ISIS in Iraq and Syria

Obama: The U.S. has poured a lot of money ($25 billion) to train Iraqi security forces. They cannot fight against terrorists.
Obama: It is ultimately up to Iraq as a sovereign nation to solve its problems.
Obama: US won't dispatch troops to Iraq; we will be reviewing a range of options to bolster the Iraqi military to address the challenges.
"There's a lack of morale, people not willing to fight"
 
Relevated said:
Obama: The U.S. has poured a lot of money ($25 billion) to train Iraqi security forces. They cannot fight against terrorists.
Obama: It is ultimately up to Iraq as a sovereign nation to solve its problems.
Obama: US won't dispatch troops to Iraq; we will be reviewing a range of options to bolster the Iraqi military to address the challenges.
"There's a lack of morale, people not willing to fight"
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This has changed massively today. There are many (many) people who are willing to fight, it was just that the wrong people were deployed in those areas.

No advances for ISIL today. They are still more than 100km away from Baghdad (Western sources on the ground), and all that talk about action near or inside Baghdad was just propaganda.

The march stopped at Samara, so they tried to go through Dyala but they're facing the Kurds there. They couldn't make further gains on either front.

I don't think the Iraqi army will need the US help. If ISIL make no gains tonight, then there is a good chance that the worst is already behind us.

Also there are no signs yet of a sectarian war which is a good thing, but in the middle East, that could happen at any moment.
 
ISIS sounds like a made up name for the bad guys in a film.
 
Kurds are in complete control of Dyala, no chance of Isis getting there.
 
Iraqi army capture an ISIS
BqCAMDWCYAAgHWH.jpg


There are many NSFW photos of the dead ISIS in clashes today, they're all over twitter but I don't think I'm allowed to post them here.
 
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Danny1982 said:
When did the Shia killed Sunnis? And where did they kill those 1700?
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ISIS said they killed 1700 in tikrit and pardoned Sunnis.

Regarding the poor treatment that Shias directed at sunnis? They'd even torture people who had names such as 'Umar', 'Abu Bakr' or 'Uthmaan' and 'Aisha'. Many people who have been abused have spoken out about it, so have many people who have had their childs killed at the hand of shia death squads. That Shia dude called out for his followers to murder and fight against the ISIS. Terrorism fighting terrorism.

Heres an article I found: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4719252.stm
Videos:
Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
More sunni deaths: http://guardianlv.com/2014/01/what-is-happening-in-iraq-14-men-killed-by-unknown-death-squad/
More sunni deaths: http://www.rferl.org/content/bomb-attack-baquba-iraq/24989145.html
Sunnis treated harshly: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/shias-dominate-sunnis-in-the-new-iraq-1.1269416
 
Suli said:
Peshmerga capture an ISIS


There are many NSFW photos of the dead ISIS in clashes today, they're all over twitter but I don't think I'm allowed to post them here.
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Yes please don't post any graphic images or videos here.
 
50 Isis killed in the past few hours by Kurdish troops, south of Kirkuk.

Also a few reports of bombing outside of Baghdad beginning. 30k odd volunteers in Baghdad are ready to defend their city, with the Iraqi army, according to twitter.
 
Relevated said:
ISIS said they killed 1700 in tikrit and pardoned Sunnis.

Regarding the poor treatment that Shias directed at sunnis? They'd even torture people who had names such as 'Umar', 'Abu Bakr' or 'Uthmaan' and 'Aisha'. Many people who have been abused have spoken out about it, so have many people who have had their childs killed at the hand of shia death squads. That Shia dude called out for his followers to murder and fight against the ISIS. Terrorism fighting terrorism.

Heres an article I found: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4719252.stm
Videos:
Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
More sunni deaths: http://guardianlv.com/2014/01/what-is-happening-in-iraq-14-men-killed-by-unknown-death-squad/
More sunni deaths: http://www.rferl.org/content/bomb-attack-baquba-iraq/24989145.html
Sunnis treated harshly: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/shias-dominate-sunnis-in-the-new-iraq-1.1269416
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Sorry buddy, but this is non-sense used by extremists to drive the country towards a sectarian war.

Just take this one for example:

14 Men Killed by Unknown Death Squad in Iraq
It seems simple enough, but that black and white explanation does not explain why there are many Sunni militia men fighting alongside government troops against Sunni insurgents right now. One answer could be that not all Sunnis are radical and they support the government because they want stability.

These attacks also do not explain why the 14 Sunni men were recently abducted and executed by supposed al-Qaeda militants dressed as government soldiers. There is currently very little information on who the slain men were (eight of the 14 were from the same family). There is no information on who their abductors were besides the fact that they were dressed in widely available military uniforms. Were they Al-Qaeda affiliated terrorists dressed like soldiers? Shia militants dressed like soldiers? Or, maybe they were actually soldiers.

