ISIS in Iraq and Syria

Sir Matt said:
I was asking with regards to airstrikes on Raqqa since it's the capital.
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You'll still be hitting children and the like, regardless of the level of support they have.
 
With the air strikes being conducted by the Egyptian military, we might want to add Libya to the thread title. A former head of MI6 is calling for a debate on whether the UK should consider putting boots on the ground over there.
 
@2cents I read that article briefly last night but there seems to be a lot of misinformation in there. To say they are following the prophetic methodology, meticulously or otherwise, isn't correct. The election of the caliph wasn't done in the correct way, there is no recognised Shura (Council) and the Shura play a paramount role in all Sharia matters anyway, there was no election...and these are just bits that came to mind from reading briefly last night. I wouldn't use that article as a beacon of information (I'll have a more in depth read later today).

To answer the question 'what ISIS wants', well, what I believe is they're to force certain prophecies about the End of Days to occur now, which is something that article alluded to.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
With the air strikes being conducted by the Egyptian military, we might want to add Libya to the thread title. A former head of MI6 is calling for a debate on whether the UK should consider putting boots on the ground over there.
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US population is wanting boots on the ground as well. The numbers are on the upswing. They've already forgotten what happens in this scenario. They are probably imaging the first days of the Iraq war rather than the realities later in the war.
 
Nice documentary following the Peshmerga around a few of the frontlines. Also interviews with those that have fled ISIS, and even those who are going to ISIS controlled land.

 
There's no noble side in the middle east. There's no noble side in politics in general. Bringing religion - whichever religion- into all this shit is the worse of the lot religiously, since you're lying in the name of God for the sake of earthly power and riches !
 
Avatar said:
There's no noble side in the middle east. There's no noble side in politics in general. Bringing religion - whichever religion- into all this shit is the worse of the lot religiously, since you're lying in the name of God for the sake of earthly power and riches !
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Hey Avatar, how is it going? ;)
 
senorgregster said:
US population is wanting boots on the ground as well. The numbers are on the upswing. They've already forgotten what happens in this scenario. They are probably imaging the first days of the Iraq war rather than the realities later in the war.
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I'm not sure that i concur with the Iraq comparison: the political dynamic in Libya has long been a precarious one and the insidious creep of IS or its affiliates should rightly be a concern for Europe. Air support of the kind that Egypt is providing may soon need to be contemplated. If such is acceptable in Iraq at present, why not here?
 
ISIS video with different subtitles. NSFW subtitles, but hilarious.
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The Islamic State: A Video Introduction with Aaron Zelin

 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
I'm not sure that i concur with the Iraq comparison: the political dynamic in Libya has long been a precarious one and the insidious creep of IS or its affiliates should rightly be a concern for Europe. Air support of the kind that Egypt is providing may soon need to be contemplated. If such is acceptable in Iraq at present, why not here?
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I was referring to ground troops (boots on the ground).
 
@Avatar

I read here that AJ recycled photos of dead Lybian kids in a report on alleged civilian deaths in those Egyptian air force raids in retaliation for the beheadings of the 21 Egyptians. Were there confirmed civilian casualties in those attacks? What's the general public sentiments towards AJ?
 
senorgregster said:
US population is wanting boots on the ground as well. The numbers are on the upswing. They've already forgotten what happens in this scenario. They are probably imaging the first days of the Iraq war rather than the realities later in the war.
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The realities being nation building with a committed insurgency? I'm generally very skeptical of boots on the ground but I'm having trouble seeing the parallels here.
 
Eboue said:
The realities being nation building with a committed insurgency? I'm generally very skeptical of boots on the ground but I'm having trouble seeing the parallels here.
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Unwinnable wack a mole battle that will result in the deaths of many US soldiers who aren't really trained for these scenarios to begin with. That's the only parallel I'm making. I think the general public are so far removed from the realities of this new type of war they almost look forward to war. They'll sit in their living rooms watching the updates on CNN whereas soldiers die and their families suffer. In the meantime the collateral damage will provide superb recruitment videos for the next hot spot. Rinse-repeat.
 
