it's not giggs or becks fault.

[RUnited]

I've seriously have had enough of people blaming out players for not playing well, esp giggs and becks.

i'm tired of listening to complains about our players not performing.

it's because SAF is playing them out of position, doesn't anyone GET THIS???? FFS!!!

either:

1. SAF changes tactics and play his players in their positions.

2. Players get used to playing out of their positions.

anyhow, we will be beat the crap out of the feckin scoushit and the arsrholes.

 

[Spoony]

thought so.

SAF told them to start in defence, hence the problem.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Spoony:
<strong>thought so.

SAF told them to start in defence, hence the problem.</strong><hr></blockquote>

don't be a feckin idiot man.

becks is playing all over the field.. giggs is pushing inside.. no one's starting in defence. don't try to get smart. do you even watch the games?

 

[gvnrav005@uct]

To be honest, I do think that Beckham has a bit to do with it. He has started coming infield much to often instead of supplying his killer cross, thereby making the strikers job more difficult, while cramping the midfield a bit.

 

[WeasteDevil]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

don't be a feckin idiot man.

becks is playing all over the field.. giggs is pushing inside.. no one's starting in defence. don't try to get smart. do you even watch the games?</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> That's the first time I've seen you get upset with another poster!

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by gvnrav005@uct:
<strong>To be honest, I do think that Beckham has a bit to do with it. He has started coming infield much to often instead of supplying his killer cross, thereby making the strikers job more difficult, while cramping the midfield a bit.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Alex has actually said that he instructed Giggs and Beckham to come infield more in order to score more goals themselves - which they are doing - just at the expense of the strikers!

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by gvnrav005@uct:
<strong>To be honest, I do think that Beckham has a bit to do with it. He has started coming infield much to often instead of supplying his killer cross, thereby making the strikers job more difficult, while cramping the midfield a bit.</strong><hr></blockquote>

exactly. i think it's SAF decisions. if it's becks' own decision to play infield (clearly ruining the team's performance) don't you think SAF would have stopped it already? being as tough as SAF is i don't think he would stand his players playing according to their pleasure like this.

IMO it's SAF who's making these plays happening, no doubt about it.

 

[jedi master yoda]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

.....becks is playing all over the field...</strong><hr></blockquote>

exactly, you jackass.....if Beckham could just stay out on the bloody right wing, where he's suppossed to be instead of running around like a headless chicken all the time, we'd have a whole lot more control in midfield!! it's not a case of SAF playing people out of position, it's more like Beckham thinking he's some bloody primma donna capable of winning matches all on his own....it's getting so damned sickening these days....can't wait for Keano to get back and tell the blonde one to plunk his ass out on the right wing and keep it there....Beckham's got to understand it should the players finding him and him doing his magic from the right wing rather than going in search of the ball leaving the right side of midfield so vulnerable.....crumbs, really miss Keano does jedi master......

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by jedi master yoda:
<strong>

exactly, you jackass.....if Beckham could just stay out on the bloody right wing, where he's suppossed to be instead of running around like a headless chicken all the time, we'd have a whole lot more control in midfield!! it's not a case of SAF playing people out of position, it's more like Beckham thinking he's some bloody primma donna capable of winning matches all on his own....it's getting so damned sickening these days....can't wait for Keano to get back and tell the blonde one to plunk his ass out on the right wing and keep it there....Beckham's got to understand it should the players finding him and him doing his magic from the right wing rather than going in search of the ball leaving the right side of midfield so vulnerable.....crumbs, really miss Keano does jedi master......</strong><hr></blockquote>

feckin a'! you don't think SAF is big enough to tell the 'blonde one' to keep out wide?????? are you ignorant?????

we all know he's ruining the team's performance by pushing inside.. he's been doing it all season long.. if SAF also notices don't you think he would have stopped this? the point is he HAS NOT Stopped becks from pushing inside.. the same way he hasn't stopped giggs from pushing inside.. because it's HIS plans. you're the jackass not seeing this.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Where you been Jedi?

Don't you recall Alex making this point? Becks did score more goals than ever before, and is vice captain and does affect the game like this. Christ, against Leicester he was actually a central midfielder, and not for the first time. You can't blame him for that!

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>Where you been Jedi?

