Let's not get carried away with the Veron bashing. True he made an error today (I'd like to meet a person who doesn't ever make mistakes), but so has Barthez, so has Blanc, so has Brown etc. It's easy to scapegoat one player who otherwise wouldn't be criticized if Ruud, Diego, or Giggsy would've put away their chances today.
It's all over now....
- Thread starter ForeverRed
- Start date
This defeat has certainly hurt Uniteds title chances but the race is far from over. Arsenal may have 2 games in hand but they have to win them and still come to OT. One thing is certain United have to win at Leeds and Chelsea, no other result will do imo and rely on Arsenal and Liverpool to drop some points. Liverpool fans may be smiling now but that could all be different tomorrow if Chelsea win at Anfield and the way they've been playing they are more than capable of doing that. If it comes down to a choice of Liverpool or Arsenal to win the tile if we don't then I'll take Arsenal as they play, by far, the more attractive football.
<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />
Well, you must be religious to seriously believe Arsenal won't clinch the titles now, as double winners. They have the quality, the experience and hunger for it. They will take this, make no mistake. And if they do as they should, they will have deserved it, 'cause Liverpool still isn't polished enough just yet, and we have been making way too many slip-ups this season.
You just don't make so many mistakes as we have done, and go on unpunished. And even more important; you don't do such mistakes against such sides as we have done at our own home-turf. And most important, you don't do that in a time like this.
The engine isn't a Ferrari this season. It is still in the garage for some serious surgery. Sure, we pack some steam now and then on test-runs, but there are many parts that is either not attuned rite, or just needs to be taken out and replaced.
Ofcourse Veron is a let-down, and might easily be a permanent mistake. But he could also be a new man next season playing for us still, for all we know. The essence is not him, but how the team play. And that hasn't been even close to what we all hoped for. Surprisingly, we have been a more balanced team in Europe than in England. I think, as many, that several factors have been poisonous to us in some campaigns: the Fergie-matter, the Beckham-issue, the Barthez-displays, the Stam-factor, the Blanc-speed... Toss in the mistake of excluding Scholes almost permanently due to a poor, poor Veron, and a very, very nervous and shattered defence, and you have it. Plus, Fergie thought it was smart to fix the working machine 4-4-2, with an untested 4-5-1; for a loooong period of time.
We have made errors in plenty, plus we have been in all kinds of unfortunate mishaps as well. Taken that in respect I think we have done well. We can still win 2 trophies. But will we? Seriously, do we want to win? Are we that hungry? Have we deserved it? I think not. Hungry people fight for their crumbs. We are fat now. Let's let Liverpool, Arsenal, the spanish and the germans have some more glory. Heck, even loser-sides in the Prem show more skill and attitude than we do. We don't want trophies anymore. We like museums. And our trophy-cabinet is way too full already. Right?
We have some serious home-work to do. All of us.
<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />
Well, you must be religious to seriously believe Arsenal won't clinch the titles now, as double winners. They have the quality, the experience and hunger for it. They will take this, make no mistake. And if they do as they should, they will have deserved it, 'cause Liverpool still isn't polished enough just yet, and we have been making way too many slip-ups this season.
You just don't make so many mistakes as we have done, and go on unpunished. And even more important; you don't do such mistakes against such sides as we have done at our own home-turf. And most important, you don't do that in a time like this.
The engine isn't a Ferrari this season. It is still in the garage for some serious surgery. Sure, we pack some steam now and then on test-runs, but there are many parts that is either not attuned rite, or just needs to be taken out and replaced.
Ofcourse Veron is a let-down, and might easily be a permanent mistake. But he could also be a new man next season playing for us still, for all we know. The essence is not him, but how the team play. And that hasn't been even close to what we all hoped for. Surprisingly, we have been a more balanced team in Europe than in England. I think, as many, that several factors have been poisonous to us in some campaigns: the Fergie-matter, the Beckham-issue, the Barthez-displays, the Stam-factor, the Blanc-speed... Toss in the mistake of excluding Scholes almost permanently due to a poor, poor Veron, and a very, very nervous and shattered defence, and you have it. Plus, Fergie thought it was smart to fix the working machine 4-4-2, with an untested 4-5-1; for a loooong period of time.
