It’s not EtH’s tactics…..the players are fecking lazy

[NZT-One]

Firstly my take on the thread: Lazy doesn't really sit with me. Not the right word to describe it. I think, our issues are a combination of things and I can't deny, that some don't seem to follow plans. Be that Rashford who looks halfarsed in some games even though, to a degree it could be plausible to relieve him of defensive work as he is/was the main outball for our team - the player who made sure, opposition cannot push up even more. On the other hand you see Bruno who sometimes seem to feel the need to press on his very own. Looks good but theres no point in doing it.

Think the main contributors are the injuries, an attempt at a very fundamental switch in tactics combined with a few players not being played in their best positions (Eriksen) which is now getting exposed and players being injured or seemingly behind in terms of fitness.

Which applies to your own claim, you have no more evidence of complacency. I actually agree with the point of yours that I quoted but you have to accept that it applies to everyone; sports managers included. Personally I don't even think that it's a case of complacency from the manager or the players, our system from preseason looked easy to exploit, there is by default too much space in the middle any team with good technicians will exploit that until we go with something more compact. In transition we need to pass the ball faster instead of so many players touching the ball 3 or 4 times before releasing it.

"our system from preseason looked easy to exploit"
it did, but not necessarily because the system just doesn't work. We didn't have all the players availble and even if, a few weeks isn't much to ingrain a big change. And I don't mean going from 4-2-3-1 to 4-1-2-3 with two AMs. What I mean is what ETH did try last season as well: Have us playing more on the front foot. Push up as a unit. It just doesn't work at the minute and injuries have stopped it from even being a possibility now.

"there is by default too much space in the middle"
Another correct observation but actually nothing too new isn't it? There were talks about a donut shape not too long ago. To me, it seems like we are heavily out of sync. While our attackers are ready and eager to push the opponents high up the pitch, the rest of the team isn't pushing up as fast, which will lead to quite some room. It made anybodies job in there even more challenging than it was already. I think, there is a chance, that this is happening right now as well and while I agree, that it is good and right to be ready to put your principles on hold for a match or two, we shouldn't just get rid of the principles alltogether.
I think, we all agree that our football has to evolve. I really don't think, there is any Manager out there who will be able to teach players like Rashford, Shaw or McTominay how to press as a unit in two or three weeks... Not because they are bad players but because they haven't had any managers at the club who would have made sure that such basic abilities would have enhanced. We basically skipped ten years of football development, fast tracking this is impossible...We have to update the teams OS. If we don't, we basically increase the risk of transfers not working out just because we are doing things that others stopped doing years ago. I agree with the fans, who want us to be more pragmatic and maybe revert back to last seasons football. But it shouldn't be for too long. We will be the ones suffering if we continue to delay making the next step. It would be really sad to see ETH fail with something, he didn't even had in mind but felt the need to do... only to keep the results a float a little longer

(Obviously I overdraw the matter to a degree to bring the point across a little better.)

 

[Stack]

Bolded answers all, but if the team isn't buying into Ten Hag, which the recent "leaks" does point to, means either they don't agree with the tactics and aren't putting in the shift or the tactics aren't working .

From what I've seen from a majority of these players I'm going with the former.

Why? Because there does seem to be a mentality of "oh I don't like playing this way or conforming to these tactics, oh so does some of the other lads. Let's make noise to the media, get him out and get a fresh start. Maybe we won't need to work as hard."

There have been players here that have outlasted 4-5 managers, that's ridiculous to trust them when I've seen nothing to suggest that they care for the club, the badge or anything other way than their paycheck.

Every year there is criticism of players not putting in the work or not working hard for the badge and the team.

So what's been the counter argument?

Leaks about the players falling out or not agreeing with the manager, if you don't agree with 4-5 different managers then maybe just maybe you are the problem.