Don't you recall Alex making this point? Becks did score more goals than ever before, and is vice captain and does affect the game like this. Christ, against Leicester he was actually a central midfielder, and not for the first time. You can't blame him for that!</strong><hr></blockquote>

thanx for your backing. man it's so dumb seeing people thinkin becks is doing it by himself..

it's all SAF's consents.. both giggs and becks.. i'm so wary of people thinking becks and giggs are not playing well.. it's all SAF's responsibility.. if it works out then we'll win the league by storm and the CL too! but if it doesn't work out then i really would not be able to stand people blaming our players when clearly it's our manager dictating the show.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by gvnrav005@uct:
<strong>To be honest, I do think that Beckham has a bit to do with it. He has started coming infield much to often instead of supplying his killer cross, thereby making the strikers job more difficult, while cramping the midfield a bit.</strong><hr></blockquote>

it's SAF orders!!! don't you think SAF would have stopped becks' playing out of position by now? you sthink SAF is scared of becks? you gotta be kiddin me mate.

 

[Neil Thomson]

It might be as a response to Beckham and Giggs being marked out of the game, and losing (or never having) the ability to beat their markers. Giggs isn't beating full backs for speed this season, time and again I've seen them keep up with him and dispossess him. If this is the case, I can see what he's trying to do, but I don't think you can just sacrifice width and crosses like that, its an essential part of a team.

 

[Ever hopefull]

I've got no problem with Becks and Giggs moving infield occassionally, as long as the full backs are able to get forward and provide some width.
But the fact of the matter is that they need to play mostly on the wings. We've always played with great width and that has been the key to many of our success.
Becks and Giggsy are not the only ones to blame for our relatively poor form. When we lose the team must take the reponsibility.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> That's the first time I've seen you get upset with another poster!</strong><hr></blockquote>

i'm tired weaste.. i really am.. people think becks is responsible for this.. it's crazy.. how is possible that a player plays out of his positions for 15 games in a row without a manager's consent?

if he had in fact been pushin inside under his own wills without SAF's consent then his ass would have been dropped like last season.. but the fact is it hasn't happen.. and you know what? the signs all point to SAF being the responsible one for this tactic.. i can't take people blaming becks for this anymore.. i'm sick and tired of seeing our players getting slated for these poor and unthoughtful reasons.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by Ever hopefull:
<strong>I've got no problem with Becks and Giggs moving infield occassionally, as long as the full backs are able to get forward and provide some width.
But the fact of the matter is that they need to play mostly on the wings. We've always played with great width and that has been the key to many of our success.
Becks and Giggsy are not the only ones to blame for our relatively poor form. When we lose the team must take the reponsibility.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The buck stops with the manager imo. I get the impression from this mornings comments that he knows he's got to be ruthless to turn things round.

 

[RUnited]

you people who think becks and giggs are doing poorly.. you think they are pushin inside at their own wills??? after 10 years of playing wide out where the feck do you think these two suddenly get ideas to push inside?

i know becks always said he wanted to play in the middle.. but when did you ever hear him say he wanted to play on the LEFT side of the field!??!?!?!?! he took a shot from the LEFT in the Southampton game.. what the feck was that about?!?!?!

i have not seen giggs dribble down the left in months.. you think he's suddenly decided this season not to dribble anymore?!?! after 10 years of doing this exact job?!?!?! are you nuts?!?!?!

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
The buck stops with the manager imo. I get the impression from this mornings comments that he knows he's got to be ruthless to turn things round.</strong><hr></blockquote>

it has to stop with SAF.. either he's pushing forward with 4-4-1-1 and we STOP blaming our players for the poor performance.. or we run a protest against SAF tactics.

i'm supporting SAF. but i'm really really tired of people thinkin our players are not up to performance.. it's SAF's plans and tactics that's undermining our performances.. it's not because giggs and becks are suddenly not good anymore. that's the craziest idea i've ever heard in my whole life.