We have made errors in plenty, plus we have been in all kinds of unfortunate mishaps as well. Taken that in respect I think we have done well. We can still win 2 trophies. But will we? Seriously, do we want to win? Are we that hungry? Have we deserved it? I think not. Hungry people fight for their crumbs. We are fat now. Let's let Liverpool, Arsenal, the spanish and the germans have some more glory. Heck, even loser-sides in the Prem show more skill and attitude than we do. We don't want trophies anymore. We like museums. And our trophy-cabinet is way too full already. Right?
We have some serious home-work to do. All of us.
<img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" />
It was all over when we lost to Chelsea and West Ham as well wasn't it? 
I await the inevitable 'Fergie has lost the plot' and 'these players should be sold' threads....
I await the inevitable 'Fergie has lost the plot' and 'these players should be sold' threads....
Arsenal have just lost Pires for (up to) 4 weeks. That may well turn some of their bankers into dropped points as he's been THE creative spark for them when they've needed some of it this season. Liverpool have to play a VERY in form Chelsea tomorrow to capitalize in today's result. If they lose, they're still behind Utd. Of course, Utd have to play Chelsea as well, but at least it's in our own hands then.
(However, if the poo beat Chelsea, with the run in they have after that, things will start to look a bit grim)
(However, if the poo beat Chelsea, with the run in they have after that, things will start to look a bit grim)
Ps: Fergie has lost the plot and Forlan should be sold.
Originally posted by barca1999:
<strong>It was all over when we lost to Chelsea and West Ham as well wasn't it?
I await the inevitable 'Fergie has lost the plot' and 'these players should be sold' threads....</strong><hr></blockquote>
agreed.
its sport..you win some, you lose some... big deal!! just enjoy the ride.
i don't take victory for granted... back in the 80's a FA cup triumph was enough for me.. pity that the new generation of 'fans' don't realise that its a privilege to follow such a successful side. We didn't always win league titles!!
anyway, only a naive person would write off United.
SHIT here come the highlights on ITV1 !!!
Its down to LFC and Arsenal now
Originally posted by njred:
<strong>Its down to LFC and Arsenal now
Fortunately I've just read that Pires will be out for at least a month... giant blow for Arse!!!
Originally posted by barca1999:
<strong>It was all over when we lost to Chelsea and West Ham as well wasn't it?
I await the inevitable 'Fergie has lost the plot' and 'these players should be sold' threads....</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's true though
When we had that 8 game winning streak, Fergie never changed the winning team. Why did he do it now?!?
PS. Is forlan left footed or right footed. cause, he could be our replacement for Giggs, at least until he sorts out his finishing.
PS. Is forlan left footed or right footed. cause, he could be our replacement for Giggs, at least until he sorts out his finishing.
Red Devils - nil desperandum! As Lenny Kravitz sang, `It aint over til it`s over`. Don`t give up as we don`t know what Arsenal and Liverpool will do. They may choke and their opponents may be more desperate than them.
This game we love is a crazy, unpredictable ride. So let`s not hammer our lads - let`s keep cheering them on until the very finish of this season.
Don`t be too hard on the team - we have all seen how some days things just don`t go right and all teams have those days. I don`t think we can call Ruud and Ryan bad finishers on the basis of this game. The lads were unlucky but the Arse and stagnant Pool can also have a bad day.
IT AINT OVER YET!
This game we love is a crazy, unpredictable ride. So let`s not hammer our lads - let`s keep cheering them on until the very finish of this season.
Don`t be too hard on the team - we have all seen how some days things just don`t go right and all teams have those days. I don`t think we can call Ruud and Ryan bad finishers on the basis of this game. The lads were unlucky but the Arse and stagnant Pool can also have a bad day.
IT AINT OVER YET!
Originally posted by DanishDevil:
<strong>
Fortunately I've just read that Pires will be out for at least a month... giant blow for Arse!!!