Well thats an awful lot of players who are the problem so we must be buying mostly players who dont have the right mentality then.
Its a long list of players who people are talking about
Quite frankly though our choice of managers has been awful, Moyes, Mourinho and LVG were horrible choices, either not up to it, past it or so full of their own ego they were more interested in how they looked than how the team performed.

 

[Thom Merrilin]

Unfit can look a lot like lazy.

 

[tenpoless]

Unfit can look a lot like lazy.

As an unattractive person, I can confirm.

 

[gaffs]

It’s late and I’m tired so not the best time to be pondering the topic, but is it possible laziness is becoming intertwined with a sense of entitlement?

Sometimes get the impression certain players think they’re better than they really are just because they are wearing a United shirt. They don’t feel the need to try hard because they’ve already made it.

Sort of like a ‘how dare he shoulder me off the ball, do you not know who I am?’ type attitude. Get the same feeling when passes are overhit or a move breaks down. Rather than applaud the effort and rally the troops, like other teams do, our players’ heads seem to drop in an air of ‘why should I bother, you’re not good enough to play alongside me.’

Or could just be laziness.

Some maybe do. But why is it that is not the case at other clubs? Arsenal right now, or City. No ones standards are dropping there.

Rio always says it on his youtube show. Its all about setting the culture. I think ETH is trying to do that.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

With ETH it always felt like we are performing somewhat sub optimally, its always someone at weird instructions and positionings. Also its not like he don't have youth players to step up of the first teamers are too lazy. Whats the worse thing that can happen if he try some of our youth players at home? Lose to brighton??!!! Thats a remote possibility right?

 

[jeepers]

So why does he keep picking said supposedly lazy players, eth has had his wish in selling and buying players so surely he would have moved them on or at the very least made back up options?

You genuinely believe he didn’t want to sell McT and Maguire? Hilarious.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Same old story. Bad attitudes, egos, self entitlement. Ole was right when he said some United players think they are better than they actually are. I'm sure a few of them would rather call themselves superstars or celebrities rather than footballers. Overpaid pricks

 

[Dannn411]

Yes it's partly the players attitudes but also the tactics too. We had a formula that mostly worked last year and it is fairly obvious that we do not have the quality of personnel to effectively play otherwise. So might as well stick to the formula that at least made us competitive last year until we get the personnel in to play the way he wants to play. Refusing to adapt is what saw us on the end of some absolute hammerings last year and has seen us lose 4 games already so far this year. What is particularly frustrating is he already had examples from his first season of the perils of trying to play his own way with these players (high line, committing all but one midfielder and 2 CBs forward) yet he somehow went back to it this season. You have to learn from your mistakes and never make them again.

 

[bosskeano]

So why had a team that was putting in the effort last year, suddenly downed tools?

hahaha...i'm sure the gaffer is asking the same question. have you not watched the matches???? damn near every goal bar the Onana howler came from guys not putting in the effort to properly track players like they should have especially the midfielders

 

[didz]

Preseason was not ideal at all, and it's little wonder that fitness is an issue when the players spent as much of the summer on planes as they did on the training ground.

But I do think there is a tactical element in that our system is overly reliant on key players. If Casemiro doesn't play like 3 men possessed, we concede chances in the double digits, and if Rashford doesn't convert we struggle to get anybody else scoring. There needs to be more of a division of labour at both ends of the pitch, and the signs of that were there last season. We shouldn't need the same two players to be world class twice every single week in order to put a string of decent performances together.

 

[mu4c_20le]

hahaha...i'm sure the gaffer is asking the same question. have you not watched the matches???? damn near every goal bar the Onana howler came from guys not putting in the effort to properly track players like they should have especially the midfielders

Because it's a silly excuse when people defending the manager have nothing else to come up with. If they downed tools, they wouldn't have made the comeback against Forest. The only time it might make sense is after the Arsenal game when the whole Sancho issue started, the team was already going through a tough period, the system not working, and the manager decided to hang him out to dry and give the press headlines. That night be the moment they start doubting him.