 

[Amir]

Beckham is just not in form. When he's in form he can do that current role well as well. Even when he gets to the right and deliever crossed they are poor now. It's not his position, it's his form.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

it has to stop with SAF.. either he's pushing forward with 4-4-1-1 and we STOP blaming our players for the poor performance.. or we run a protest against SAF tactics.

i'm supporting SAF. but i'm really really tired of people thinkin our players are not up to performance.. it's SAF's plans and tactics that's undermining our performances.. it's not because giggs and becks are suddenly not good anymore. that's the craziest idea i've ever heard in my whole life.</strong><hr></blockquote>
When TV took over Leeds he changed their system, and now they're shit. Since we went to 4-5-1 we've had our worst ever Premiership finish, and haven't had one high quality performance this season. If he's not careful, we won't qualify for the CL, we had to go through a qualifier this year - and we lost away to some Hungarians! If we don't get into the CL (I think we will this season cos of lack of competition for the 3rd and 4th spot - but I'm worried about next season) then SAF will be sacked because his contract requires him to qualify each season.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>Beckham is just not in form. When he's in form he can do that current role well as well. Even when he gets to the right and deliever crossed they are poor now. It's not his position, it's his form.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Position affects form - e.g. Scholes last season.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>Beckham is just not in form. When he's in form he can do that current role well as well. Even when he gets to the right and deliever crossed they are poor now. It's not his position, it's his form.</strong><hr></blockquote>

you must be kidding right?

how can you cross properly when there's only ONE striker waiting to head in the ball? he only crosses the balls when he's desperate.. don't you notice? he would cross when he has no where else to go.. it used to be that he would just drive down the right to make that cross.. we used to have atleast TWO people waiting in the middle to finish the job.. now we have only RVN. it's NOT enough.

it's not his form.. it's the tactics he has had to be dealing with this season. same with 4-4-1-1.. you can't change to 4-4-2 and win right away.. it's never going to happen.. everybody needs time to adapt..

same goes with becks pushing inside because of SAF orders. you cannot expect him to play well right away.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
When TV took over Leeds he changed their system, and now they're shit. Since we went to 4-5-1 we've had our worst ever Premiership finish, and haven't had one high quality performance this season. If he's not careful, we won't qualify for the CL, we had to go through a qualifier this year - and we lost away to some Hungarians! If we don't get into the CL (I think we will this season cos of lack of competition for the 3rd and 4th spot - but I'm worried about next season) then SAF will be sacked because his contract requires him to qualify each season.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i agree 100%. quality post mate.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Position affects form - e.g. Scholes last season.</strong><hr></blockquote>

again, for just 7 words. quality post!

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>then SAF will be sacked because his contract requires him to qualify each season.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

what.. no more stupid comments to make?

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Position affects form - e.g. Scholes last season.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Chicken and egg stuff. Did the position and formation affect form or did the disappointing form effect the formation and made it look bad?

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

what.. no more stupid comments to make?</strong><hr></blockquote>

So saying Beckham is in bad form is a stupid comment?

I just wondered where he conjured up that 'It's in Fergie's contract that he must quality to the CL every season' stuff.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

Chicken and egg stuff. Did the position and formation affect form or did the disappointing form effect the formation and made it look bad?</strong><hr></blockquote>

no chicken and egg anywhere.

of coz it's the formation that makes your form goes bad for OVER A YEAR. with the same formation of 4-4-2 our players used to hit a bad patch maybe one month a season.. but add this to the playing out of positions with 4-4-1-1 equation.. you will get players out of form for much longer periods. and that's exactly what's happening to our players..

they're NOT responsible. it's the MANAGER who has to take the responsibility. no doubt about it.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

So saying Beckham is in bad form is a stupid comment?

I just wondered where he conjured up that 'It's in Fergie's contract that he must quality to the CL every season' stuff.</strong><hr></blockquote>

yes, saying that becks is in bad form is a stupid and uneduated comment. he's playing out of position that's why he's out of form. it's not his fault. it's quite clearly SAF intentions to make this happen.

United sets a budget to finish atleast 3rd in the EPL and go atleast as far as quarter finals of the CL (according to someone in the forum) and if we don't make this then SAF's job will be in serious jeopardy.

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

yes, saying that becks is in bad form is a stupid and uneduated comment. he's playing out of position that's why he's out of form. it's not his fault. it's quite clearly SAF intentions to make this happen.

United sets a budget to finish atleast 3rd in the EPL and go atleast as far as quarter finals of the CL (according to someone in the forum) and if we don't make this then SAF's job will be in serious jeopardy.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Beckham stuff is an opinion. Scholesy didn't blame his performances last season all on the formation, has he? And he has been playing much better this season, in whatever position.

As for United and Fergie, no doubt United set their budget on basic CL success. But as far as to say it's in Fergie's contract that he must deliever it - I reckon it's a joke.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

Beckham stuff is an opinion. Scholesy didn't blame his performances last season all on the formation, has he? And he has been playing much better this season, in whatever position.