Al-Qaeda has been known to carry out attacks against Sunnis, and this could just be an example of an internal feud. Equally possible is that the men were killed by a non-government Shia death squad in a revenge killing. Just as equally possible is that it was an actual military death squad.

Until more information comes out, it is impossible to make a definitive judgment on who is responsible for the deaths of those 14 men.
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And I can tell you confidently that many many Sunnis were killed by Al-Qaeda in Anbar (Sahwat) because they were siding with Al-Maliki. Just a week ago the son of the Sahwa tribes was killed in Anbar by Al-Qaeda. And even if you don't want to take my word for it, the article you posted was clearly theorizing, but made clear that it could very well be Al-Qaeda doing it.

It's just the typical propaganda, most of which if not all of it are really mere lies, that are meant to gain support for extremists among moderate Sunnis. There is no real sectarian war going right now, and actually Al-Maliki fought all the Shia militias and dissolved them and put them in prison, which is why the real sectarian war (that was triggered by destroying the Imam shrines in Samara) has ended pretty much completely in 2008.

I posted earlier a part of a TV interview with one of the Sunni members of the main Sunni party in the parliament. She was asked about her opinion about Al-Maliki and she said "personally I don't think there will be any Shia PM as kind to the Sunnis as Al-Maliki is". And yes she's from the main and biggest Sunni list, and was the first women on the Sunni list for this elections as well. But she also said that the party stance is different on him and that she will support the stance of her party even if she doesn't agree with it personally.

Believe me there is a lot of propaganda going trying to trigger a civil war and feed extremism in the region. Most of which are pure lies though.

However, what ISIL did by killing all the Shia prisoners and letting everybody else go was really disgusting. Hopefully it doesn't lead to a backlash against the Sunnis, and I don't think it will.


EDIT: Just noticed the date of that BBC article was in 2006! Dude, you're trying to justify something done now because of something that happened in 2006?! Under completely different circumstances?!

I don't even think Al-Maliki was a PM yet at the time!
 
Bro are you rawafidh or something? How can you dismiss all the torture/abuse/killings as propaganda?

Fine, I'll play along... Shia are innocent and this is all propaganda.
 
..and Danny, where did you get that The Sahwa are Al-Qaeda in Anbar. They are local tribespeople who police their own communities against Al-Qaeda and similar groups.
 
Raoul said:
..and Danny, where did you get that The Sahwa are Al-Qaeda in Anbar. They are local tribespeople who police their own communities against Al-Qaeda and similar groups.
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I said the son of the Sahwa leader was killed by Al-Qaeda. Didn't say Al-Sahwa are Al-Qaeda. They are Sunni tribes fighting Al-Qaeda with Al-Maliki.
 
Relevated said:
Bro are you rawafidh or something? How can you dismiss all the torture/abuse/killings as propaganda?

Fine, I'll play along... Shia are innocent and this is all propaganda.
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Why are you talk about all Shia? This behavior is condemned no matter who does it. When Al-Qaeda or ISIL kill the shia it's not "all the Sunnis" are doing it, which is why it's wrong to retaliate on Sunnis, and the same goes the other way. The generalization is what triggers sectarian wars and is wrong.

Before 2008, yes there was a real sectarian war going, in both directions. Fortunately it was over, because many innocent people died because of it. After 2008 not really, there hasn't been any significant sectarian killings (in both directions). Why would a top Sunni member of the parliament say Al-Maliki is the most kind Shia to Sunnis if that was the case?

ISIL didn't kill those Shia as "retaliation". It's part of their ideology to kill all Shias. The ones who did it aren't even Iraqis. Yes there is mistrust between sects in Iraq. But they don't want to kill each other like that. Sunnis live in Shia governorates and Shia live in Sunni governorates, nothing of this happened. Only when ISIL got here they did it.

However, if the killings start, in an ugly way like that, it could easily become a slippery slop and we could be heading again to another ugly sectarian war, and this won't lead to anything good.
 
Suli said:
Out of curiosity, where are you from? @Danny1982
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I have lived in a few countries (Arabic and European). Don't really want to go into the details, because I can't really say it in one word, and I don't want to share that much personal information here. (nothing personal here)

I prefer to keep it this way and just try to have good objective debates here from time to time.

And by the way it has nothing to do with this forum, or the members of this forum, which I think is a very good forum.
 
Danny1982 said:
I have lived in a few countries (Arabic and European). Don't really want to go into the details, because I can't really say it in one word, and I don't want to share that much personal information here. (nothing personal here)

I prefer to keep it this way and just try to have good objective debates here from time to time.

And by the way it has nothing to do with this forum, or the members of this forum, which I think is a very good forum.
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:lol: Next time just say "I'd rather not say".
 
On a serious note, from going through this thread,
it's Sunni extremists ISIS who hate all Shias pushing back against the Shia government and Kurds trying acheive their separate state while the government is occupied? Do both ISIS and the govt oppose Kurdish separatism? And would ISIS target Kurdish civilians like they target Shias?