 

[The Siege]

High pressing teams learn to ruthlessly hold possession for bits in the middle because it gives them a recovery phase. I think one of the reasons our lot looked absolutely gassed every time we play is that we're learning to be a high press team (which will have its teething issues) but are also abysmal at keeping the ball.

Some of this squad definitely doesn't deserve to wear the shirt, don't get me wrong, but we're seeing a lot of players looking incredibly tired when they have absolutely no business being that at this stage of the season. Add to that we concede a goal out of nothing, the adrenaline goes away, and we immediately fall off a cliff. It's unrealistic to expect everyone to have Bruno's bulldog-like engine.

 

[Ish]

High pressing teams learn to ruthlessly hold possession for bits in the middle because it gives them a recovery phase. I think one of the reasons our lot looked absolutely gassed every time we play is that we're learning to be a high press team (which will have its teething issues) but are also abysmal at keeping the ball.

Some of this squad definitely doesn't deserve to wear the shirt, don't get me wrong, but we're seeing a lot of players looking incredibly tired when they have absolutely no business being that at this stage of the season. Add to that we concede a goal out of nothing, the adrenaline goes away, and we immediately fall off a cliff. It's unrealistic to expect everyone to have Bruno's bulldog-like engine.

Yep and because we still don’t have an ideal back line (unable to shift maguire and get a more suitable replacement) - especially with so many injured - most importantly Varane, we sort of compensate for needing to play Lindelof/Maguire by dropping deeper with our defensive line, IMO. This not only creates huge gaps where opposition teams can cut through, but it also means that during transitions our players have a lot more ground to cover.

High pressing teams usually press as a unit, are semi decent at keeping possession/controlling the tempo & play a very high defensive line to compress space. All this allows for recovery time as well. We’re unfortunately not excelling at any of those 3 things at the moment which is causing a lot of our issues. Some of them are individuals and some are system/tactics/wrong fit.

That being said, it still pains me to see some of our players casually jogging about on the field. Does anyone perhaps have stats for distance covered, most sprints, average position of defensive line etc? I know I heard that we’re currently top (or near top) for defensive recoveries in opposition half (final third?) but at the bottom for goals (chances crested?) from turnovers/recoveries!

 

[Drainy]

Let's look at the team that started against Bayern

Onana - ETH signing

Dalot - new contract under ETH
Lindelof -
Martinez - ETH signing
Reguilon - ETH signing

Casemiro - ETH signing
Eriksen - ETH signing
Bruno - made captain by ETH

Rashford - new contract under ETH
Hoijlund - ETH new signing
Pellestri -

Only Pellestri and Lindelof don't have any real link to the manager through signings or contracts. Lindelof is far from a guaranteed starter so an opportunity to prove himself and Pellestri is a young player with an opportunity to show what he has to offer.

If this group are lazy (I don't agree) ETH can't blame it on the players and it's mostly players he's signed or given new contracts too.

Or if you watch the video the weak links in the press are Rashford and McTominay. One was our only goalscorer last season so obviously he plays, and the other we were looking to sell but injuries have made him play.

 

[norm87cro]

To a certain degree it is tactics because if you are trying (or forcing) a certain tactic (mainly the City one to play from the back and lose the ball on more than one occasion) knowing you do not have the staff for it you too should be held accountable

 

[Big Ray]

Let's look at the team that started against Bayern

Onana - ETH signing

Dalot - new contract under ETH
Lindelof -
Martinez - ETH signing
Reguilon - ETH signing

Casemiro - ETH signing
Eriksen - ETH signing
Bruno - made captain by ETH

Rashford - new contract under ETH
Hoijlund - ETH new signing
Pellestri -

Only Pellestri and Lindelof don't have any real link to the manager through signings or contracts. Lindelof is far from a guaranteed starter so an opportunity to prove himself and Pellestri is a young player with an opportunity to show what he has to offer.