Suli said:
ISIS video with different subtitles. NSFW subtitles, but hilarious.
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:lol: Just saw this
 
Pogue Mahone said:
http://t.co/YteXsXC1al

This is a very comprehensive and interesting read for anyone who wants to know a bit more about what the feck ISIS is all about.
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I always think that articles such as these, when making sweeping statements, should provide footnotes or a form of in-text citation. I'd like to know the sources of any journalist purporting to be justified in taking such an authoritative stance on such a complex issue.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
I always think that articles such as these, when making sweeping statements, should provide footnotes or a form of in-text citation. I'd like to know the sources of any journalist purporting to be justified in taking such an authoritative stance on such a complex issue.
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Most of what he writes is based on interviews cited in the article.

Relevated said:
Ibrahim Awads (Abu bakr al baghdadi) detainee report

http://www.scribd.com/doc/256164952/Baghdadi-Detainee-File
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So the guy was a 'secretary' ten years ago, now he's the caliph. Yet he's surrounded by ex-Ba'thist officers formerly of the Saddam regime. Hard to believe that al-Baghdadi is the one actually calling the shots.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
http://t.co/YteXsXC1al

This is a very comprehensive and interesting read for anyone who wants to know a bit more about what the feck ISIS is all about.
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Here's an interesting response to that Atlantic article:

Enough about Islam: Why religion is not the most useful way to understand ISIS

http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/order-from-chaos/posts/2015/02/18-enough-about-islam-berger

A new article about ISIS in The Atlantic has reignited the perennial debate over the relationship between jihadist terrorism and the religion of Islam.

The article, by Graeme Wood, repeatedly emphasizes the “Islamic” in Islamic State, calling out what it describes as “well-intentioned but dishonest campaign to deny the Islamic State’s medieval religious nature.”

“The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic.Very Islamic,” Wood writes.

The Ku Klux Klan is also white. Very white. The problem with framing discussions of extremism in this manner is that, for many people, it extends into causality and a too-intimate merging of a mainstream demographic with the identity-based extremists who claim to be its exclusive guardians.

Wood’s piece rolls out, coincidentally, the same week that the White House convenes a massive summit on countering violent extremism (CVE), which is uncoincidentally also focused on Muslims and Islam, albeit with gentle but disingenuous disclaimers. Actions speak louder than words, and the White House’s CVE strategy shows it is clearly only interested in tackling Muslim extremism.

What is the relationship between Christianity and Christian Identity? What does being German mean to Nazi ideology? What about the neo-Nazi movement Golden Dawn, a Greek identity movement heavily influenced by German Nazism? Should we understand that as German or Greek? How does Hinduism inform Abhinav Bharat, and how does Abhinav Bharat inform our understanding of Hinduism?

The 969 Movement in Myanmar is led by a Buddhist monk, and its very name refers to the Buddha and his teachings. It is very Buddhist. But is its xenophobia very Buddhist? Is a graduate-level understanding of Buddhism our only path to understanding the persecution of Muslims in Myanmar?

These are complicated issues, of course. Whiteness and white supremacy are, in fact, intertwined, and it was Germany that gave birth to the Nazi movement. Islamic extremists arise from the Muslim world, and there is no question that a variety of conditions in the Muslim world have contributed to the problem.

Understanding whiteness is relevant to understanding white supremacy, just as understanding Islam is relevant to jihadism. And to be sure, religion matters to ISIS. A lot. But the concept of an exclusive identity matters far more, to the point that ISIS will engage in virtually unlimited theological gymnastics to justify it.

For identity-based extremist groups, one function of extreme religious observance is to serve as an identity marker, a signal to establish who is part of the in-group and who is part of the out-group.

Religion is therefore of primal importance in the narrative created by an extremist group’s adherents, but a group’s extremism does not naturally proceed from its claimed religious basis.

While radicalization is a multifaceted process, with many dimensions and attendant complexities, the establishment of an exclusionary identity group is a nearly universal characteristic, whether the extremists are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu or Buddhist, and whether the extremists are religious, racial, or nationalist.