Unfortunately for us, Arsenal seem to be able to carry their injuries and suspensions better than us whereas we hve struggled at times when we have missed one or two players
Our squad isn't as strong as it looks
Originally posted by giggsgirl:
<strong>
Don`t be too hard on the team - we have all seen how some days things just don`t go right and all teams have those days. I don`t think we can call Ruud and Ryan bad finishers on the basis of this game. The lads were unlucky but the Arse and stagnant Pool can also have a bad day.
IT AINT OVER YET!</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you are refering to my post about finishing, I meant Forlan's finishing. He needs to shake off the presure, and he just might do it while playing as back up for Giggs since he won't be required to score while on the left wing.
BTW. It wouldn't hurt if Giggsy did some finishing practice, too. I remember that he could have put the game at Riazor away if he scored a sitter, plus the one agains Bayern, at least those are the ones I can remember right now. Well maybe he could have scored today as well. Just ask Ruud for a few tips Giggsy!
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>
Unfortunately for us, Arsenal seem to be able to carry their injuries and suspensions better than us whereas we hve struggled at times when we have missed one or two players
Our squad isn't as strong as it looks
IMO, he saved them agains Villa last week, and it seems he makes crutial assists. I think this will really hit 'em.
Nothing is over though, I believe that if we can win the remainder of the games we'll win the title. Henry suspension is also coming up. what's worring is that we might not be able to beat Chelsea and maybe Leeds.
Time and time again, the United coaches has got no tactical awareness. Maybe they are too complacent thinking that no matter what, United can do it against Boro.
The following are some observations in which during the course of the game some advices/decisions may change the result.
1) Diego Forlan is too quick in releasing the ball. He has'nt got the confidence in holding the ball up or turning with it. This has given the Boro defenders comfort and time.
2)Nicky Butt is no more the usual as he is now more a "holding player" and not the tenacious one that we really needed especially against Ince. Maybe, he has too much respect for Ince.
3) Favouritism has given Garry Neville the right back slot. It should be Phil who could actually do a better attacking job than Garry. Garry is so accustomed to the CB position that he is still trying to get use to the RB position.
4)Long range shooting is required to break down these type of tight and conjested defence. Veron, Becks and Scholes should be encouraged to shoot more often even from far. They have 2 reasonably good CBs who is good in the air and there is no use sending in high crosses.
Now United fate to the championship lies in the hands of others. There is no more advantage in the remaining games. To be successful, the coaches and assistants has got to be aware and give good advices to SAF.
The following are some observations in which during the course of the game some advices/decisions may change the result.
1) Diego Forlan is too quick in releasing the ball. He has'nt got the confidence in holding the ball up or turning with it. This has given the Boro defenders comfort and time.
2)Nicky Butt is no more the usual as he is now more a "holding player" and not the tenacious one that we really needed especially against Ince. Maybe, he has too much respect for Ince.
3) Favouritism has given Garry Neville the right back slot. It should be Phil who could actually do a better attacking job than Garry. Garry is so accustomed to the CB position that he is still trying to get use to the RB position.
4)Long range shooting is required to break down these type of tight and conjested defence. Veron, Becks and Scholes should be encouraged to shoot more often even from far. They have 2 reasonably good CBs who is good in the air and there is no use sending in high crosses.
Now United fate to the championship lies in the hands of others. There is no more advantage in the remaining games. To be successful, the coaches and assistants has got to be aware and give good advices to SAF.
After reading this entire post:
Don't be so arrogant as to assume that no other team can win the Premiership, it is only that Manchester United loses it. I've been reading at the Cafe for the entire season that this is a test of who's best over the course of 38 games. Now that there is a likelihood it won't be the locals is not the time to try to change the rules.
Liverpool took two from United and Arsenal could supply the dagger in the heart when our team sfinally hook up (although, conversely, you could also get that 6-1 result you want). If you can't beat the rest of the best, should you be "the best?"
Given the amount of attention given to the Arsenal suspension/injury situation, would it be fair to say that the title is, in fact the Gooners to win or lose, with everyone else hoping for a slip up by the Highbury crew?
Also--I don't care what Lenny Kravitz sang. The expression "It ain't over 'til it's over" belongs to Peter Lawrence "Yogi" Berra, Baseball Hall of Fame catcher from the New York Yankees.