If this group are lazy (I don't agree) ETH can't blame it on the players and it's mostly players he's signed or given new contracts too.

This is exactly the sort of silly that Gary Neville mentioned when he said that any Man Utd fans he knows with a brain don’t blame the manager. If someone cannot see that some of the players are not working then they are blind, there are lots of videos out there. It’s also clearer when watching from the stands as well.

I would guess Bruno and Rashford probably aren’t ten hag type players but he would be lynched if he sold them. Bruno is too erratic and rashford is as lazy as standing water. There’s no way he hasn’t asked him to not work hard as suggested by some. He is able to do it when he wants when you check his distance covered during certain matches. Maybe he’s annoyed with the sancho disciplining as well?

As for his signings for the most part they have been very good and you can also be sure, as usual the majority, were not his first choice. It’s just how we tend to roll under this ownership.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Because it's a silly excuse when people defending the manager have nothing else to come up with. If they downed tools, they wouldn't have made the comeback against Forest. The only time it might make sense is after the Arsenal game when the whole Sancho issue started, the team was already going through a tough period, the system not working, and the manager decided to hang him out to dry and give the press headlines. That night be the moment they start doubting him.

You need to make your mind up. First you call players not making an effort a “silly excuse” then immediately argue that they’ve done exactly that, after Sancho threw his toys out of the pram.

I know you’re determined to blame the manager for everything that’s gone wrong this season but surely you can do that without contradicting yourself?

 

[Wibble]

I know you’re determined to blame the manager for everything that’s gone wrong this season but surely you can do that without contradicting yourself?

The evidence says no.

 

[JPRouve]

Because it's a silly excuse when people defending the manager have nothing else to come up with. If they downed tools, they wouldn't have made the comeback against Forest. The only time it might make sense is after the Arsenal game when the whole Sancho issue started, the team was already going through a tough period, the system not working, and the manager decided to hang him out to dry and give the press headlines. That night be the moment they start doubting him.

Overall I think that our tactical setup is the cause of most of our issues but some of our players are liabilities and Sancho is one of them, he provides nothing defensively and even worse, he diligently avoids any sort of contact. Now people can't use him to explain our performances since he rightfully doesn't play, the likes of Wan Bissaka; McTominay and pre injury Shaw should follow.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The most concerning and inexplicably bad performance was definitely Wolves. No injuries/absences for alleged misdemeanours, no McTominay, and no reason for everyone in the team to not be 100% fired up and pulling in the same direction. And that was the only game so far where we didn’t even manage 10-15 minutes of good football.

Since then what’s happened has been a lot more understandable. But the Wolves performance is very difficult to explain away.

 

[saivet]

Or if you watch the video the weak links in the press are Rashford and McTominay. One was our only goalscorer last season so obviously he plays, and the other we were looking to sell but injuries have made him play.

Every manager will have to deal with weak links, whether it's pressing, finishing, or defensive actions. Part of his role is to adapt to Rashford's poor pressing or demand more out of him.

I would guess Bruno and Rashford probably aren’t ten hag type players but he would be lynched if he sold them. Bruno is too erratic and rashford is as lazy as standing water. There’s no way he hasn’t asked him to not work hard as suggested by some. He is able to do it when he wants when you check his distance covered during certain matches. Maybe he’s annoyed with the sancho disciplining as well?

As for his signings for the most part they have been very good and you can also be sure, as usual the majority, were not his first choice. It’s just how we tend to roll under this ownership.

No one has the perfect squad, not does every manager get all of their first choice targets but if you give the manager this much slack for performances there will alway be a reason outside of his control to point to. I think the general branding that the players are lazy or toxic is lazy in itself and it is the case the manager and club have contributed to that. For me the way the club is run is the biggest issue but it doesn't absolve the manager.

 

[fallengt]

So why does he keep picking said supposedly lazy players, eth has had his wish in selling and buying players so surely he would have moved them on or at the very least made back up options?

