sponsors is a step in the right direction but doesn't go far enough in my opinion.
The guy clearly needs help.
Was he in the squad and playing at Newcastle?
If he was then I think he's a lucky boy because those are games he could have directly affected
No.
He was on loan at Wigan at the time.
This is from the mirror online
"The FA’s independent commission said that Toney placed 13 bets on his own team between August 2017 and March 2018 and 11 of those were against Newcastle, his parent club, while he was on loan at Wigan. But the independent commission found that he did not gamble on any games in which he was playing himself.
It stated: "There were 13 bets on Mr Toney’s own team to lose in 7 different matches between 22 August 2017 and 3 March 2018. Mr Toney did not play in any of those matches where he placed bets against his loan club as he was not in the match squad or against his parent club as he was on loan"
Yeah, doesn't help with some of the headlines which are misleading. Sky Sports for example have "Toney diagnosed with gambling addiction | 13 bets on his team to lose"
Without reading any further you just assume that's games he played in.
He obviously has a problem and seems to have just started getting the support he needs, it's not really helpful to have journalists trying to make it more sensational.
OK - that's not as bad
He does have a problem but he's not helping himself if he's continuing to gamble on other sports
If he's in contact with the people playing in the game - whilst highly unlikely - I don't think you can totally rule out him being in a position to influence... Even if it's as small as giving a teammate some bad advice or something to that affect.
Hes lucky he wasn't banned for life.
Made 16 bets on his own team to win 15 different games
Bet 13 times on his own team to lose in 7 different matches - (Did not play in any of these)
Made 16 bets on his own team to win 15 different games
Bet 13 times on his own team to lose in 7 different matches - (Did not play in any of these)
You have to believe him but a lot of people who get in trouble like this suddenly become gambling addicts or alcoholics.
I know a dock head who stole credit card information from the place he worked and as soon as he was caught he checked himself into gambling rehab even though gambling had feck all to do with it
If it's true he bet on Brentford to lose he should have been banned for life. As a kid living in Sheffield I remember 3 Wedneday players betting on Wednesday to lose one game in 1962 and all 3 were banned for live and sent to jail for 4 months.
Giving clearly false answers to the investigation isn't great either.
He didn’t play in those games.
There's evidence on his phone and he was up before a shrink but yeah
You just know paddy power are gonna try contact him to do an advert for them.
Also his full name initials
Also his full name initials
I for sure feel bad for him as a person. Hearing he bet on his own team makes me understand the length of the ban, and it could have been worse. I am sure he will be back ready to roll after 8 months.
You just know paddy power are gonna try contact him to do an advert for them.
Also his full name initials
Went to check. Ivan Benjamin Elijah Toney. You couldn't make it up.
I did as well, you really couldn't make it upWent to check. Ivan Benjamin Elijah Toney. You couldn't make it up.
Went to check. Ivan Benjamin Elijah Toney. You couldn't make it up.
FFSSimulated reality surely…
I feel really bad for him, gambling is a horrible addiction and the constant promotion of gambling companies through football is disgusting. Banning Toney is punishing the user not the pusher.
That said it’s hard to argue against a long ban, just hope the Premier league have the guts to take a consistent view when they look at City’s actual cheating compared to Toney betting creating a situation where there could be a perception of an incentive for potential cheating.
That said it’s hard to argue against a long ban, just hope the Premier league have the guts to take a consistent view when they look at City’s actual cheating compared to Toney betting creating a situation where there could be a perception of an incentive for potential cheating.
The guy clearly needs help.
Okay, he's lost me here. Is he saying that he's not guilty?
I don’t think anyone is going to go to a player on loan for advice
Because players can't be friends with on loan players?!
Crazy right? I was thinking no way, gotta be a wiki joke edit or somethingWent to check. Ivan Benjamin Elijah Toney. You couldn't make it up.
That is just incredible! I'm just speechless.
I don't know what that tweet was trying to say, his lawyer or agent surely couldn't recommend that?
I think he's wise to keep his head down, he could have been facing a lot worse. His employer could sue gross misconduct by saying he couldn't possibly be 100% focused with all that going on.
I worked at a high level in investment business and it was a contract requirement not to buy any investment for any reason without prior approval, regardless of whether it would be fine in respect of the law.
I'm surprised players contracts aren't managed like this tbh, sure they will now.
But yes the hypocrisy of the sport and its connection to betting is rank.
He says he wants to play at the highest level. But then he goes on to say he's a Liverpool fan, who is Liverpool "at heart".
In fairness, he does also add that he likes the way Arsenal play, and was a Berbatov fan in the past (01:21:41).
I think if he's going anywhere, Anfield is his preference. We can forget about this one, lads and ladettes.
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Fair enough for him being honest about the lack of work ethic when he was younger etc.
Don’t agree with his views that it was wrong that he missed the World Cup because of the FA coming out with the allegations and then him being punished kind of twice for getting the ban later.
That’s how allegations work. They then need to investigate the allegations. It was the correct call by the FA because if those allegations came out in public during the WC through the media, it would’ve been too much chaos and drama around the team.