Don't be so arrogant as to assume that no other team can win the Premiership, it is only that Manchester United loses it. I've been reading at the Cafe for the entire season that this is a test of who's best over the course of 38 games. Now that there is a likelihood it won't be the locals is not the time to try to change the rules.
Liverpool took two from United and Arsenal could supply the dagger in the heart when our team sfinally hook up (although, conversely, you could also get that 6-1 result you want). If you can't beat the rest of the best, should you be "the best?"
Given the amount of attention given to the Arsenal suspension/injury situation, would it be fair to say that the title is, in fact the Gooners to win or lose, with everyone else hoping for a slip up by the Highbury crew?
Also--I don't care what Lenny Kravitz sang. The expression "It ain't over 'til it's over" belongs to Peter Lawrence "Yogi" Berra, Baseball Hall of Fame catcher from the New York Yankees.
Originally posted by R A Softlad:
<strong>Whoever wins the league, be it Liverpool or Arsenal.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
Even if we win all our remaining matches, it's still out of our hand now! United's problems lie with playing against teams with gruped defences. (Borough, liverpool etc). The long crosses are of no purpose when the opponent's central defenders and keeper are good. In such cases, the only possibility is for ground-level accurate passing and swift combinations in the opponent's penalty areas. The idea is to get the opponents to commit faults or to try to get one of our strikers in a one-to-one situation with the keeper. This is what Deportivo and Real and sometimes Bayern do.
Originally posted by FarAwayFan:
<strong>Even if we win all our remaining matches, it's still out of our hand now! United's problems lie with playing against teams with gruped defences. (Borough, liverpool etc). The long crosses are of no purpose when the opponent's central defenders and keeper are good. In such cases, the only possibility is for ground-level accurate passing and swift combinations in the opponent's penalty areas. The idea is to get the opponents to commit faults or to try to get one of our strikers in a one-to-one situation with the keeper. This is what Deportivo and Real and sometimes Bayern do.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Welcome, and good post
What we saw yesterday after Borough's goal was a flow of incessant attacks from United forcing Borough's defence to stay back. If United Giggs had scored hid goal, more goals would probably had come, unless Borough was happy with a draw. I believe that the player all very nervous and no one had a decent shot on goal.
In such situations, sometimes it is good to calm down and put some lateral passes so that the opponent's defenders get out of their penalty areas.
In such situations, sometimes it is good to calm down and put some lateral passes so that the opponent's defenders get out of their penalty areas.
Did anyone seriously expect us to lose today?? Does anyone seriously expect Arsenal to drop many points?? See the connection?? We are still ahead of both Liverpool and Arsenal in points, so with a bit of luck, and if we win every game from now on we will be champions. Its not likely, but neither was the treble! Always have faith!
Now we have to look forward and finish in top3 and get a good CL. Next year we will return, bigger and better and, I hope so, with a better defence...
Keep on hoping and dreaming...
Keep on hoping and dreaming...
I dont believe that it's all over but i do think that was the last chance we'll have to drop a single point
Chelsea will win today W'ell beat Arse at home and someone else( Spurs Maybe )can nick a point off them
Chelsea will win today W'ell beat Arse at home and someone else( Spurs Maybe )can nick a point off them
Right retards,
How about getting perspective on things, this was one game that United lost, the season is hardly over because of it.
How about getting perspective on things, this was one game that United lost, the season is hardly over because of it.
Its been a funny season yes arsenal have now got to lose the title but its a fuu=nny ald game who knows arsenal lose 1 and lose to us + we win all ours hey presto WRITE US OFF AT YOUR PERIL <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>
For some fat dipper who says that he doesn't access the net on weekends, you sure do make some timely exceptions</strong><hr></blockquote>
That was before I sold my company and set up at home.
Thanks for noticing though 'inch'...
Originally posted by Nix:
<strong>We are still ahead of both Liverpool and Arsenal in points...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not any more...
Originally posted by corelive:
<strong>arsenal lose 1 and lose to us + we win all ours hey presto...</strong><hr></blockquote>
...you're still behind Liverpool.
Originally posted by R A Softlad:
<strong>
That was before I sold my company and set up at home.
Thanks for noticing though 'inch'...
You could at least have informed us