10 years later and you still blame manager because club can't sell player?

 

[SER19]

I see where people are coming from when they say 'so the new players are lazy too.' Lazy might not be the right word but think of it like a garden completely neglected and overgrown with weeds. That's where we were for most of those early years post ferguson. A manager come in like solskjaer, and does some good work, improves parts but the good is still co-existing with some of the weeds that aren't gone. It simply will not be perfect or close to it, then things turn bad with some results and the good parts are simply not well established or stable enough and the weeds and negativity take over again. New manager comes in and the cycle repeats. It's a long slow process and I feel as if a certain sort of apathy, bad ego, blame culture and disharmony is pretty deep rooted now. Things start going bad and that old legacy culture starts appearing again- leaks, blame the manager, work rate drops. The same way ferguson bred a relentless winning culture so o'shea and rafael could dominate the midfield versus arsenal, the toxic culture post ferguson works the same.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I see where people are coming from when they say 'so the new players are lazy too.' Lazy might not be the right word but think of it like a garden completely neglected and overgrown with weeds. That's where we were for most of those early years post ferguson. A manager come in like solskjaer, and does some good work, improves parts but the good is still co-existing with some of the weeds that aren't gone. It simply will not be perfect or close to it, then things turn bad with some results and the good parts are simply not well established or stable enough and the weeds and negativity take over again. New manager comes in and the cycle repeats. It's a long slow process and I feel as if a certain sort of apathy, bad ego, blame culture and disharmony is pretty deep rooted now. Things start going bad and that old legacy culture starts appearing again- leaks, blame the manager, work rate drops. The same way ferguson bred a relentless winning culture so o'shea and rafael could dominate the midfield versus arsenal, the toxic culture post ferguson works the same.

I think that’s a good description. It’s why massive, very successful clubs can have such long periods of decline. And why it’s so incredibly difficult to turn things round at those clubs. Liverpool the most obvious example. The long (and ongoing) gap between league titles at Arsenal is similar.

 

[SER19]

I think that’s a good description. It’s why massive, very successful clubs can have such long periods of decline. And why it’s so incredibly difficult to turn things round at those clubs. Liverpool the most obvious example. The long (and ongoing) gap between league titles at Arsenal is similar.

Exactly, two decades at least for each of them between titles. Liverpool especially, had some decent spells with good managers in that time. The higher points of Houllier returning trophies and a young striker winning the Ballon D'or, but even these highs cant paper over the millions of things needed to align at the same moment for success.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Exactly, two decades at least for each of them between titles. Liverpool especially, had some decent spells with good managers in that time. The higher points of Houllier returning trophies and a young striker winning the Ballon D'or, but even these highs cant paper over the millions of things needed to align at the same moment for success.

Liverpool also had some amazing players in their lean spell. Hard to see a Torres, Gerrard or Alonso in our current squad!

 

[Marwood]

We're not a lazy team on the whole.

I think you could take the performance of any team and pick moments where a player didn't track back, didn't run 100%. It happens.

It's more a lack of genuine athleticism and it just not being instinctive for certain players to track runners and that type of work.

If City aren't at the top of their game(rare I know) I've seen their midfielders and wide men suddenly look defensively weak, unable to keep up.

The middle five that played against Bayern, CB's and CM's, definitely not lazy. It's just not quick, strong or alert enough to stop an athletic team like Bayern.

 

[TomSkalle]

Tbh, the manager picks the team.
When you start a midfield with Eriksen and Casemiro against one of Europes best teams you can only sit down and pray.
Its no excuse.
And im not negative when it comes to ETH.

Anybody looking at what we had available and how we set up that game, have to question it.

Eriksen dont have the legs to play sitting midfielder.
Casemiro can only play like this every other game because of his age.

With current available players he should have used McTominey from the start (even if he had a stinker last match), pushed Eriksen up, and Bruno out right.

This is not brain surgery.
And ETH is all to blame.

