ISIS in Iraq and Syria

Kaos said:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/27/turkey-shells-kurdish-held-village-in-syria

So the Turks who've idly watched ISIS from across the border are now carrying out airstrikes and shelling attacks on the very Kurds who serve as the main fighting force against ISIS in Syria and Northern Iraq. Erdogan might as well raise that black flag in Ankara :wenger:

@Uzz hows that Saudi-Turkey-Qatar Sunni union coming along? They must have missed the memo that Kurds are Sunnis.
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Turkey confronting IS is better than Turkey not confronting IS. But, yes, they are idiotic if they are attacking YPG as well. I don't think the evidence is as concrete as you think yet, though.
 
U.S.-Turkey deal aims to create de facto ‘safe zone’ in northwest Syria[URL='https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/new-us-turkey-plan-amounts-to-a-safe-zone-in-northwest-syria/2015/07/26/0a533345-ff2e-4b40-858a-c1b36541e156_story.html']
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...533345-ff2e-4b40-858a-c1b36541e156_story.html

My favourite bit:

"Once the area is cleared, the plan is to give control to as-yet-unidentified moderate Syrian rebel groups. The United States and Turkey have differing interpretations as to which groups can be defined as “moderate.”"

Basically, that means that Turkey favours al-Qaeda aligned Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham, and the Americans are still trying to figure out who the 'moderates' are.

Also, the Kurds:

"The agreement will also shift the dynamics in other parts of northern Syria in ways that will work to Turkey’s advantage. Turkey has watched with alarm as Syrian Kurds have become the beneficiary of U.S. strikes east of the Euphrates.

“After the capture of Tal Abyad with significant U.S. assistance, the next step would have been the Kurds moving west of the Euphrates and taking this large amount of territory,” said Soner Cagaptay of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

“This helped accelerate the deal. Now you’re going to see massive aerial bombing in the region, and it will not end up in the hands of Kurds exclusively,” he said.

The head of the Kurdish group that has been benefiting from the U.S. strikes expressed concern that the plan for the zone would eventually lead to the entry of Turkish troops in the area.

Saleh Muslim, leader of Syria’s Democratic Union Party (PYD), has frequently accused Turkey of supporting the Islamic State to counter Kurdish influence and said that any Turkish forces entering Syria would be viewed as “invaders.”

The PYD and its military wing, the YPG, are allied with the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), whose bases in Iraq were hit by Turkish airstrikes early Saturday. The PKK wants to establish a Kurdish state in a region that currently encompasses parts of Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Iran. Both the United States and Turkey have labeled it a terrorist organization."
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Safe zone:

CK6vp4rUwAAcmSP.jpg


Turkey won't let YPG to connect Jazira, Kobane & Efrin (Rojava Cantons)



A larger number of rebels that American officials deem relatively moderate have been trained in a covert C.I.A. program, but on the battlefield they are often enmeshed or working in concert with more hard-line Islamist insurgents.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/w...r-isis-from-strip-of-northern-syria.html?_r=2


Moderate rebels :lol:
They never existed.
 
So it seems Turkey's tactic here was to wait for ISIS to clear out the Kurds, that's failed as the Kurds pushed them back and gained ground, so now Turkey are jumping in to create this 'buffer zone' to stop Kurds reinforcing their gains in Northern Syria.
 
Kaos said:
So it seems Turkey's tactic here was to wait for ISIS to clear out the Kurds, that's failed as the Kurds pushed them back and gained ground, so now Turkey are jumping in to create this 'buffer zone' to stop Kurds reinforcing their gains in Northern Syria.
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I thought they were bombing ISIS and the PKK ?
 
Raoul said:
I thought they were bombing ISIS and the PKK ?
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Their 'bombing campaign' against ISIS has resulted in a couple of potshots against them, mostly out of retaliation for them killing a Turkish soldier. Its not just the PKK they're bombing. YPG units have been under attack by them in the last 24 hours.

Even if they were only singling out the PKK, its still counter-productive considering they make up a substantial element of anti-ISIS forces, by bombing them you're essentially swaying the battle in ISIS' favour.

Furthermore there's the timing too. They're happy to sit back in their front-row seats and watch massacres unveil a few hundred metres away, but as soon as Kurds start making gains, there's this sudden need for them to enforce a buffer zone. Funny that.
 