Also, IIRC Saddam could be described as a secular Sunni but (again, IIRC) his army all the way down was Sunni. Would they have divided loyalties or are ISIS extreme enough to push them away?

And any chance of Iran intervening like they did for al-Assad?
 
berbatrick said:
On a serious note, from going through this thread,
it's Sunni extremists ISIS who hate all Shias pushing back against the Shia government and Kurds trying acheive their separate state while the government is occupied? Do both ISIS and the govt oppose Kurdish separatism? And would ISIS target Kurdish civilians like they target Shias?
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Not now. They are picking their fights right now. Their priority is now the Shias. But later, if they gain control over some territory, they will target anybody who disagrees with them, even the Sunnis, just like in Syria. The problem is that their ideology is built on "If you disagree with me then you're Kafir and you have to be killed (that's why some call them 'Takfiris'). But right now, their main target is the Shia (all Shia), even though they don't like the Kurds either, because their loyalty is more for their ethnicity (as Kurds) than their religious sect.
berbatrick said:
Also, IIRC Saddam could be described as a secular Sunni but (again, IIRC) his army all the way down was Sunni. Would they have divided loyalties or are ISIS extreme enough to push them away?
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If you're asking if ISIL would have done the same if Saddam was in power, no I don't think so. Saddam was actually trying to expand the Arab Sunni sect in Iraq on expense of the Shia and the Kurds, and he was fighting the Shia as a religious sect especially in the latest years (and was actively trying to make Iraq an Arab Sunni state). He also took many measures to change the demography in parts of Iraq, and he even actively promoted the Wahabi brand of Islam in some areas (which is basically the ideology of ISIL) later during his reign. So I don't think the ISIL would have minded seeing him carry on with his plans, because he was making it easier for them to gain control over Iraq in the future.

But hypothetically speaking if ISIL attacked Saddam's army at the point when Saddam was toppled (in 2003) I would say the army would still have remained loyal to Saddam. Would it have been good enough to fend off ISIL's attacks? That's a whole other issue, because the Iraqi army hasn't really been that good since the end of the Iraq-Iran war.
berbatrick said:
And any chance of Iran intervening like they did for al-Assad?
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They are actually ready to do far more if necessary. Iraq is a bigger priority for them than Syria.
 
The global political scene at the moment is very worrying.
 
@Danny1982 Isis executed 15 Kurds in Mosul yesterday and they have been fighting YPG in Syria for more than a year. It was only a few days ago that they massacred women and children from a Kurdish village after losing land from a YPG offensive.
 
Suli said:
@Danny1982 Isis executed 15 Kurds in Mosul yesterday and they have been fighting YPG in Syria for more than a year. It was only a few days ago that they massacred women and children from a Kurdish village after losing land from a YPG offensive.
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Of course. They even destroyed a church in Mosul, and many of the people who fled Mosul are Kurds and Christians.

I was talking about making targeting those civilians a public statement and target, right now, in Iraq. On the ground they will target anybody, and they specifically don't like Kurds because the Kurds don't share their extreme ideologies or their feelings towards the Shia, so they know they will never be their allies.

By the way, if what I'm reading is accurate, the Kurds are now even offering the government in Iraq some help in areas that are not really Kurdish or that important to the Kurds. Is that true?
 
What areas in particular are you referring to, if you know? I haven't heard anything form the news channels on TV or on twitter but I could see them helping to resecure Mosul.

Also, new update on the situation in Iraq:
BqCcGJsIAAAbaK5.png:large
 
I was talking about some areas in Dyala (particularly the ones inside the red circle in your map) and Mosul (They have already seized an area on the Syrian borders - Rabee'a crossing).

By the way it looks like the Iraqi government has steadied the ship a bit, and they've already started making gains now. They have regained complete control over Alduloiya, Al-Ishaqi and some areas in Tikrit.

They have also killed the son of Izzat Al-Duri (Saddam's vice president) among fifty other militants in an airstrike in Dyala.

Also it doesn't look like Baghdad is in much danger right now, and it also doesn't look like we're heading to a sectarian war at the moment.
 
No idea, but I do know the next areas to be liberated by the Kurds are Mandali and Hawijah (near Kirkuk).
BqFPP01CIAEzj55.jpg
 
Video of Peshmerga clashing with ISIS near the Kirkuk front
 
I was in in Kirkuk in 2011 and recall the Asayish militia as being quite effective. Not sure how much they're involved today.
 
I reckon this is Barzani's best chance to take all of Kirkuk. Exploit the chaos and take over the Sunni and Turkomen areas in the central and southern parts. Nothing the central government can do at this point.
 
Raoul said:
I reckon this is Barzani's best chance to take all of Kirkuk. Exploit the chaos and take over the Sunni and Turkomen areas in the central and southern parts. Nothing the central government can do at this point.
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I believe Kirkuk is already completely under Peshmerga's control.
 
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