 

[SER19]

Liverpool also had some amazing players in their lean spell. Hard to see a Torres, Gerrard or Alonso in our current squad!

That puts a grim perspective on where we are. Casemiro of course is a great, but at a point where he needs some real stable quality next to him. But yeah, I don't think any of our others are near that level. Maybe part of it is as simple as that too, a lack of genuine top class talent - however vague the term, definitely consistency is a part of what makes a player top class.

 

[Baneofthegame]

I don’t think in general we are a physical side, we bottle a lot of 50/50’s, lack intensity, which combined with certain players work when we don’t have the ball makes us capitulate.

Hopefully when Amrabat/Mount/Mainoo are back we can be better.

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

Okay. We've had like 5 coaches now, and all the Players and new signings are lazy?

It's the same players....

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Tbh, the manager picks the team.
When you start a midfield with Eriksen and Casemiro against one of Europes best teams you can only sit down and pray.
Its no excuse.
And im not negative when it comes to ETH.

Anybody looking at what we had available and how we set up that game, have to question it.

Eriksen dont have the legs to play sitting midfielder.
Casemiro can only play like this every other game because of his age.

With current available players he should have used McTominey from the start (even if he had a stinker last match), pushed Eriksen up, and Bruno out right.

This is not brain surgery.
And ETH is all to blame.

So McTominey was the droid ETH should have been looking for? I’m sure things would have turned out very differently had he done that. Sometimes the simplest hypothetical solutions were definitely gonna work, cause the fault just has to be who the manager is picking.

It couldn’t possibly be that the manager is doing the best with what he has available, is juggling a number of major issues Affecting the squad and they aren’t getting any breaks.

Poor old pep, couple of injuries and he’s whining like he has to use his youth squad. What ETH would give to swap problems.

 

[NZT-One]

High pressing teams learn to ruthlessly hold possession for bits in the middle because it gives them a recovery phase. I think one of the reasons our lot looked absolutely gassed every time we play is that we're learning to be a high press team (which will have its teething issues) but are also abysmal at keeping the ball.

That actually is a good and somewhat rarely made point. I also think, that I remember Klopp talking about control in his setup to balance the draining connected with they heavy-metal-spells. Question is, is keeping possession more an issue of us not being able or us not wanting. I am sure, it is a mixture of both, but difficult to say what has more shares.

The most concerning and inexplicably bad performance was definitely Wolves. No injuries/absences for alleged misdemeanours, no McTominay, and no reason for everyone in the team to not be 100% fired up and pulling in the same direction. And that was the only game so far where we didn’t even manage 10-15 minutes of good football.

Since then what’s happened has been a lot more understandable. But the Wolves performance is very difficult to explain away.

I'd say, playing the first match of the season is also a factor. You are right of course, there were no obvious negative factors and I also expected us to be a bit more on point but in pre-season, a few first teamers didn't really feature much, so I'd say, early season is something, that could get mentioned. No question though that I hoped it wouldn't be a factor though.

We're not a lazy team on the whole.

I think you could take the performance of any team and pick moments where a player didn't track back, didn't run 100%. It happens.

It's more a lack of genuine athleticism and it just not being instinctive for certain players to track runners and that type of work.

If City aren't at the top of their game(rare I know) I've seen their midfielders and wide men suddenly look defensively weak, unable to keep up.

The middle five that played against Bayern, CB's and CM's, definitely not lazy. It's just not quick, strong or alert enough to stop an athletic team like Bayern.

Uff, if you are right, thats potentially even worse than if they would be lazy

 

[Big Ray]

Every manager will have to deal with weak links, whether it's pressing, finishing, or defensive actions. Part of his role is to adapt to Rashford's poor pressing or demand more out of him.


No one has the perfect squad, not does every manager get all of their first choice targets but if you give the manager this much slack for performances there will alway be a reason outside of his control to point to. I think the general branding that the players are lazy or toxic is lazy in itself and it is the case the manager and club have contributed to that. For me the way the club is run is the biggest issue but it doesn't absolve the manager.