This was also their way of proactively controlling the discussions on ”why wasn’t Toney picked?”. Again all about trying to keep the whole camp and the media around it optimal for England to do well. Which is the FA’s responsibility.
Fair enough I can understand him being down on missing the WC but mate, you caused this by your own actions.
Toney seems very defensive about the whole subject, which I can understand to a degree. Just doesn’t sit right with me that he either directly or indirectly shifts a lot of blame on the FA and the media (they do deserve some of it), but fails to actually own up and take responsibility for doing something that is against the rules.
Finally I hope he becomes more mature and less stubborn when it comes to asking for help and accepting therapy etc., if he needs it in the future. He seems to hold on to this tough guy image but I genuinely hope it doesn't end up costing him in terms of his mental wellbeing.
Don’t agree with his views that it was wrong that he missed the World Cup because of the FA coming out with the allegations and then him being punished kind of twice for getting the ban later.
That’s how allegations work. They then need to investigate the allegations. It was the correct call by the FA because if those allegations came out in public during the WC through the media, it would’ve been too much chaos and drama around the team.
This was also their way of proactively controlling the discussions on ”why wasn’t Toney picked?”. Again all about trying to keep the whole camp and the media around it optimal for England to do well. Which is the FA’s responsibility.
Fair enough I can understand him being down on missing the WC but mate, you caused this by your own actions.
Toney seems very defensive about the whole subject, which I can understand to a degree. Just doesn’t sit right with me that he either directly or indirectly shifts a lot of blame on the FA and the media (they do deserve some of it), but fails to actually own up and take responsibility for doing something that is against the rules.
Finally I hope he becomes more mature and less stubborn when it comes to asking for help and accepting therapy etc., if he needs it in the future. He seems to hold on to this tough guy image but I genuinely hope it doesn't end up costing him in terms of his mental wellbeing.
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Anyone else get the feeling he isn’t being 100% honest?
He doesn’t quite own it all, claiming he doesn’t remember the bets against his own team (the most damming charge) to lose, but accepts it anyway just to get it all done.
Mentions they’d have people visit the clubs pre season to discuss betting but because they don’t explicitly say ‘do not bet’ he didn’t realise they actually couldn’t. Despite it being obviously not allowed, and with surely plenty of examples of other players accused of match fixing around the world over the years.
Used someone else to bet for him not because he’s a Premier League footballer but because he didn’t want his mother finding out, which I can somewhat understand having had an addiction previously, but you’re telling me he really didn’t know it was forbidden?
Claims it was all set up perfectly so he would miss the World Cup. When asked if they made an example out of him he thinks he was, and doesn’t think that’s right. They should absolutely make an example out of him, it won’t have the same ring to it if they banned a League 2 player. They need to show that you absolutely cannot do this on the game, and these are the consequences.
Just own the thing, nothing wrong with being addicted and hopefully he receives the help now but he will never get over it if he can’t be 100% honest about it all.
What I will also say, I do agree with him regarding not being able to train with the team. Having the right people around you can massively help in difficult situations and isolating him will definitely make him suffer more. Ban him from playing, fine him, but let him at least have the daily support of his team mates.
He doesn’t quite own it all, claiming he doesn’t remember the bets against his own team (the most damming charge) to lose, but accepts it anyway just to get it all done.
Mentions they’d have people visit the clubs pre season to discuss betting but because they don’t explicitly say ‘do not bet’ he didn’t realise they actually couldn’t. Despite it being obviously not allowed, and with surely plenty of examples of other players accused of match fixing around the world over the years.
Used someone else to bet for him not because he’s a Premier League footballer but because he didn’t want his mother finding out, which I can somewhat understand having had an addiction previously, but you’re telling me he really didn’t know it was forbidden?
Claims it was all set up perfectly so he would miss the World Cup. When asked if they made an example out of him he thinks he was, and doesn’t think that’s right. They should absolutely make an example out of him, it won’t have the same ring to it if they banned a League 2 player. They need to show that you absolutely cannot do this on the game, and these are the consequences.
Just own the thing, nothing wrong with being addicted and hopefully he receives the help now but he will never get over it if he can’t be 100% honest about it all.
What I will also say, I do agree with him regarding not being able to train with the team. Having the right people around you can massively help in difficult situations and isolating him will definitely make him suffer more. Ban him from playing, fine him, but let him at least have the daily support of his team mates.
Very much agree with everything you just wrote.
Also thought it was quite shitty of him openly discussing moving on from the club. He's got no loyalty by the sound of him either.
His actions have ensured he never gets a move to a top team unfortunately for him. He'll be one of those strikers like Beattie or Johnson who are good but never get the big move.
The interview completely put me off the idea. He's full of shit.
To claim he put bets through friends accounts, "so his parents didn't see it", whilst simultaneously claiming he "didn't know you couldn't bet on football" is nonsense of the highest order.
In fairness to Steven Bartlett, he clearly didn't buy it. Neither did the FA.
To claim he put bets through friends accounts, "so his parents didn't see it", whilst simultaneously claiming he "didn't know you couldn't bet on football" is nonsense of the highest order.
In fairness to Steven Bartlett, he clearly didn't buy it. Neither did the FA.
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