</strong> <hr></blockquote>

of coz he did! both SAF and Scholes admitted they couldn't manage this formation then because Scholes couldn't manage... that's why scholes was on the bench a lot.. but he kept trying and he has almost succeeded. this is EXACTLY what's happening with becks and giggs.. it's the formation and tactics that's taking away their great style of play.. if we succeed then all good and well.. but if we don't then it will be SAF faults, and not the players'.

<strong>
As for United and Fergie, no doubt United set their budget on basic CL success. But as far as to say it's in Fergie's contract that he must deliever it - I reckon it's a joke.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i don't know about the contract, but i do believe SAF's job will be on the line if this doesn't happen.

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

of coz it's the formation that makes your form goes bad for OVER A YEAR.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Beckham was terrific for around three months before his injury last season. And he wasn't playing on the right wing exclusively then or even creating much with his crosses. But he was playing well.

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>i don't know about the contract, but i do believe SAF's job will be on the line if this doesn't happen.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I didn't question that, although I'm not quite rushing yet there.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

Beckham was terrific for around three months before his injury last season. And he wasn't playing on the right wing exclusively then or even creating much with his crosses. But he was playing well.</strong><hr></blockquote>

amir.. he's moving around so much we can spot him on the left many times in a game.. can you recall any game that becks was on the left last season for more than 2 times in 90 minutes? forget last season.. do you recall this at ANY time over the past 8 years he's been playing for us? even in the youth game?

you think he suddenly got this idea and run over to the left side to try and create things? becks obeys SAF like a father.. you think he would keep doing things against SAF's wishes for 15 games in a row?

my point is it's SAF's responsibilty for becks playing in this way.. and if we fail it will not be becks' fault.. and if we succeed all credits will go to SAF and not to becks either.

 

[RUnited]

i would not argue had becks been trying to only push inside to play in the middle.. but i'm arguing with you because he's going all the way to the left and he never said once he wanted to play there.. the point is it's SAF who's making this happen.

 

[golden_blunder]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

Beckham was terrific for around three months before his injury last season. And he wasn't playing on the right wing exclusively then or even creating much with his crosses. But he was playing well.</strong><hr></blockquote>

good point. in terms of goals last season didnt becks finish on 17? his best ever tally and superb for a midfielder.
Ive said it before and ill say it again, Becks hasnt been the same since his injury. He's been playing non-stop since the WC and it looks to me like he needs a good break (no pun intended) Unfortunately we dont have anyone who can play out there and give us the same balance at present. Its alright playing Scholes, veron, ole or Forlan out there but then we lose the balance & the team loses shape.
United need to bring in cover for that right MF slot. I suggested Glen Little as a cheap alternative as hes quick, strong and can cross. But seems like no-one knows who he is <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>
my point is it's SAF's responsibilty for becks playing in this way.. and if we fail it will not be becks' fault.. and if we succeed all credits will go to SAF and not to becks either.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Wrong there. It's always the manager's fault and the player's heroics.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by golden_blunder:
<strong>

good point. in terms of goals last season didnt becks finish on 17? his best ever tally and superb for a midfielder.
Ive said it before and ill say it again, Becks hasnt been the same since his injury. He's been playing non-stop since the WC and it looks to me like he needs a good break (no pun intended) Unfortunately we dont have anyone who can play out there and give us the same balance at present. Its alright playing Scholes, veron, ole or Forlan out there but then we lose the balance & the team loses shape.
United need to bring in cover for that right MF slot. I suggested Glen Little as a cheap alternative as hes quick, strong and can cross. But seems like no-one knows who he is <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

we went back to 4-4-2 and that's when becks got back to full strength. it was quite obvious to see. plus he never went all the way left last season in his plays.. i don't think he even knows what's on the left side of the field..

and even you say we need Glenn Litle to substitute for becks because he can cross.. becks is not crossing anymore.. you really think he doesn't want to cross? you really think he doesn't want to create assists? it's SAF not letting him do his bect job.. we only have 1 forward.. it's not enough for the crosses.. even Glenn Little will be forced to play inside.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

Wrong there. It's always the manager's fault and the player's heroics.</strong><hr></blockquote>

so you are agreeing with me that it's SAF responsibilties for Becks' style of play these days? you're finally seeing it the right way?