Really? So we have no toxic or lazy players? You need to open your eyes! Even Keane and Neville know there are toxic personalities in that changing room who throw managers under the bus and leak stuff to the press.

I seen the laziness in the flesh at the weekend and against Munich where there are two now viral examples of mctominay struggling to keep up with a referee after losing the ball and then giving a player a free run at an assist for the 4th goal. That’s not the way he plays for Scotland. If that’s not laziness / toxicity I don’t know?!! If you’ve been around a changing room like I have myself, you’ll know there are toxic people who down tools when things aren’t to their liking / personal selfish ideas. It happens and you’re in denial if you don’t think that’s what’s going on here.

 

[Doracle]

This is exactly the sort of silly that Gary Neville mentioned when he said that any Man Utd fans he knows with a brain don’t blame the manager. If someone cannot see that some of the players are not working then they are blind, there are lots of videos out there. It’s also clearer when watching from the stands as well.

I would guess Bruno and Rashford probably aren’t ten hag type players but he would be lynched if he sold them. Bruno is too erratic and rashford is as lazy as standing water. There’s no way he hasn’t asked him to not work hard as suggested by some. He is able to do it when he wants when you check his distance covered during certain matches. Maybe he’s annoyed with the sancho disciplining as well?

As for his signings for the most part they have been very good and you can also be sure, as usual the majority, were not his first choice. It’s just how we tend to roll under this ownership.

But isn’t it ETH’s signings who have been mainly underperforming this season? Casemiro looked shockingly unfit at the start of the season and still looks like he’s running through treacle. Antony was dreadful in the first couple of matches and is now out completely due to his personal issues. Eriksen can’t play the position ETH seems to want him to play anymore. Martinez is a shadow of the player he was last season and, whilst some of that can be excused given his injury, his effort levels haven’t been great. Mount was obviously very poor albeit in an admittedly very small sample size so far.

The only players who seem to be somewhat in form are Rashford, Dalot and Bruno (and Hojlund has done well so far), most of whom pre date ETH.

 

[Eli Zee]

Trailing 2nd place by 9 points. For a United team yeah that's pretty lazy.

That is the current United standard and very normal for the last decade.

 

[Melville Red]

Watching the clips of the squad training had me shaking my head. They were shown jogging around a pitch, slow wasn’t the word, all chatting and smiling, no real effort put in and it was at a snails pace, who came in last? Rashford.

I was stunned and if that was a warm up I’ll eat my hat, it really was awful, no coaches looking at them and geeing them up, it was like a bunch of school boys who knew they had been dropped from the second string, my old Army PTI’s need to be drafted in to put these cnuts through their paces.

 

[Marwood]

That actually is a good and somewhat rarely made point. I also think, that I remember Klopp talking about control in his setup to balance the draining connected with they heavy-metal-spells. Question is, is keeping possession more an issue of us not being able or us not wanting. I am sure, it is a mixture of both, but difficult to say what has more shares.


I'd say, playing the first match of the season is also a factor. You are right of course, there were no obvious negative factors and I also expected us to be a bit more on point but in pre-season, a few first teamers didn't really feature much, so I'd say, early season is something, that could get mentioned. No question though that I hoped it wouldn't be a factor though.


Uff, if you are right, thats potentially even worse than if they would be lazy

It'd be worse if we didn't have any other options

But with Varane,Amrabat, Mount and Mainoo you'd think there are options to improve physicality.

I know this, any team looking at a spine of Martinez, Lindelof, Casemiro, Bruno and Eriksen will reckon they can physically dominate us. There's no pace or zip there.

 

[stoinz]

I dont think this group of players or at least the ones that got picked including Rashford are lazy. Just some of them are not good enough. Think Neville said the same thing, he observed that this current really tried their best but just couldnt execute what ETH wanted.