It’s important, even critical, to understand how ISIS’s religious beliefs inform its actions, particularly its apocalyptic elements, which again help distinguish it from mainstream religiosity. Millenarian sects may (or may not) rely on religious texts as importance sources, but their defining quality, and what makes them dangerous, is an unshakeable belief that history is coming to an end.

Millenarian beliefs are often wedded to identity-based extremism through the narrative device of a chosen group that will triumph in an apocalyptic war or survive an apocalyptic disaster. Again, the traits of these groups are remarkably consistent across a variety of belief structures. Their commonality is their Millenarianism, not the theological background from which those End Times beliefs are derived.

To understand and counter ISIS’s threat and appeal, frame it properly. Identity-based extremism and millenarian apocalyptic cults provide a far more useful framework for understanding ISIS than Islam does.
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2cents said:
Most of what he writes is based on interviews cited in the article.
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No, it isn't. One example "Bin Laden viewed his terrorism as a prologue to a caliphate he did not expect to see in his lifetime" -- whilst this may be true, where is the evidence behind the assertion? There are a myriad of other instances of general sweeping statements taken for granted as representing fact that I can't be bothered to quote at the moment.
 
Am I dreaming or do we now officially have ISIS units in Libya able to kidnap and execute Christians and any other non-ISIS people?
 
Mihajlovic said:
Am I dreaming or do we now officially have ISIS units in Libya able to kidnap and execute Christians and any other non-ISIS people?
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They have a whole province. After Iraq and Syria I'd say they're most powerful in Libya and maybe Egypt too now.
 
Caliphs during early years of Islam thrived on supporting multiculturalism, science, innovation, learning and culture. This is in complete contrast to ISIS' violent puritanism. ISIS wish to run an oppressive, intolerant, ultra-conservative state which is in complete contrast to the article posted by @Pogue Mahone which says it's ideals are to replicate early years of Islam.

PS: "Real" Caliphs don't hide and certainly should not be elusive out of fear. If he claims to be a Caliph he should only ever fear God.

"Fear God and you will have no cause of fearing anyone." Ali, the 4th Caliph (RA)
 
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Is this real?
 
Sultan said:
Caliphs during early years of Islam thrived on supporting multiculturalism, science, innovation, learning and culture. This is in complete contrast to ISIS' violent puritanism. ISIS wish to run an oppressive, intolerant, ultra-conservative state which is in complete contrast to the article posted by @Pogue Mahone which says it's ideals are to replicate early years of Islam.

PS: "Real" Caliphs don't hide and certainly should not be elusive out of fear. If he claims to be a Caliph he should only ever fear God.

"Fear God and you will have no cause of fearing anyone." Ali, the 4th Caliph (RA)
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I think ISIS would have had a lot more support if they were less conservative, as you said


edit - you didnt say theyd have more support but you said about them being conservative.
 
Mihajlovic said:
Am I dreaming or do we now officially have ISIS units in Libya able to kidnap and execute Christians and any other non-ISIS people?
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To ISIS, any Muslim not following their narrow narrative of Islam is worthy of execution. Christians are low on their hated list.
 
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Relevated said:
I think ISIS would have had a lot more support if they were less conservative, as you said


edit - you didnt say theyd have more support but you said about them being conservative.
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They should have no support. You lose all respect and credibility once you commit such atrocities which have been done by ISIS.

PS: You can't claim to be a Caliph by your own accord. @Uzz stated above there needs to be a Shura (consultation) to be declared a Caliph.
 
Sultan said:
PS: You can't claim to be a Caliph by your own accord. @Uzz stated above there needs to be a Shura (consultation) to be declared a Caliph.
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What's your view of the post-Rashidun caliphs (i.e. the Umayyads and Abbasids) @Sultan?
 
Sultan said:
Apologies I've not really studied that part of Islamic history.
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No worries, was just wondering how those caliphs are perceived, since they inherited the position from their fathers instead of by Shura as with the first four.
 
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