I doubt the Turks are running interference for ISIS here since they are allowing the US to use Incirlik, which is just outside Adana, to bomb ISIS positions. This will make it much easier than having to fly sorties from the Persian Gulf.
 
MUFAN79 said:
Turkey won't let YPG to connect Jazira, Kobane & Efrin (Rojava Cantons)
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The area in question though is not majority Kurdish at all - it's mostly Arab and has been in opposition hands for ages now, the IS having only recently captured it. It was never realistic for the Kurds to connect their three areas, but unfortunately many of the YPG supporters I see believe it is their right to do so, no matter what.
 
My GF called me yesterday and there were sounds of screams in the background, she told me it was Al-Nusra fighters whipping some people and she was in tears and stuff.
 
what legal right does the us have to train and send irregular soldiers into another country in the first place ?
 
VidaRed said:
what legal right does the us have to train and send irregular soldiers into another country in the first place ?
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The funny thing is everytime they've done it its either failed spectacularly (e.g Bay of Pigs) or has ended up backfiring on them (Mujahadeen in the 80s).

Who wants to bet that these captured US-trained rebels will be seen again as Al Nusra/ISIS fighters within a few months?
 
VidaRed said:
what legal right does the us have to train and send irregular soldiers into another country in the first place ?
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I presume because they recognise the moderate rebel resistance rather than assads so they treat it as training a government whose interests are alined with their own?
though I can see it ending up with it all backfiring again
 
Turkish-American deal already falling apart - today America are bombing Jabhat al-Nusra in response to Nusra's arrest of those American-trained 'moderates' mentioned above. Kind of awkward since the whole point of Turkey's recent push into Syria was to have Nusra replace ISIS along that stretch of the border.
 
If the plan was to let ISIS form, it could turn out to be a brilliant long play.

Short term, lots of terror and chaos, Syria weakened.

Long term, could see a consolidation of Islamic States against ISIS and radicalism in general as they see the threat it poses. If that were to happen, it would go a long way to clamping down on radicalism. It won't be the US or its allies doing it, it will be Muslims doing it which is a better result for everyone.

Even if that is the plan, who the feck knows what will happen. The area is so volatile and unstable, ISIS might die and something worse could emerge.
 
Nucks said:
If the plan was to let ISIS form, it could turn out to be a brilliant long play.

Short term, lots of terror and chaos, Syria weakened.

Long term, could see a consolidation of Islamic States against ISIS and radicalism in general as they see the threat it poses. If that were to happen, it would go a long way to clamping down on radicalism. It won't be the US or its allies doing it, it will be Muslims doing it which is a better result for everyone.

Even if that is the plan, who the feck knows what will happen. The area is so volatile and unstable, ISIS might die and something worse could emerge.
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That is just nonsense. There is no evil master plan. Furthermore your vision simply doesn´t match up with reality. SA isn´t stopping to spread fundamentalist readings of the Islam and radical shia militias are gaining more influence.
 
Croatian hostage Tomislav Salopek beheaded by ISIS.. :(

Maybe it sounds too simple or naive but if NATO or USA to be more precise really wanted to destroy ISIL they could have already do it..
 
Reports today that Baghdadi himself took that American hostage Kayla Mueller as his, eh, concubine. Don't know what to make of that.
 
2cents said:
Reports today that Baghdadi himself took that American hostage Kayla Mueller as his, eh, concubine. Don't know what to make of that.
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Its apparently true according to US intelligence as well as a couple of Yazidi girls who escaped captivity.
 
We went into Iraq on a false premise, and we left it in a fragile state. We helped create this situation. Why were we so quick to go in on the ground along with the whole shock and awe stuff, yet we appear to be letting this happen?
 
Livvie said:
We went into Iraq on a false premise, and we left it in a fragile state. We helped create this situation. Why were we so quick to go in on the ground along with the whole shock and awe stuff, yet we appear to be letting this happen?
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Sadly, I agree although I don't think there will be another invasion after all the 2nd guessing following the first one. ISIS will continue to do their thing in Iraq and Syria until there is a viable ground force who can root them out, which neither Iraq nor Syria have at the moment.
 
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